Jurassic Park/World megathread - Spared no expense.

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Best jp character

  • Dr Grant

  • Dr Malcom

  • Ellie sattler

  • Owen grady

  • Claire dearing

  • Roland tembo

  • Robert muldoon

  • Paul kirby

  • John Hammond


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Was it? Did it have a little black girl doing a parallel bar routine on suspiciously spaced pipes in order to kick a raptor and save the day? Did it have T-Rex running through a city like Godzilla?

The Lost World is total ass. It's throughly watchable because Spielberg directed it, but all the good scenes were cribbed from the book, and they didn't crib much from the book, unfortunately.
Lost World was really bad. I liked 3 more. I loved JP the book, then liked the movie as much as any movie can be after a good book.

Lost World the book sucked. It has a few good descriptions of the victims being eaten by dinos, but that's it and none of that went into the movie. Terrible. JP3 was 'ok'. JP1 - JW -JP3 are my ranking from great to ok.. JP2 was awful, and I only skimmed Fallen Kingdom and Dominion and were painful. Going to skip this entirely it seems.
 
Everything else in your post is spot on but I disagree with this point. I think Nedry, being a high-level programmer, definitely thought about such details. Chaos implies that there are too many variables to factor, not that the one factoring them is negligent of them.

Nedry wasn't fleeing the island, he was handing off the embryos. He clearly had a follow-through plan to cover his ass we never got to see. Nedry could've told Hammond to fuck off and left long before this point but we must assume that like Hammond in the book he threatened to black-list Nedry if he did so. Obviously in that situation you aren't going to commit a major crime, to be fair Nedry may have had a right to break his contract if the scope of his job continued to expand beyond what he agreed to.

So I'm assuming Nedry was going to frame the theft on someone in the lab, feign innocence and use his superior tech knowledge to cover his trail. $1.5 was a lot of money back then but if Nedry was a Cambridge-level programmer he'd be able to earn more than that over his career. I suspect this was just to get back what he felt Hammond owed him.

The storm is the main variable he overlooked. Had he done his plan an hour earlier (as he may have intended) it'd likely have worked. The dino's got all riled up cause of the storm, without that they probably wouldn't have torn down the fences (Rex seems to have left the paddock to investigate the stalled vehicles--as them if they needed a hand or change a spare tire.)

The visitors were the other chaotic element since Nedry likely didn't know about them until AFTER he got the cryocan and was basically forced to make his move. Even then it seems like he did make some attempts to work around them as best as he could.
This is nearly all book stuff that got left out of the movie but

Nedry didn't consider that as soon as they realized the fences were off, Muldoon or someone would have said 'let's use one of the two gas powered jeeps we have (that Nedry took to get to the dock) (Harding had the other one) to go pick up Grant and the rest in case we have trouble fixing this shit quick.' Nedry didn't know that you couldn't shut off the keylogger and other safety systems except by manually flipping switches on the main circuit board. Nedry didn't consider that someone might see him entering the garage. A security guard did, and said so. Nedry didn't consider that his fat fingerprints would be all over the lab door handle, the embryo storage room door handle, and the embryo fridge door handle (movie too, he isn't wearing gloves in either the book or the movie). Nedry didn't consider that as soon as the system went fucky wucky, before he could have possibly got back, that everyone would go FUCKFUCKFUCK WHERE'S THE COMPUTER GUY FIND HIM NOWNOWNOW. Nedry didn't consider the temperature logs of the embryo fridge (this is how Wu discovers someone was in there, the computer recorded a temperature spike when Nedry opened the fridge door), and even if he did alter or delete the logs, there'd still be embryos missing and they'd freak out trying to find out who took them. With his fat fingerprints all over places he had no business being

When Arnold tells security to find Nedry, the guard asks him if Nedry is the fat guy. Arnold says yes, he's a "fat slob." His workstation is a pigsty. This all implies that Nedry is as sloppy as everyone else. Admittedly these are almost all book things not movie things
Lost World the book sucked.
I liked the book a little bit but it was very obviously Crichton going through the motions, so his usual writing flaws were magnified. Doc Thorne was the only good character imo
 
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Lost World the book sucked. It has a few good descriptions of the victims being eaten by dinos, but that's it and none of that went into the movie.
The most iconic scene in the film, the accordion trailer complex dangling from the cliff sequence, was taken directly from the book, sir. As well as the other, meager good elements in the movie, like the mercenaries and the final baddie death scene.

And it had cool, insane ideas like the "chameleon" dinos towards the end of the book. Even if the book sucks (it's been well over two decades since I read it), it is certainly more interesting than the movie. The Lost World has to be one of the worst films of Spielberg's career.
 
The most iconic scene in the film, the accordion trailer complex dangling from the cliff sequence, was taken directly from the book, sir. As well as the other, meager good elements in the movie, like the mercenaries and the final baddie death scene.

And it had cool, insane ideas like the "chameleon" dinos towards the end of the book. Even if the book sucks (it's been well over two decades since I read it), it is certainly more interesting than the movie. The Lost World has to be one of the worst films of Spielberg's career.
The movie was so bad, they had a Harry Knowles type fat long redhaired insert in it.

I just didn't like the book either. And when I saw the movie, the film broke (thank God film projection is dead) during the trailer scene, so that made it even worse. Biggest disappointments movie and book for me after such a great intro with the first ones.

Even Koepp getting eating in LW's San Diego dumb crap at the end in a bit didn't make up for it. Terrible movie and it's really down there with Spielberg's worse for sure. Ebert's comments on how they had to do their big zoo announcement in the middle of the night to cover the FX was spot on. Just a mess.
 
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This is why most if not all directors need a tard wrangler, because this Gareth fellow sounds exactly like someone who has interesting ideas that may not be good so he needs to be reigned in. Good example might be George Lucas. Reigned in he makes the original trilogy, no tard wrangling and you get the prequels. Movies are gems, they need to have the ugly rock cut away from it and if you don't you just get garbage.
I take back a lot of what I said about the movie being bad. David Koepp started on the script in 2023 and finished it in 3 months. He turned it in and it sat on the back burner until 2024. The preproduction didn't start until January of last year. The entire movie was made in less than a year. Gareth Edwards deserves a lot of credit for making that shit storm even barely passable. Especially since I'm sure they called David for questions but it sat on the back burner for nearly a year and he probably wasn't as fresh on it by then. I'm sure the dumber moments were studio mandates Gareth had to cram in. Remember, Gareth is the guy Disney had to ask to tone down his Star Wars movie because it was too heavy and bloody. If he wants a decent kill count, he'll make it happen. Every dumb decision in this movie is 1000% the fault of the studio for rushing this out the door. It's a miracle this movie is raking in as much money as it is. The fact it's not complete shit is worthy of applause alone.
 
This means that the identity of the movie franchise is existentially chained to the dinosaurs being overtly majestic and awe inspiring and all kinds of positive shit and everything remaining decidedly PG-13 at worst because of how well this all worked in the first movie and how it unfortunately made a fuckbucket of cash with the Jurassic World reboot, which means that any and all execs involved will move heaven and earth to make 1000% sure this shit is adhered to by the writers and directors, and the writers and directors themselves are all too often just lost in trying to emulate the OG either in total movie concept or just in aesthetics and vibes.

I know that by this point harping on about how edgy and dark n shit the original novel was is long since passe, especially given the spree of shitty to (very rarely) mid analog horror fanfics of the franchise since then, but honestly a whole lot of the failed sequel concepts and synopses would have almost certainly worked out a whole lot better if the franchise had never been burdened by the Spielbergian family friendly legacy of the first movie with the dinosaurs depicted as horrifyingly dangerous and mutated walking abortions that are all functionally psychopaths due to how fucked their brain chemistry was from birth and how they received zero socialisation growing up, and the various attempts at reviving the "Jurassic Park" concept in-universe being ever more cynical ploys to wallpaper over the horror and risks under the assumption that so long as they add an extra security gimmick then they can make shit safe enough to become profitable.
I don't think the identity of the film franchise is necessarily tied to the dinosaurs being overtly majestic. I think the bigger issue is that they don't allow the franchise to evolve and tell the story that needs to be told. The things in the first film work because it is the first film. There is something majestic and awe inspiring about seeing these creatures for the first time. Same thing with there not being a lot of weapons in the first film: it is okay to have this story where it is hard to survive as you are thrown to the mercy of the predator dinosaurs.

You can't however replicate that though with every following film. It reminds me of one of the critiques that was made about the Christopher Reeve Superman films: each film that followed the first tried too hard to recapture the magic that the first film brought with it. Namely by having that same scene with Superman taking Lois Lane flying because in the first film that was a mystical moment. Stories need to have a beginning, middle and ending. Same thing for film franchises. The story is going to have to evolve with each film, you can't just tread water with what the first film did. One of the reason why remakes oftentimes are so poorly received is that you can't capture the same magic in a bottle twice.

I think what gets under peoples skin about this franchise is that there is an obviously good three or four film structure that would make for a great film franchise, but they have never allowed this series to follow the course that needs to be taken. They got stuck in the mold that the first film set and have not been able to themselves free from it, instead just flailing around.
Lost World was really bad. I liked 3 more. I loved JP the book, then liked the movie as much as any movie can be after a good book.

Lost World the book sucked. It has a few good descriptions of the victims being eaten by dinos, but that's it and none of that went into the movie. Terrible. JP3 was 'ok'. JP1 - JW -JP3 are my ranking from great to ok.. JP2 was awful, and I only skimmed Fallen Kingdom and Dominion and were painful. Going to skip this entirely it seems.
The Lost World encapsulates a lot of the problems with the franchise: insufferable characters that you want to see die, lackluster action, repeating the same thing with the same dinosaurs you saw in the last film. On top of that it made the critical blunder of actually have the world inside the film universe be competent and realize these things have to be quarantined to keep humanity safe.

While smart, that decision right there removes any possible subsequent films being interesting since they will once again be centered around the island.
The premise of this movie, as I mentioned in a previous post, is simply another affirmation to me that the plot of Fallen Kingdom was an attempt to jump the shark with audiences, and the current generation of movie writers are not really smart or creative enough to do anything of any real substance with the premise of “dinosaurs alive in the real world”. This is why Dominion and Rebirth, despite taking place in the “Neo-Jurassic Age”, are still essentially dinosaur thrillers that take place on an island (in Dominion: an isolated valley in the Dolomites; functionally an island, and in Rebirth: wherever the hell this island is), even though the original island of Nublar has been done away with. The plot of this movie could easily have taken place on Nublar or Sorna, but it can’t have taken place there now because Sorna was “cleaned out”, and Nublar was destroyed for no good literary reason so that dinosaurs can be forced onto the mainland as a plot device, even though they aren’t really being used in that fashion anyway. So instead this movie takes place within a facility that has no logical reason to exist where it does and only creates more plot holes and continuity errors within the existing franchise.
The problem with the Jurassic World film trilogy is that it largely once again just repeated what the first three films without any of the charm being present. It danced around the idea of giving us what we always wanted to see but never actually did it. The concept of Jurassic Park presents an interesting concept that promotes a grand problem: what happens when creatures whose extinction enabled us to become the dominant species of the planet return to life?

They have never allowed these films to actually fully explore that concept. It seemed like Fallen Kingdom and Dominion were actually going to do just that, but they once again neutered these films.
 
Was it? Did it have a little black girl doing a parallel bar routine on suspiciously spaced pipes in order to kick a raptor and save the day? Did it have T-Rex running through a city like Godzilla?
The T-Rex being there was in fact a good scene and wasn't there randomly. Animals escaping their enclosures ain't rare and of course these people would completely fuck up the transportation of a dinosaur.

Nor did it have them randomly yammering about their divorce troubles while literally in one of the most dangerous places in the universe.
A constant in these movies is that people lack respect for the dinosaurs and how dangerous they are. Remember that the reason they're there in first place is that they thought it was a good idea to go to the island. Like, the mom was ok with the new boyfriend taking her son to an island full of dinosaurs for some fun. I'm sure they thought that having Alan there would guarantee that they'd be safe just because he didn't die the first time he was there.
 
A constant in these movies is that people lack respect for the dinosaurs and how dangerous they are. Remember that the reason they're there in first place is that they thought it was a good idea to go to the island. Like, the mom was ok with the new boyfriend taking her son to an island full of dinosaurs for some fun. I'm sure they thought that having Alan there would guarantee that they'd be safe just because he didn't die the first time he was there.
Oh no I got that part of the theme but it was mentioned previously that JP got more and more people who you wanted to see die horribly show up. This couple did not die horribly. They got many other people killed on a desperate boondoggle. While sympathetic every time it was brought up, even well after they'd seen multiple people be mauled or eaten alive, they melted down into pointless bickering.

Might be semi-reasonable in some cases but it didn't make for riveting movie moments.
 
The T-Rex being there was in fact a good scene and wasn't there randomly. Animals escaping their enclosures ain't rare and of course these people would completely fuck up the transportation of a dinosaur.
The T-Rex making its way to the mainland only exists in the movie so there can be a cheesy callback to Godzilla. There's even a random Asian person in the streets freaking out because the terrible lizard is on a rampage. It's pure schlock, and not in a good way.

And hey, speaking of, please explain to me how the T-Rex was trapped in the hold of the ship but somehow got out, killed the pilot of the ship (severed hand hanging from the ship's wheel) inside of a tiny cockpit without destroying or damaging the cockpit... and then got locked in the hold again, only to be released once the ship got to land. Did it get out of the hold, somehow delicately insert its head into the cockpit door and kill the pilot, and then get back into the hold? How? Why?

The answer is they cut out scenes showing the ship also originally had (IIRC) T-Rex young on board, and they just overlooked the huge plot hole because even Spielberg didn't give a fuck about this movie. The Lost World is straight doodoo.
 
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Oh, I remember @Owen Grady mentioned a few years back how in Jurassic Park, everyone who died by dinosaurs actually got what they deserved due to some form of hubris on the character's part and he expertly explained why the babysitter in World actually deserved the worst death in the movie. I just remembered the one sobbing guy in JP3 who tried to get the plane to stop before the Spinosaurus came out of the trees and snatched him up, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what he did to deserve that. (Least with the compies eating the Costa Rica baby in the book, that was an establishing shot, and the little girl in Lost World didn't die of her injuries as far as I know.)
 
Oh, I remember @Owen Grady mentioned a few years back how in Jurassic Park, everyone who died by dinosaurs actually got what they deserved due to some form of hubris on the character's part and he expertly explained why the babysitter in World actually deserved the worst death in the movie. I just remembered the one sobbing guy in JP3 who tried to get the plane to stop before the Spinosaurus came out of the trees and snatched him up, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what he did to deserve that. (Least with the compies eating the Costa Rica baby in the book, that was an establishing shot, and the little girl in Lost World didn't die of her injuries as far as I know.)
Probably because he knocked out Dr. Grant on the plane before they landed to avoid him from freaking out on everybody on board. It’s less egregious, but before that he was shady with Billy and lied to him about his affiliations with the Kirbys by claiming he knew them “from their church”.

Also, keep in mind that before the World Trilogy happened, a big theme in all the movies was that killing dinosaurs with guns was a big no-no, and anybody who tried would always fail and often get killed as a result. And Cooper was a guy with a big gun. So he had to go.

I also kind of think that part of the reason for his death along with the other three guys on the plane is because all three of them are mercenaries for hire, and mercs have historically had a stereotype of being amoral scumbags. They also served in the movie as just basically being redshirts for this reason alone.

Outside of this, I have a harder time coming up with an explanation for Mr. Udesky’s death, as he was fairly agreeable for most of his time in the movie and actually was quite helpful in a couple of scenes, such as where he helped fix the Kirby’s salvaged camera with batteries from his flashlight so they could view the video of Eric landing on the island.
 
They have never allowed these films to actually fully explore that concept. It seemed like Fallen Kingdom and Dominion were actually going to do just that, but they once again neutered these films.
In the wake of the reviews for Rebirth, I hear lots of people complaining about how none of these movies ever gives us dinosaurs in the real world. The reality is, you'll never ever, EVER get the Jurassic Park franchise to do this. Universal will never allow this to happen. The IP will have to be sold before this happens.

Why? They quickly realized while making the Lost World that it ends in a blood bath and military intervention, and most forbidden of all; an R rating. Lots of innocent people would die. Dinosaurs would have to be put down. You think any director is going to say no to putting pterodactyls on the Empire State Building? Or have the military tanks come in and blow up the Spinosaurus or T-Rex? I'm sorry, but they will never allow their beloved CGI T-Rex effect to get blown apart by artillery. It's just not going to happen. They wouldn't even let it happen in the Lost World. Universal wants these to be family friendly movies and they will never let any writer or director turn these movies into the blood baths that "Dinosaurs in cities" would cause. The closest you'll ever get was the first Jurassic World. Even the first Jurassic World had everyone gather in one area to evacuate which was just begging to have a T. Rex run through it for an all you can eat buffet. They didn't let it happen though and Jurassic World was probably one of the best of these movies in terms of brutal kill counts.

Face it, the problem isn't the directors. It's not the writers. It's the studio mandates. They kill these movies and make them stupid. The problem is Universal. They're more than happy to tease dinos in the real world but they will never, ever deliver. Heck, Rebirth nearly goes full horror but they won't let that happen either. They won't let mutated dinosaurs become *too scary*. All for that precious PG-13 Rating because "family picture".

Also, keep in mind that before the World Trilogy happened, a big theme in all the movies was that killing dinosaurs with guns was a big no-no, and anybody who tried would always fail and often get killed as a result. And Cooper was a guy with a big gun. So he had to go.
To be fair, I'm perfectly fine with the movies not having guns if they're going to do the island thing. There's something about survival most people just don't seem to get. You don't want to fight unless you absolutely have to. If you have a weapon on you, you think you have protection and therefore are more likely to stand there and fight. Could a team of guns kill a T-Rex? Sure, maybe. But is it a good idea to try even if one shows up? Fuck no and some of you will die trying. People don't have respect for the notion that fighting sucks, even if you win, you might still lose or put yourself in a worse situation than before.

The problem is Rebirth. That movie says no guns. Introduces gun. Gun then proves to be very useful. Movie then asks us to believe team of hardened battle worn mercenaries don't carry pistols or at minimum, knives on them at all times. To which I say, Fuck You Movie.
 
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And hey, speaking of, please explain to me how the T-Rex was trapped in the hold of the ship but somehow got out, killed the pilot of the ship (severed hand hanging from the ship's wheel) inside of a tiny cockpit without destroying or damaging the cockpit... and then got locked in the hold again, only to be released once the ship got to land. Did it get out of the hold, somehow delicately insert its head into the cockpit door and kill the pilot, and then get back into the hold? How? Why?

The answer is they cut out scenes showing the ship also originally had (IIRC) T-Rex young on board, and they just overlooked the huge plot hole because even Spielberg didn't give a fuck about this movie. The Lost World is straight doodoo.
The original version of the scene had the buck T. rex smash through the boat cockpit explaining how he got to the crew members there, but that scene was cut from the final film. Although that doesn't explain why he went back to the cargo hold. Maybe there was food inside there.
 
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I hear lots of people complaining about how none of these movies ever gives us dinosaurs in the real world. The reality is, you'll never ever, EVER get the Jurassic Park franchise to do this. Universal will never allow this to happen. The IP will have to be sold before this happens.
But Fallen Kingdom literally ends with the Dinosaurs escaping into the real world and Dominion had the "We must learn to coexist with them" plot point because apparently humanity is incapable of containing or killing them so they just let them be. Or did you mean an all out human vs Dino war? because in that case yeah this would never ever happen, we have more chances of a Live Action Turok movie being made than a Jurassic Park film doing that.
 
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