Nutrek / New Star Trek / 2009 - Present day - The most embarrassing production modern television has ever seen

Jesus what is it with the trolls lately first the guy in the Godzilla thread now this? People must be getting anxious for Christmas or something.
Mostly boredom.

I just like Quark in DS9 though and the Cardassisns. They’re great characters stuck in a shitty series if I want to add to the thread. Is it true that they made a character called Sneed to dab on the haters?
 
I just like Quark in DS9 though
Let me sum up Quark's complex character real quick: Sleazy, slimey barman that engages in paralegal or illegal activities but we find out he has a heart of gold.
Every episode with him is literally this. He starts out with some evil scheme and at the very end he takes a right turn to preserve whatever ethics he has left. There is a reason why he's a supporting character.
 
Let me sum up Quark's complex character real quick: Sleazy, slimey barman that engages in paralegal or illegal activities but we find out he has a heart of gold.
Every episode with him is literally this. He starts out with some evil scheme and at the very end he takes a right turn to preserve whatever ethics he has left. There is a reason why he's a supporting character.

Come on though, he gave us one of the more genuinely funny moments from Star Trek though.

 
I watched two seasons of it out of spite but I knew it was gonna be shit way before that when the first promo images of the New and Improved Klingons™ showed up.

The Orville was better Trek once it got past the first few goofy episodes (which are still good) than any of the nuTreks were after two seasons. Paramount should be giving McFarlane a rimjob while shoving Kurtzman's head into a blender.
Imagine MacFarlane and Terry Matalas working on a new Trek series.
 
While I've largely accepted the complete degradation of modern television and don't expect anything good from it for my two most beloved genres, sci fi and fantasy... the absolute travesty that is current star trek makes me so MATI. I wish they had just not even bothered and left trek dead in the optimistic era it came from. How they could turn the franchise that produced DS9 into this is just beyond me.
 
How they could turn the franchise that produced DS9 into this is just beyond me.
Paramount doesn't care whether or not the franchise generates revenue. At this point the franchise just exists for producers to build business relationships. Alex Kurtzman probably has enough friends in the company to make a dozen flops that cost $200M + advertising each.
 
I only liked certain episodes of DS9 everything else is constant poz loads. William Shatner couldn’t save it for me.

I see Trekkies as one of the largest problems with nerd culture and bully them physically, mentally, and spiritually whenever I can. It’s such a gay melodrama and forever let fags like Joss Whedon destroy a cool setting.
I actually want to hear you elaborate on this. I don't really hear people trash on DS9 too much, despite the fact that it's definitely not without it's flaws.
 
Paramount doesn't care whether or not the franchise generates revenue. At this point the franchise just exists for producers to build business relationships. Alex Kurtzman probably has enough friends in the company to make a dozen flops that cost $200M + advertising each.
Paramount is like every other big name corpo that wants to milk a dead franchise rather actually leaving said dead franchise to, oh I don't know, stay dead
 
I actually want to hear you elaborate on this. I don't really hear people trash on DS9 too much, despite the fact that it's definitely not without it's flaws.
I’m more of a TNG guy myself (grew up with that show — I think there are literally baby pictures of me with TNG on the tv in the background) and I haven’t gotten into DS9 yet, despite trying. The following points come from a biased point of view.

I think we don’t hear much criticism of DS9 these days because Star Trek fans are in general older and look back at 90s Trek fondly. Hell, we’re seeing people here and in the main Trek thread lionize Voyager and Enterprise (remember how the internet destroyed those shows before nuTrek? Pepperidge Farms remembers). It’s a little bit like what’s going on with the Star Wars prequel revisionism (as much as people hate admitting it, the fandoms have a lot in common).

The biggest criticism of DS9 I got from friends attempting to watch it and much older family members around when it originally aired was that it was more soap opera than Star Trek (I think my mom jokingly called it “General Hospital in space”). For every bit of scifi world building, or intergalactic political intrigue (the “good parts” of DS9), there were 5 soap opera scenes of interpersonal relationship drama. If you know and care about the characters, it’s tolerable and even fun, but for the audience that was used to TNG, it was whiplash.

That leads to the second major criticism of DS9 — it wasn’t TNG. While it’s thrown around as an insult, the “anomaly of the week” format is what people LOVED about Star Trek. DS9, taking place on a stationary space station was not that and was harder for the TNG fans to get into. Later seasons, when they brought Worf on and had the USS Defiant, looked like a cheap attempt to draw TNG fans into DS9 with mixed success. The arguments between more casual TNG viewers and the established DS9 fans leads to the next point.

The third criticism I can think of, but it’s more mild and indirect, is that the DS9 fandom, at least in previous decades, was insistent that DS9 was the best Trek ever and shut down old farts who want their TOS/TNG anomaly of the week. I remember seeing the “you just don’t get it” excuse used by DS9 fans frequently and I think that annoyed older TNG fans and more casual viewers.

Are these valid? Maybe, but they seem pretty silly and petty these days. I think without nuTrek, old nerds had less stuff to argue about and made mountains out of mole hills.

My favorite way to trigger a haughty DS9 fan is to say it’s a rip-off of Babylon 5. The seething you get is quite amusing.
 
My favorite way to trigger a haughty DS9 fan is to say it’s a rip-off of Babylon 5. The seething you get is quite amusing.
I mean, it literally is.

But yes the soap opera aspects are the worst part of DS9. Apparently the only reason we got the Kira/Odo pairing towards the end was because a new writer was a fan of that ship when it was teased like three seasons earlier and wanted to make it actually happen. And then they did, in the most retarded, character-assassinating manner possible.

In a weird way, Voyager actually benefits from it's sloppy continuity in this regard; when a character acted out of character and did something incredibly retarded, you could at least rest assured it would never be brought up again at least and you could just pretend it never happened. DS9 doesn't have that luxury because of it's serialized nature.
 
The only good thing I can say about nuTrek is that it’s made talking about older Trek IPs way more cordial and constructive (my above post, along with the Babylon 5 jab, would’ve started a flame war in decades past). Maybe Star Trek fans are just mellowing out in their old age (Trekkies are on average older than other long-running fandoms). It’s getting to the point “Trekkie” as a term for a rabid die-hard fan doesn’t really apply anymore.

Slightly OT, what IP fandom really deserves the “Trekkie” reputation? It needs to be a large fandom with crazy fans and a strong cultural legacy (for better or worse). My go-to answer are that “Potterheads” are more Trekkie than Trekkies, but with the Queen TERF JK Lol-ing fiasco, that crazy fandom has fractured something fierce.
 
The only good thing I can say about nuTrek is that it’s made talking about older Trek IPs way more cordial and constructive (my above post, along with the Babylon 5 jab, would’ve started a flame war in decades past). Maybe Star Trek fans are just mellowing out in their old age (Trekkies are on average older than other long-running fandoms). It’s getting to the point “Trekkie” as a term for a rabid die-hard fan doesn’t really apply anymore.

Slightly OT, what IP fandom really deserves the “Trekkie” reputation? It needs to be a large fandom with crazy fans and a strong cultural legacy (for better or worse). My go-to answer are that “Potterheads” are more Trekkie than Trekkies, but with the Queen TERF JK Lol-ing fiasco, that crazy fandom has fractured something fierce.
IMO the technical breakthroughs of the internet have just ended the natural gatekeeping made being a Trekkie/X-phile/Juggalo a hardcore obsession. So there's less passion to start flame wars.

To really know Star Trek in the 90s all the you had to tape shit on VHS, you needed to know TOS, have copies of the movies, keep up with Voyager and DS9. It was a lot of work. Now you can pirate every episode or pay a small monthly subscription to Paramount+ for the catalogue.

Gen Alpha will never know what it's like to have to rush back home because the newest episode of your favorite show was about to premiere. Hell I remember looking at TV Guide and seeing they were playing an episode of my show that I hadn't watched yet. We're no longer dependent on that, the entertainment can wait for us.
 
I think we don’t hear much criticism of DS9 these days because Star Trek fans are in general older and look back at 90s Trek fondly. Hell, we’re seeing people here and in the main Trek thread lionize Voyager and Enterprise (remember how the internet destroyed those shows before nuTrek? Pepperidge Farms remembers). It’s a little bit like what’s going on with the Star Wars prequel revisionism (as much as people hate admitting it, the fandoms have a lot in common).
Enterprise genuinely gets better once you get to Season 3 (and I totally understand people not willing to sit through two mediocre seasons to get to it), but Voyager was always a trash heap with a few diamonds in the rough.
The biggest criticism of DS9 I got from friends attempting to watch it and much older family members around when it originally aired was that it was more soap opera than Star Trek (I think my mom jokingly called it “General Hospital in space”). For every bit of scifi world building, or intergalactic political intrigue (the “good parts” of DS9), there were 5 soap opera scenes of interpersonal relationship drama. If you know and care about the characters, it’s tolerable and even fun, but for the audience that was used to TNG, it was whiplash.
Your friends and family members are deadass wrong then. Don't get me wrong, the worst parts of DS9 is the relationship dramas (especially between Odo and Kira). But the ratio is completely inversed, for every soap opera scene there is 5 intergalactic political intrigue ones (aka the good shit). You also can't pretend TNG didn't do this shit constantly with Deanna and Riker.

TNG and DS9 were also two completely different shows despite being in the same universe. One was an episodic tale about human exploration and the wonder of an idealized "utopian" fantastical sci-fi future, the other was a serialized story set in (mostly) one out of the way and technologically backwards very space western location focused on going more in-depth into how said fantastical sci-fi future works and the various flaws said utopia really has. DS9 openly presents itself as the inverse of TNG in its pilot episode FFS.
That leads to the second major criticism of DS9 — it wasn’t TNG. While it’s thrown around as an insult, the “anomaly of the week” format is what people LOVED about Star Trek. DS9, taking place on a stationary space station was not that and was harder for the TNG fans to get into. Later seasons, when they brought Worf on and had the USS Defiant, looked like a cheap attempt to draw TNG fans into DS9 with mixed success. The arguments between more casual TNG viewers and the established DS9 fans leads to the next point.
This isn't a criticism, its two different audiences who want two different things from two different shows.
The third criticism I can think of, but it’s more mild and indirect, is that the DS9 fandom, at least in previous decades, was insistent that DS9 was the best Trek ever and shut down old farts who want their TOS/TNG anomaly of the week. I remember seeing the “you just don’t get it” excuse used by DS9 fans frequently and I think that annoyed older TNG fans and more casual viewers.
DS9 is just an objectively better put together show from the characters to the writing. That doesn't mean that people have to love it more than TNG/TOS, because humans are subjective creatures who like things for subjective reasons. Some people prefer a cheese burger to Filet mignon, but few people will argue that a cheese burger is better prepared or of simply higher quality than a Filet mignon.
My favorite way to trigger a haughty DS9 fan is to say it’s a rip-off of Babylon 5. The seething you get is quite amusing.
I think Babylon 5 is better written than DS9 and I love both those shows. Its not even really an insult because anything being compared to Babylon 5 in the sci-fi realm is a huge compliment in itself in my books.
 
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