Culture How often do men think about ancient Rome? Quite frequently, it seems.

Link (Archive)

How often do men think about ancient Rome? Quite frequently, it seems.​

It’s been almost 2,000 years since the Roman Empire reached the historic peak of its power. But many men still contemplate it — quite a lot.

A new social media trend prompting women to ask the men in their lives how often they think about ancient Rome reveals that it crosses the minds of many men on a weekly basis. Even daily. Or more — to the surprise and confusion of their loved ones.

“Three times a day,” answered one woman’s fiancé in a TikTok video. “There’s so much to think about,” he explained, eliciting a stunned look into the camera from his soon-to-be wife.

“They built an entire world-dominating society,” another man exclaimed when asked by a bewildered-looking woman to justify why he contemplates ancient Rome.

“Actually I was just having a conversation about their aqueducts and the fact that they had concrete that could harden. … How the hell did you know that?” answered another person who said they think about ancient Rome “at least once a day” in response to the question, in a screenshot shared on TikTok.

But why? Sure, the Roman Empire boasted a dominion that stretched across the entire Mediterranean basin and far beyond. It was a flourishing laboratory of works of art and engineering that continue to astound. And it operated under a political system that still forms the basis of many modern counterparts. (At least, that’s what this reporter contemplates, maybe once a fortnight.)

But why does there seem to be a gender divide in who is daydreaming about ancient Rome today?

According to historians, one explanation could be that Western societies have historically overemphasized the aspects of Roman history that are associated with masculinity in the popular imagination.

The first thing that comes to the mind is “an image of the Roman legion, the imperial eagle and that sort of military aspect — along with gladiators, which has a long association with masculinity and power,” Hannah Cornwell, a historian of the ancient world at Britain’s Birmingham University, said in a telephone interview Thursday.

Since at least the 19th century, she said, historians have tended to view ancient Rome through the prism of politics and warfare, in part as a result of their reliance on “elite, masculine” sources.

“That has informed popular culture,” she said. “And yet — it’s then missing out on so much.”

The slew of videos on TikTok appear to have been prompted by Artur Hulu, a 32-year-old Roman reenactor and history influencer from Sweden who has earned a large following.

Known as “Gaius Flavius” online, where he posts videos of himself as a Roman legionnaire and performs comedy sketches as a gladiator, Hulu wrote on Instagram: “Ladies, many of you do not realize how often men think about the Roman Empire. … You will be surprised by their answers!”

In an interview, Hulu said he posed the question after noticing a disparity between men and women in their interest in Roman history and seeing other creators discuss similar trends. Hulu’s Roman reenactment society, for example, involves 16 men and two women, he said. “It is heavily male dominated.”

The disparity in interest dates back hundreds of years, Hulu believes. “The men during the Renaissance did it. The Founding Fathers also thought about the Roman Empire. Once you get enough exposure to the Roman Empire, whether it’s the military stuff or the law, you start to see it everywhere,” he said. “I can’t remember a day when I didn’t think about the Roman Empire. … It just fascinates me how different but also how similar the Roman Empire is to our world today.”

And “Gaius Flavius” is not alone. One Reddit user, when prompted by his wife, said he thinks about the Roman Empire a few times a week.

“So many things in our lives today were influenced by the Roman Empire,” he explained in a post. “Language, food, philosophy, architecture, war, entertainment, sports, mythology, culture. … I don’t actively focus on the Roman Empire but the connection always pops into my head as I go about my daily life.”
Historians insist that Rome itself isn’t just “guy stuff,” as some men in videos called it.

“Ancient Rome was of course patriarchal and violent,” Lewis Webb, a historian of ancient Rome at Oxford University, wrote in an email. “But it was also a diverse place: there were numerous forms of masculinity, women could have agency and power, and there were multiple gender expressions and identities, as well as various sexualities.”

Historian Cornwell also points out that Sextus Varius Avitus Bassianus, or Elagabalus, the Roman emperor from A.D. 218 to 222, is frequently presented in ancient sources as experimenting with cross-dressing.

“Even when you get to some of the emperors, they’re doing weird and wacky things by modern conceptions of what a man is,” Cornwell points out. There were also female gladiators. “The Romans do have a clear sense of what is masculine and feminine, but within that there is an awful lot of flexibility. Which sometimes we often forget about,” she said.

And she herself, of course, thinks about the Roman Empire quite a lot — on a daily basis, as it is her chosen field. Her partner recently told her he thinks about it “1.6 times a month.”
So what is a healthy amount?

“Goodness,” she said, laughing. “I’d say it really depends on what you’re thinking about.”
 
Don't move goalposts.
The topic is "do they think about" not "are they knowledgeable about."
Dudes thinking about the movie Gladiator are not necessarily knowledgeable either but they're still thinking about historical stuff.
Watching shit to go to sleep doesn't involve thinking about it though. I'm not moving goalposts, you are failing to realize that media consumption does not translate to knowledge about a subject nor thought about it.
I think getting people more interested in history and aware of different events should be a higher priority than putting the bar at having to read through numerous monographs and primary sources.
I used to be the type that would have agreed with you on this, then I got lectured a few dozen times by women who asserted The Woman King was a Stunning and Brave truth telling documentary about a Proud Independent Woman who didn't need no man.
 
I used to be the type that would have agreed with you on this, then I got lectured a few dozen times by women who asserted The Woman King was a Stunning and Brave truth telling documentary about a Proud Independent Woman who didn't need no man.
This isn’t purely a women’s issue though. Plenty of men get their understanding of how the Wild West worked through watching old 50’s era westerns. Even those were inaccurate at times because they’d give the main characters hairstyles and makeup that would actually be more 50s than the era it’s trying to depict. That’s actually a common issue in tv shows and movies on different time periods. The hairstyles and makeup will get modernized because audiences might find the more period accurate style as unattractive. I could go on and on about numerous inaccuracies found in media based on historic eras, but if said media is a catalyst for reading a historic monograph on that era, I see it as successful. Most people’s interactions that get them interested in history are rarely books scholars write, and are more likely to be found in museums, tv shows, movies, musicals, etc. If history isn’t able to be adaptable to wider audiences, historical knowledge as a whole will drop.
 
Última edición:
This isn’t purely a women’s issue though. Plenty of men get their understanding of how the Wild West worked through watching old 50’s era westerns. Even those were inaccurate at times because they’d give the main characters hairstyles and makeup that would actually be more 50s than the era it’s trying to depict. That’s actually a common issue in tv shows and movies on different time periods. The hairstyles and makeup will get modernized because audiences might find the more period accurate style as unattractive. I could go on and on about numerous inaccuracies found in media based on historic eras, but if said media is a catalyst for reading a historic monograph on that era, I see it as successful. Most people’s interactions that get them interested in history are rarely book scholars write, and are more likely to be found in museums, tv shows, movies, musicals, etc. If history isn’t able to be adaptable to wider audiences, historical knowledge as a whole will drop.
This is why entertainment is the #1 vector for propaganda. I've been dwelling on this a lot recently (when I'm not thinking about Ancient Rome, of course... well, actually, sometimes I think about both) and it really worries me, everyone gets their ideas from bullshitters on Tiktok and reddit and the media and it's an entirely fake, constructed reality.
 
What is this city of Rome you speak of I only know Constantinople
Rome probably filled with Gallic
 

Archivos adjuntos

  • joan-francesc-oliveras-pallerols-persian-cataphract.jpg
    joan-francesc-oliveras-pallerols-persian-cataphract.jpg
    628.5 KB · Vistas: 7
This isn’t purely a women’s issue though. Plenty of men get their understanding of how the Wild West worked through watching old 50’s era westerns.
A fair enough point. Imo Deadwood was a good western drama because despite its liberties with the drama in the town it showed a lot of the violence out west that wasn't in big gunfights in the middle of the street, it was more in petty brawls in a landscape where there was only tenuous legal structure at best. But if it hadn't been for loving those old spaghetti westerns so much I wouldn't have been interested enough to learn about that. I don't see that happening these days where people, and yes especially women, take some piece of history media and then think about it enough to learn the truth. They just accept whatever is presented to them as fact.

everyone gets their ideas from bullshitters on Tiktok and reddit and the media and it's an entirely fake, constructed reality.
I suspect social media is actually to blame for a lot of what I'm talking about, and it somewhat explains why I'm noticing it more with women because women statistically use social media much more. It's like people just don't have long enough attention spans to think abstractly about anything anymore and they just swallow whatever is shoved in front of them while they're distracted. So they see some Netflix show with a negress viking Harkon playing in the background while they're scrolling tiktok and next thing you know they're 100% sure there were black women vikings because duh it's historical fact you bigot.
 
I don't see that happening these days where people, and yes especially women, take some piece of history media and then think about it enough to learn the truth. They just accept whatever is presented to them as fact.
Dude, I got both a BA and a MA in history as a woman, and the men to women ratio with my professors was roughly 50/50. Please stop assuming all women are like that, because plenty of women are interested in and will read history regularly.
 
Dude, I got both a BA and a MA in history as a woman, and the men to women ratio with my professors was roughly 50/50. Please stop assuming all women are like that, because plenty of women are interested in and will read history regularly.
Apologies if I sound overly blackpilled on this subject. It does seem to be age segregated, somewhere mid millennial gen or so in my experience. If you're postgrad level I'm assuming you're not quite part of the modern generation of avid social media consumers who have had their attention spans whittled down by endlessly scrolling 30 second snippets of other people's lives.
Maybe I chose the wrong field 🧐
 
I have a morning ritual that I need to share. I call it 'Imperator'. First I stand in the shower in the classic 'Augustus of Prima Porta' pose. With my eyes closed I stand there for a minute, visualizing either Augustus or the Colosseum (not the Nimes Amphitheater because that one sucked) and I start to hum the Gladiator theme. Then I slowly extend my hand in a Roman salute and open my eyes. It helps me to proceed through my day as an emotionless, Stoic badass. The only problem is if the shower curtain sticks to my Roman leg. It ruins the fantasy.
 
Apologies if I sound overly blackpilled on this subject. It does seem to be age segregated, somewhere mid millennial gen or so in my experience. If you're postgrad level I'm assuming you're not quite part of the modern generation of avid social media consumers who have had their attention spans whittled down by endlessly scrolling 30 second snippets of other people's lives.
Maybe I chose the wrong field 🧐
Still in my 20s, so I could be depending on the cutoff. Point is, I think you’re over generalizing. That said, I didn’t get my degrees with the promise of getting a history related job since the job market for that is both small, and hard to break into due to lack of funding/demand. It was excellent for being so well rounded as history will often have you gain basic knowledge on technology, law, agriculture, and language. I would recommend it for that, but you pretty much have to be open to not working in a job directly related to that afterwards due to issues I mentioned above.
 
I think about it multiple times a day, but I really enjoy the late Republican era's story/narrative so I guess I'm just a sucker for a good story lol.

Sulla Chad's Rise!
People often forget all of Rome's real expansion happened during the Republic too. Pretty amazing to realize most of Spain had already been under Roman control for nearly 200 years when Augustus became Emperor.
 
Roads, running water and more widespread literacy. Without the last of which we would not be reading this shit.
"Democracy dies in darkness." Thankfully your descent into a glorified blog is public for all to see WP.
"All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
 
Not a day goes by that i don't think about how Horatius Cocles held the bridge in those brave days of old.


Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the gate:
‘To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his Gods.



ROMA VICTRIX!
 
They don't want you to think about Roman history, you might learn such lessons as "letting a shitton of immigrants that hate you into your borders so you can exploit them will end up with them burning your cities and raping your women" or "sometimes the rot of a corrupt republic can only be cleansed by crossing the Rubicon."

Exactly. We're on a collision course that will change the nation as we know it, and it brings up uncomfortable comparisons to the end of the Roman Republic or the Empire.

The era of the world that was created with the conclusion of World War II is groaning under its own weight and an ever-increasing tension is building.
 
It would be really interesting to gather data on what people think about all day, but it'd be nearly impossible. The best way would be giving the subjects a lapel mike and recording device, asking them to think out loud and making grad students tabulate it.

But even "thinking out loud" changes what you're thinking about, and the rate of thought. Anyone who's ever oriented a new hire knows how having to constantly articulate your thought process slows you down.

Given the "Ancient Rome" example, I wonder if more people have thought about Rome and just not remembered. You watch a movie with MCMLXV in the opening credits, you're going to have a split second of thinkin' about Rome as you decode it, but if someone asks you about your day you're just going to tell them you watched Thunderball and show them how much further you got on your cross-stitch during it.
 
I would be curious if there’s a time period women think about most. My guess would be European royalty/European culture 1500s-1800s. If I wanted to get more specific, I’d probably go with either Ancien Regime France, Tudor England, or Regency era England due to all the movies, books, and tv shows catered to women based on these time periods.
 
There was a dream that was Rome.....
 
Dude, I got both a BA and a MA in history as a woman, and the men to women ratio with my professors was roughly 50/50. Please stop assuming all women are like that, because plenty of women are interested in and will read history regularly.
Women online will use you and actual women in the field to claim how their "research" for next gay fanfic they write means most historians are female, so men know nothing but WWII etc.
Saw it so much, stopped bothering to answer.
 
Atrás
Top Abajo