‘It now feels as though I am on my own’ - Trans-man discovers being a man is more difficult than she imagined

‘It now feels as though I am on my own’​

Zander Keig, 52, San Diego

Coast Guard veteran. Works at Naval Medical Center San Diego as a clinical social work case manager. Editor of anthologies about transgender men. Started transition in 2005.

Prior to my transition, I was an outspoken radical feminist. I spoke up often, loudly and with confidence. I was encouraged to speak up. I was given awards for my efforts, literally — it was like, “Oh, yeah, speak up, speak out.” When I speak up now, I am often given the direct or indirect message that I am “mansplaining,” “taking up too much space” or “asserting my white male heterosexual privilege.” Never mind that I am a first-generation Mexican American, a transsexual man, and married to the same woman I was with prior to my transition.

I find the assertion that I am now unable to speak out on issues I find important offensive and I refuse to allow anyone to silence me. My ability to empathize has grown exponentially, because I now factor men into my thinking and feeling about situations. Prior to my transition, I rarely considered how men experienced life or what they thought, wanted or liked about their lives. I have learned so much about the lives of men through my friendships with men, reading books and articles by and for men and through the men I serve as a licensed clinical social worker.

Social work is generally considered to be “female dominated,” with women making up about 80 percent of the profession in the United States. Currently I work exclusively with clinical nurse case managers, but in my previous position, as a medical social worker working with chronically homeless military veterans — mostly male — who were grappling with substance use disorder and severe mental illness, I was one of a few men among dozens of women.

Zander Keig, a Coast Guard veteran and a board member for the Transgender American Veterans Association, attends its meeting in Washington.
Plenty of research shows that life events, medical conditions and family circumstances impact men and women differently. But when I would suggest that patient behavioral issues like anger or violence may be a symptom of trauma or depression, it would often get dismissed or outright challenged. The overarching theme was “men are violent” and there was “no excuse” for their actions.

I do notice that some women do expect me to acquiesce or concede to them more now: Let them speak first, let them board the bus first, let them sit down first, and so on. I also notice that in public spaces men are more collegial with me, which they express through verbal and nonverbal messages: head lifting when passing me on the sidewalk and using terms like “brother” and “boss man” to acknowledge me. As a former lesbian feminist, I was put off by the way that some women want to be treated by me, now that I am a man, because it violates a foundational belief I carry, which is that women are fully capable human beings who do not need men to acquiesce or concede to them.


What continues to strike me is the significant reduction in friendliness and kindness now extended to me in public spaces. It now feels as though I am on my own: No one, outside of family and close friends, is paying any attention to my well-being.

I can recall a moment where this difference hit home. A couple of years into my medical gender transition, I was traveling on a public bus early one weekend morning. There were six people on the bus, including me. One was a woman. She was talking on a mobile phone very loudly and remarked that “men are such a–holes.” I immediately looked up at her and then around at the other men. Not one had lifted his head to look at the woman or anyone else. The woman saw me look at her and then commented to the person she was speaking with about “some a–hole on the bus right now looking at me.” I was stunned, because I recall being in similar situations, but in the reverse, many times: A man would say or do something deemed obnoxious or offensive, and I would find solidarity with the women around me as we made eye contact, rolled our eyes and maybe even commented out loud on the situation. I’m not sure I understand why the men did not respond, but it made a lasting impression on me.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...gender-guys-found-the-truth-was-more-complex/

 

[Michael Janke]

we should send these bitches a selective service letter, on principle.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

In order to get anything done that needs focused concentration, I literally have to not tell anyone where I am going, ensure that someone else is available for emergencies for my dependents, and not make any eye contact with anybody around me.

You prefaced that post by pointing out that you found this very thread distracting enough that you kept thinking about the opinions of random jackass Kiwis on the internet when you were supposed to be getting back to doing your work. Are you sure this isn't just you having a really shit attention span?

 

[Piggy Higuera]

I can tell you're a woman.

Men can't afford to 'lose their shit'. If a woman makes a scene she gets attention, but if a man makes a scene he gets ignored or beaten up. Women get a way with a lot of shit because they are women, men acting that way would not have their front teeth.

It's more that women tend to lose their shit too often and over so little.

If you're a good, solid, team-player guy people respect in a job, you get to use the rare freak out to make your point and have it be, "Man, if HE's upset about this, there must really be something to it," instead of, "Yes Janice, the thermostat being at 70° is a microaggression, we'll make sure everyone else feels like they're in a sauna for your sake," and quickly people learn not to take anything she's upset at seriously.

 

[mold]

I can tell you're a woman.

Men can't afford to 'lose their shit'. If a woman makes a scene she gets attention, but if a man makes a scene he gets ignored or beaten up. Women get a way with a lot of shit because they are women, men acting that way would not have their front teeth.

I can tell you have no females in your life you care about or who trust you because if you did you'd know that we are always navigating the potential of men losing their shit

decent men don't ever get violent with women as a method of getting their way. there's a radfem cliche about all men benefiting from the violence of bad men that I actually do not believe at all. my experience with men is that lots of decent men are just flatout oblivious to how much potential violence shitty men are holding over women.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

if you did you'd know that we are always navigating the potential of women losing their shit

This is just as true for men.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I can tell you have no females in your life you care about or who trust you because if you did you'd know that we are always navigating the potential of men losing their shit

Yeah, like when "you" (not every single woman, but indeed some of them) get in men's faces in public and do their best German Shepherd impression because they know that he won't hit back between his own inclinations and the fact that things will go south if he even defends himself.

Or whenever a woman physically abuses them and go all out, also understanding that he can't do anything to defend himself without likely being arrested instead. Really adept and earnest navigation, right there. Or, should I recognize that they've surveyed the situation and concluded that the man will indeed not lose his shit?

By the day, I'm becoming more disgusted by the "I can tell you don't talk to women because..." rhetoric and its derivatives, particularly when it comes from women-- it'd be one thing if it was just smarmy but was plausibly an original thought, but it also seems to be indoctrinated rhetoric that serves no purpose except to arbitrarily belittle its target by suggesting a borderline ridiculous circumstance.

 

[robobobo]

I'd sooner a woman that tries to fit in and can handle herself than one who expects everyone to change the way they interact for her sake.

Why is it that in older female led movies like Aliens (Ripley) versus newer ones like the last Charlies Angels movie (forgettable stereotypes) guys totally love the first movie but find the second a big turn-off? Because Ripley doesn't demand inclusion as a right but earns it the same way any man would. And in the latter it's all about how men are sexist and exclusionary. Yes, men are exclusionary - to everyone. You enter a new group there's jostling and positioning. Women tend not to understand this and apologies for generalizing, thing it's sexism. Remember when Ripley goes to Hicks and Apone and says she feels like a third wheel and is there anything she can do, the reply is straight-up "I don't know, is there anything you can do." It's a challenge. You'd get it regardless of your sex. She's taken aback a second, smiles and says: "I can drive that loader" and then proves it. In most modern movies, it would suggest Hicks and Apone are dicks who say that because they're Sexist Men-Pigs and Ripley would humiliate them for thinking she couldn't do it.

There's that entire dynamic with women in the southern US. For all of the reputation of rednecks as being hardcore misogynists, you very often see a woman being the head of the household. Yeah, Randy goes out and does the day job at the tractor, but Norma-Jean is the one running the house, keeping the kids in line, fixing the bad plumbing, and resurfacing the driveway, and Randy best remember the fact if he doesn't want her hand upside his head. Without the wealth required for the woman to be treated like some kind of delicate flower, they're down in the dirt with the men and wind up treated with according respect by those men. Unsurprisingly, those same women are not often hanging out in feminist circles and usually don't vote democrat.

 

[The Whole Slice]

male is the only sex f*male is a mental illness

 

[mold]

another thing this thread made me think about is how a woman can socially transition into a pretend man way easier than the other way around. in fact the other way is really almost impossible.

it's pretty clear that I was right that while women experience isolation, you guys really never experience what I'm talking about, the constant interruptions. if you physically present as male, people treat you as male, the end. part of that is being ignored and/or treated with wariness and suspicion. but the social experience of being a woman has to do with relationships. when you're young and cute people are constantly trying to relate to you. then when you're older and less cute you have a whole bunch of relationships (and people still try to date you it's just even weirder and creepier). men don't just end up with a bunch of relationships by following nature. you can't just put on a dress and step into that life.

I literally cannot work at my house. If someone else is home, they will interrupt me. And this isn't just about children. Last week, with no kids home, I thought I could take a zoom meeting at the dining room table. Someone - an *adult* I live with, not a child - wanted my attention so bad that he walked up to me in the middle of it and put a note in between me and the screen.

And the male reaction to this tends to be "that's so fucked up that relationship must be abusive" or something when in fact it is totally normal everyday experience for women. I know a number of homeschooling families who run home businesses and they all have different ways of dealing with this dynamic but it all involves some way of making it physically difficult-to-impossible for children/employees/other adults around to access the mom. that's not ever necessary to do for the dad.

probably a bunch of you are going to talk about how fun and awesome it would be to have people up in your business all the time. sometimes I think it would be great to have people leave me alone. but both of these things have costs. it would suck to be male and to have nobody care about you, but it also sucks to be female and have all the people who care about you, and a bunch of people who just interact with you regularly, as well pretty frequently total strangers, continually fail to stop and think "maybe what she is doing is important and I should wait." it sucks to be human and sometimes it sucks in different ways by sex.

it also really, really sucks to have people constantly trying to date you. *it's not fun.* *you wouldn't like it.*

 

[Unyielding Stupidity]

another thing this thread made me think about is how a woman can socially transition into a pretend man way easier than the other way around. in fact the other way is really almost impossible.

You do realize that you're posting this in a thread about an article where a woman attempted to do just that and struggled, right?

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

I can tell you have no females in your life you care about or who trust you because if you did you'd know that we are always navigating the potential of men losing their shit

And I can tell you have no father because you think men are psychos.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Women do this all the time: they have a weird relationship dynamic that has evolved in part from their passivity and refusal to take initiative and communicate preferences to the guy. They then project this onto everyone- men are all giant infants who can't let a woman handle a serious business call without demanding attention! This is an eternal truth of the sexes!

But if you watch these people irl while they think of themselves as assertive, strong, girlbosses, they actually are whiny and passive and let people do whatever and just bitch about it later. Which establishes a precedent, people think if she didn't like it she'd say something, and she never does, so...

 

[mold]

You do realize that you're posting this in a thread about an article where a woman attempted to do just that and struggled, right?

easier in the sense that a person can be a biological woman and go have part of the male experience, not easier in the sense that it's easier to be a dude

 

[RodgerDodger]

I can tell you have no females in your life you care about or who trust you because if you did you'd know that we are always navigating the potential of men losing their shit

decent men don't ever get violent with women as a method of getting their way. there's a radfem cliche about all men benefiting from the violence of bad men that I actually do not believe at all. my experience with men is that lots of decent men are just flatout oblivious to how much potential violence shitty men are holding over women.

So do all women bear responsibility for the manipulative Cluster B Psycho's that tear through mens lives like a chainsaw and ride off to do it to the next? Are all women observant of those really horrible human beings? Or were we just subject to fucking years of "BELIEVE ALL WOMEN!!!".

And yes men know bad men exist. If somebody asks us to deal with it we generally will. We don't man up as a wall and tell you you are wrong because all men must be believed. But we also generally won't get involved in your business unless requested to.

 

[SITHRAK!]

"I can tell you don't talk to women because..." rhetoric and its derivatives, particularly when it comes from women

It’s just a variant of Code Purple.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

There's that entire dynamic with women in the southern US. For all of the reputation of rednecks as being hardcore misogynists, you very often see a woman being the head of the household. Yeah, Randy goes out and does the day job at the tractor, but Norma-Jean is the one running the house, keeping the kids in line, fixing the bad plumbing, and resurfacing the driveway, and Randy best remember the fact if he doesn't want her hand upside his head. Without the wealth required for the woman to be treated like some kind of delicate flower, they're down in the dirt with the men and wind up treated with according respect by those men. Unsurprisingly, those same women are not often hanging out in feminist circles and usually don't vote democrat.

Mamma runs the family.

I kind of think we lost something when we lost that.

 

[Overly Serious]

I literally cannot work at my house. If someone else is home, they will interrupt me. And this isn't just about children. Last week, with no kids home, I thought I could take a zoom meeting at the dining room table. Someone - an *adult* I live with, not a child - wanted my attention so bad that he walked up to me in the middle of it and put a note in between me and the screen.

And the male reaction to this tends to be "that's so fucked up that relationship must be abusive" or something when in fact it is totally normal everyday experience for women. I know a number of homeschooling families who run home businesses and they all have different ways of dealing with this dynamic but it all involves some way of making it physically difficult-to-impossible for children/employees/other adults around to access the mom. that's not ever necessary to do for the dad.

Scott Adams in the Dilbert Principle, long ago, said that women often failed as bosses because they never learned to tell people to fuck off. And that this inability to do so led to Death by a Thousand Interruptions. Sounds like what you experience.

But as regards your comment on being asked out and flirted with, you're mostly wrong there. Sure, it can be annoying but guys typically like it. We take it well. Perhaps because we feel comfortable in being approached without it feeling threatened. And yes, perhaps in part because it happens less. But I think you're wrong on this and don't get that guys think differently. Tell a guy he looks good, he almost never doesn't like it.

Mamma runs the family.

I kind of think we lost something when we lost that.

We lost the teamwork aspect. Raising a family is hard. Running a household is time-consuming. I don't think it's necessarily a power-dynamic so much as healthy co-operation by division of responsibilities. And critically - the acceptance of that by each other. It doesn't necessarily have to be this division (though it seems to be the most natural fit for most), the important part is that the couple both work together as a team.

 

[mold]

Scott Adams in the Dilbert Principle, long ago, said that women often failed as bosses because they never learned to tell people to fuck off. And that this inability to do so led to Death by a Thousand Interruptions. Sounds like what you experience.

I'm not talking about interruptions in the workplace though. Super PL but it's my dad. lol at telling my dad to fuck off. my dad lives in my house btw not the other way around. so I am the homeowner, I am the head of household, and I am *working,* but there is *absolutely no way* I can prevent this kind of thing. and yes, you can't just roll over and take it... except no, when it's close family members? you kind of do. I had another meeting later that day and told him "hey I really cannot be interrupted during this very important and very long meeting that I have to take at home," and, well, that did not work. And it never will.

I know a bunch of the dudes reading this are going to take this illustrative incident and tell me he's showing signs of dementia or I'm not communicating right or come up with one of the myriad reasons dudes like that reject a woman's take on things. If I say this happens to everyone I know with a home business they'll say my friends suck. And then at some point it's just boring women complaining and they won't read it. It's always either an individual issue that's probably the women's fault, or it's boring and they don't care.

I don't have these issues with employees/coworkers but it takes a huge amount of deliberate structure, and those are relationships that are significantly less important so I can piss those people off.

the point I'm trying to make here is that there are two conventional sex based experiences:

* men feel lonely and abandoned but they don't have to tell people to leave them alone
* women have to tell people to leave us alone but we generally feel close and connected

Men have to work hard for the kind of social connections that women get naturally. Women have to work hard for the kind of ability to focus and get uninterrupted time that men get naturally.

But as regards your comment on being asked out and flirted with, you're mostly wrong there. Sure, it can be annoying but guys typically like it. We take it well. Perhaps because we feel comfortable in being approached without it feeling threatened. And yes, perhaps in part because it happens less. But I think you're wrong on this and don't get that guys think differently. Tell a guy he looks good, he almost never doesn't like it.

because it's rare. I *know* men don't like it when it's not rare because I know they don't like it when it's gay. Young cute gay men don't like it from older gay guys and straight guys don't like it when they're working or socializing in environments where it's a constant possibility. But even those environments don't come up the level that women experience.

Interestingly gay men understand this dynamic and don't beef about it. They understand that asking for romantic/sexual attention is an imposition and they need to offer something in return to even make the ask - even if it's just access to a fun party or even just a drink, they have to offer something. Straight men used to understand this, I dunno what happened.

 

[Blobby's Murder Knife]

we should send these bitches a selective service letter, on principle.

Literally yes. One of the most hilarious things about the Ukraine war was an article about a brave and strong transman all the sudden insisting she was a woman again just to avoid military service. It just proves it is all a LARP and Ukraine was actually based by otherwise forcing her to serve if she hadn't fled like a faggot.

 

[Overly Serious]

because it's rare. I *know* men don't like it when it's not rare because I know they don't like it when it's gay. Young cute gay men don't like it from older gay guys and straight guys don't like it when they're working or socializing in environments where it's a constant possibility. But even those environments don't come up the level that women experience.

Ah. Well I'm going to stick to my ground and say that's very different. A gay guy coming onto you is qualitatively different to any woman coming on to you. Regardless of that woman's attractiveness. She can be 100% unattractive to you and it's still not going to feel the same way as a gay guy making a move on you. Never will - it's not a question of degree, it's different. If a woman I didn't find attractive made a move on me it would have to be some pretty damn extreme circumstances for me to respond with aggression towards that. A gay guy made a move towards me he's going to get some pretty firm "back the fuck off" tone of voice. I've had strange women straight up grab my crotch. Didn't know her, didn't invite it. My reaction was still more surprise and amusment and even if she'd been ugly she'd have at most got a shove back from me to push her away. A guy did that he's going to be spitting teeth. The difference in reaction isn't based on attractiveness.

No, I believe we think differently for a number of reasons. And how often it occurs is not the primary one. I said this in my initial reply and you flat out told me I don't know how my own thought processes work.