Opinion Science Fiction is a Left Leaning genre

This is a thread about the political stance of a large body of works of fiction, so I feel that Whitehall is the place for this thread rather than Spacebattles Main.

One thing that I can say with reasonable certainty is that over the two centuries or so of it's existence Science Fiction has far more often come from a left leaning source or has adopted a position that was left leaning (at least by the standards of the time). Let's look at a sampling of Science Fiction Works and Authors that most people would consider significant and were financially successful.

  • Frankenstein: written by proto-Feminist Mary Shelly.
  • Jules Verne: wrote works critical of Imperialism (Captain Nemo, an Indian who'd lost his family to British Imperialism and who hates the strong who oppress the weak).
  • HG Wells: Socialist with a lot of Socialist Ideals manifesting themselves in his work (The Time Machine is the big obvious one, but also the Invisible Man and The Sleeper Awakes) and was critical of British Imperialism (The War of the Worlds).
  • Issac Asimov: Prolific SF writer, atheist, feminist, die hard new dealer, supporter of LGBT rights when it was unpopular.
  • Superman*: Lead Character is an Immigrant, was used against the KKK.
  • Captain America*: A comic created in 1940 designed to embody everything American who's villain were Nazis. Unpopular run as a Anti-Communist figure got retconned into being an imposter. Often pitted against US Nationalists.
  • Twilight Zone: a lot of episodes were highly critical of society, usually from a left wing perspective.
  • Star Trek: has as an idealized future a techno-socialist society which a vast number of peoples have set aside their differences and strive together in which in which diplomacy and science are positive traits.
  • XMEN: Allegory against Racism and Prejudice in General.
  • Ursula K. Le Guin: Acclaimed SF writer from a Feminist and Environmentalist Perspective.
  • Star Wars: A dictatorship arises due to militarization and strong man politics and it and it's runaway military/industrial complex needs to be resisted by a rag tag group of teenagers. The basics of this came out just after the Vietnam War.
  • Alien Franchise: Has women in traditionally male roles as well as a corporation willing to send people to their deaths to gain control of the xenomorphs.
  • Mobile Suit Gundam: Highly popular and influential anime which has a distinct anti-war message as a core theme.
  • Terminator: US military builds a superintelligent AI which proceeds to start a nuclear holocaust and plans on exterminating all of mankind on top of feminist themes.
  • The Matrix: Made by a pair of Transgender Women with Transgender Themes woven into it.
  • Avatar: Ferngully in Space.
This is not a comprehensive list, of course.

This is not to say that these works are all the products of Perfect Leftists (especially given the argument you'd get in trying to define what constitutes a "Perfect Leftist") or are 100% Left Leaning even considering that the world they came from. Nor are we saying that Conservative Science Fiction does not exist, but it is a lot less common and a lot less influential. The most Right Leaning form of science fiction out there would probably be military Sci-Fi, but even that is not a hard and fast rule. Leaving aside the occasional reactionary like Kratman most military Sci-Fi for a long time has been onboard with a feminist idea of women serving alongside men in the Space Navy or as Space Troopers which was something many IRL conservatives oppose. A lot of military SF has roots in Robert H. Heinlein's Starship Troopers and Heinlein and while Heinlein at that point did have a lot to say about military service as a positive thing and all that he was also not a conventional conservative by any means. Some of the Post Apocalyptic stuff has a Right Wing bias to it, but post-apocalyptia is a more contested field since the cause of said apocalypse is usually something such as climate change or nuclear war brought about by militarism. Not to say there are not exceptions elsewhere, but those exceptions are less common and more marginal.

As for why this is the case, I can't say for certain. One possible factor is is that science fiction had been a more niche product for much of the twentieth century which was other than the norm, either current or historical. In "The 50-Year Mission: The Complete, Uncensored, Unauthorized Oral History of Star Trek: The First 25 Years" there are some comment about how a writer in the 1960s should quit that weird childish new Trek show and write some Western, though this is more of a historic reason. Maybe it's because people on the left tend to think more about where society is going in a more proactive way where things might be good (UFP, The Culture) or bad (Polluted Cyberpunk Dystopia**) but either way they'll be different from the status quo while conservatives think about an idealized present or romanticized and often mythological view of the past. But I would posit that there is some reason for this either in the subject manner or the culture which is prone to consuming it which leans left.

Would you agree with this or not?

*While there is a whole lot of fantastic elements in both their worlds, Superman is an Alien and Captain America is the product of advanced drugging/genetic modification/something vaguely on that line that would qualify as SF beings. Wonder Woman for that matter has always been a Feminist character, but she's a fantasy being.
**Insert "that's today!" Joke Here.

Zor

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Star Wars: a ragtag and sickeningly non-diverse group of religious extremists, criminals, terrorists and a dog reject their legitimate government and do 911 January 6th IN SPACE.
 
Also, Gundam does have anti-war messages, but it's also pretty damn clear that pacifism is a folly ideal in its multiverse. Especially when you get to stuff like Turn A and Wing where pacifism is outright mocked.

Zeon does have a lot of intentional Nazi imagery. It's because they were meant to be the easily understanble visual villians, ala the Empire in Star Wars, and that the Zabi family perverted legit reasons for independence and self governance into a family totalitarian dictatorship. Japan has a big soft spot for them because they recognize that Side 3 had some legit points.

These people keep grasping at fiction and attempt to shape it to meet their real world issues. It's the Harry Potter syndrome where everyone who disagrees with them becomes Voldemourt.
 
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This would imply that OP has actually read any of these books and didn't just read the rundown on Wiki and TVTropes.
Space Battles needs to change its name to something that more accurately reflects the interests of its anime avatar userbase. For what it's worth, I recall that OP had the same reception as he did here, but more politely of course.
How old was this post?
March 2020
 
Christ above, if it's the same one I vaguely remember that's a SB.com oldfag right there. Not particularly notable, I don't think he was one of the "Trooning out before it was cool" brigade like RocketGirl, Iceberg3K, and Thanatos/Athene. All pieces of shit, but at least Thanatos's slapfight with Tom Kratman was funny.
 
But remember, Lovecraft bad because he had uncharitable opinions about minorities that were pretty common for his era!
I think Lovecraft had a lot more in common with Terry Davis than being a huge actual racist. He was an agoraphobic that feared lots of things he didn't understand or feel familiar with more than he had a particular idea about how people of different skin colors were.

Truly the literary world is full of connected academics that got passes for befriending the right people more than anything they actually did or believed. How many people were friends with Marion Bradley or her husband? How many people did fucked up shit that gets covered up and condoned because to not would be the end of their career?
 
I think Lovecraft had a lot more in common with Terry Davis than being a huge actual racist. He was an agoraphobic that feared lots of things he didn't understand or feel familiar with more than he had a particular idea about how people of different skin colors were.

Truly the literary world is full of connected academics that got passes for befriending the right people more than anything they actually did or believed. How many people were friends with Marion Bradley or her husband? How many people did fucked up shit that gets covered up and condoned because to not would be the end of their career?
I don't think he was quite as far gone as Davis. I think of him as, to borrow a phrase from Washington Irving, a "nervous gentleman". Everything I've read about him seems to indicate he was rational, though always extremely fearful of losing his sanity (arguably, both his parents being institutionalized is a pretty good reason to fear that).

But that's getting away from my point, which you do address. My point really is, Lovecraft could certainly be described as racist or bigoted, but he never to anyone's knowledge actually did anything beyond talking about it whereas there are other creators who have done some truly vile shit (like Bradley, as you said, or Clarke as mentioned before) that don't get nearly as much heat.

In any case, lots of people of no real consequence love to tear Lovecraft down because they can't hope to create anything with such a unique and lasting legacy as the Cthulhu mythos.
 
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1. Cyberpunk 2077 and trannies
2. Star Wars and the ills of the majority becoming corrupt, also clones that look the same but act differently, sometimes.
3. The Matrix and how hedonism is just escapism for the M A T R I X
4. Literally the entire sci-fi genre is about the new, the left is an ancient decrepit mess corrupting academia and innovation into stasis. It is the anti-sci-fi if anything.
 
I don't think he was quite as far gone as Davis. I think of him as, to borrow a phrase from Washington Irving, a "nervous gentleman". Everything I've read about him seems to indicate he was rational, though always extremely fearful of losing his sanity (arguably, both his parents being institutionalized is a pretty good reason to fear that).

But that's getting away from my point, which you do address. My point really is, Lovecraft could certainly be described as racist or bigoted, but he never to anyone's knowledge actually did anything beyond talking about it whereas there are other creators who have done some truly vile shit (like Bradley, as you said, or Clarke as mentioned before) that don't get nearly as much heat.

In any case, lots of people of no real consequence love to tear Lovecraft down because they can't hope to create anything with such a unique and lasting legacy as the Cthulhu mythos.
True creativity is effort and passion. Its not something you learn at school. It's why people are captivated by ulilililia and Chris-chan for better or worse. Imagine working your whole life to do or be something and some retard steals your thunder without even trying, just being their dumbass self.
 
It's been mentioned before but a major problem with examining the political themes of creative works is that all too often we not only ignore the core philosophical themes therein and whenever we do examine them it's always through a taught lens of "If it is against racism, sexism, etc. it is therefore Progressive/Left-leaning".
This is college-taught historical anachronism. It's the same reason people ascribe any social change whatsoever as being "progressive", like the abolition of public hangings or the Colosseum games, or the abolition of slavery. If we were to abolish abortion then in fifty years it would be taught that abortion was rightwing and its abolition was a progressive movement. "The history of man is always moving from right to left" is something earnestly taught to people today.
It's true that a lot of Science Fiction is progressive, at least the popular bits that made it to television, but a lot of that is nuanced. Not everything is as extreme as Star Trek, which even then is affected by the intentions and tones of the day (see the difference between TOS and TNG with regards to casting and themes). Many works were written by left-leaning people, the kind CS Lewis referred to in his book "Screwtape Letters" as those who adopted a "purely literary and fashionable sense of Communism". However, most of the best works stand the test because it wasn't written as propaganda for a political ideology (mostly) but was written from the writer's own philosophy and principals. Politics wasn't their chief aim but was part of their overall worldview, hence the nuance in older works compared to the ham-fisted trash we've had to endure for decades.

As for visual media, we all know why it is the way it is and its intentions; you can hardly get anything adapted anymore without it having to be ground down and distilled through Hollywoodite politicization.
So anything that's against racism isn't necessarily "progressive" anymore than anything that's against slavery. Anything against war is hardly arguing in favor of pacifism, too. The idea that the "darker" or "brutal" ie bad elements of mankind are rightwing is a total leftist revision, much like how they never want to teach the true tenants and end results of Socialism.

Gundam Wing's entire motif is the argument of different philosophies and ultimately shows that pacifism is suicidally retarded and peace can only be maintained by defensive force (Endless Waltz is a necessary companion piece and conclusion to the entire debate of the show).
All that being said, I highly encourage anyone to watch the original Mobile Suit Gundam compilation movies and series thereafter, everything up to Char's Counterattack. Then read Beltorchilka's Children and keep up with the Hathaway's Flash movies as they are being produced. THAT is "Gundam".

It's as anti-left as you can get, especially regarding Zeta Gundam's themes, characters and dialogue. Zeta follows a young man with a girl's name fumble to understand not just manhood but mankind and the changing times--how women are now entering combat normally when protecting them was part of the reason men went to war to begin with, a natural conclusion to the first series' lament of how teenagers were being sent to war due to the cataclysmic death toll taking place. Then we go into how the leaders of the otherwise one-world government of Earth did nothing to stop a space colony being dropped (again) on the planet because it means less of a population to take care of, or how the space colonies exist really to make sure the earth doesn't get overpopulated--a global apartheid is instituted which instigates terrorism in Hathaway's Flash, etc.

Yoshiyuki Tomino, the original head of Gundam as a series, is by far anything but a leftist, and anything Gundam that he's written for mature audiences reflects that in character, plot and themes. The idea of Newtypes--mankind developing psychic power and supernatural connection to each other due to being free from earth in outer space--is a very on-the-nose theme of people being freed from the confines of what old, controlled and limited. However the argument of responsibility also weighs on every character in the entire series, especially Char Aznable. The futility of war is presented not because "war bad" but with the truth that you can't delude yourself into thinking patriotism bears meaning when the ones sending you off to kill and die care so little about you.

Once you get into Gundam Thunderbolt you see a drastic shift into arguing "both sides are bad and everyone is human", which Tomino never wrote. There was always a good guy side, one that was caught up between political elites and space Nazis. Gundam Unicorn was written by someone else, too, and damn does it show philosophically, to the point where it's just retarded mysticism and the idea that mankind's god is "OUR POTENTIAL BRO"--meanwhile Gundam teaches that mankind's only potential is in children to shape a new future, not in super robot retarded psychic powers and space mcguffins making us work together like frens.

EDIT: Although Unicorn does a great job exposing what was always subtle in the series previously, the nature of the military industrial complex and how the military contractors would even incite or prolong strife just to get more money and power. Aside from that and Marida Cruz the show sucks.

Beltorchika's Children is a great manga to read since it's adapted from Tomino's novel and leads into Hathaway's Flash which properly explores this theme of Gundam, that the only hope for mankind is in children, and yet mankind's "hope" of ending strife altogether is ultimately unachievable because those in power (symbolically earth's gravity) will always sacrifice it in order to keep the status quo.
Star Trek is fun but the idealism of a world without any need or want and where all mankind is a united whole is cussing retarded, beyond any stretch of believability. Gundam is the total opposite and very realistic despite the giant space robots. But that's because Star Trek was meant to explore interesting themes and adventures whereas Gundam explores mankind's struggles and philosophies. It's not simply that "war is bad", whatever faux Gundam fans want to argue.

Although a lot of anime does have "talk-no-jutsu" nonsense so I get that people would think that's what Gundam is like.
 
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>HG Wells was anti-1800s European Imperialism
>dat mean he agree with my identity politics

HG Wells and George Orwells warned us of people just like them, tyrants and wanna be tyrants. If they were alive today, you can bet they wouldnt be ashamed to call them out.

Politics changed A LOT from their time into ours. I think it also helped that a lot of political things like communism hasnt proven themselves to be a genocide tier bad idea.

Was also used against communists and is the embodiment of the American way.
The left haven't been about America since the 1940s.


LMAO the fucking lies...


False. The Wachoski freaks only said that after a lifetime of failed relationships and trooning out and taking their ball with them 20 years later.
The movie had none of that shit in it's development and filming.


Star Wars protagonists also believed in Monarchism and devotion to religion. The Jedi spout protestant values of sacrifice, perseverance, and discipline, as do the Sith, but aimed towards different goals.
Not to mention old-timey values like women in the back supporting the men who would do the actual fighting.

Everything in these lists are lies and the author reworking the original ideas.
Yes, many of these works were written by liberal/left-leaning men, but the contemporary left despises the values these men cherished like freedom, the individual, and avoiding degeneracy.
The left of yesterday wouldn't be on their side.


Cant do it because of Null's faggotry but here ya go.

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It became left leaning because it was gatekept heavily and authors who had different viewpoints were purged. It's now, "write what we want or never find a legitimate publisher again."

Even classic genres like Conan or Sword and Sandals fantasy has to be sanitized to meet modern woke standards.
The genre that literally creates visions of the future is pretty high on the "to take over" priority list for any political faction, especially one that believes the past is evil.
I bet that the majority if not all of the examples would face cancel culture for "bad representation" or "lack of diversity".

Also, no one needs to be a fucking communist to wish for people to get the money payed their work's worth (granted the worker isn't a fuck-off "I don't want to work so give me money" retard) or for nature to be less polluted.
The nature of leftism is never to stay in the same place, but to always move "forward" towards some yet unattained ideal. It makes it very easy to claim that everyone smart in the past (particular sci-fi writers) was leftist, if you define it by "advocated for stuff that a modern normie would consider a positive change" .
 
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Its kind of funny that Lovecraft is considered Leftist. Clearly, these people haven't looked into his history outside of storytelling. Highlights: Misanthrope, Homophobe, Nazi sympathizer....oh wait, this aligns perfectly with leftism. Disregard.
 
I think Lovecraft had a lot more in common with Terry Davis than being a huge actual racist. He was an agoraphobic that feared lots of things he didn't understand or feel familiar with more than he had a particular idea about how people of different skin colors were.

Truly the literary world is full of connected academics that got passes for befriending the right people more than anything they actually did or believed. How many people were friends with Marion Bradley or her husband? How many people did fucked up shit that gets covered up and condoned because to not would be the end of their career?
Yeah, if you know anything about him, his racism was just another expression of his extreme shut-in personality from being raised by the 19th Century equivalent of a Helicopter Mom in a gated community... when the family wealth ran out (and Mom was sent to a legit loony bin) he was tossed out into a world he wasn't trained to cope with and thus his suspicion and fear of ANYTHING that didn't match his limited childhood experiences.

He didn't think the POCs should be rounded up and sent to camps, he just suffered the same kind of "soft" racism my Grandparents did from growing up on Pennsylvania Dutchman farm that didn't have electricity or running water - Seeing a black person for literally the first time in their twenties was the same to them as seeing a Martian, and they reacted with never-really-unlearned suspicion. They never hated them, they always just saw them as "those weird people" , they'd never invite one over, but they'd never say "KILL EM ALL! ENDUT! HOCH HEICH!"

Product of circumstances "racism" should be acknowledged, but also treated as such.

But those who speak of Lovecraft in the current can't just say what I just did and let it go having proved/addressed the point, they can't separate artist from art and have to stop every 5 minutes, breaking the flow of their narrative to remind us that he was, BAD and we certainly shouldn't ever FORGET that.


The nature of leftism is never to stay in the same place, but to always move "forward" towards some yet unattained ideal. It makes it very easy to claim that everyone smart in the past (particular sci-fi writers) was leftist, if you define it by "advocated for stuff that a modern normie would consider a positive change" .
It's typical arrogance of the self-styled Future Ruler of Earth types to believe that things as they are today were an inevitable evolutionary state , and then credit other people in the past for being kindred allies responsible for creating it. Believing in both fate and self determinism, at the same time. Then using that as "proof" that their ideas moving forward are the only rational ones.... essentially the inverse of the "You know who else did X? HITLER!" - "Know who else had the right ideas like me? EINSTEIN!" - "Who should we follow going forward? Then? HITLER or EINSTEIN? And since I'm clearly NOT HITLER, you'll do what I, EINSTEINS buddy, say! (or it's concentration camp time!)"

Complicating this is the childish idea that all the proof you need that past geniuses were just like you is that they never actually took a stand against you.... Einstein HAD to be PRO trans, he never said trans people weren't scientifically possible!

"Author X was a big propenent of the Panthers Eating Faces Party"

"Wait a sec.... where in his work does he ever say he supports them?"

"Well, can you find a place where he specifically DENOUNCED them? Huh?"
 
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Yes, Starship Troopers, where certain rights are only afforded to people who choose to make a sacrifice for the system, to contribute and help propagate what keeps them safe. Rights that a rich boy from Buenos Aires couldn't even get via privilege, but from sacrificing himself for society. It's totally left-wing by advocating for social responsibility; unlike our current left-wing which wants rights and privileges, without the responsibility.

As for Gundam... He may not have named his cat Nigger like another author. But Yoshiyuki Tomino is/was very much an Imperialist for his native Japan. Yes Gundam carries an anti-war message; but it also has plenty to say about politicians who willingly sacrifice others for their own ends, all while avoiding being in battles or doing actual fighting. There's plenty of robot fights and war is Hell, but theres also a lot of "Your leaders are subversive snakes."
 
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