🐱 Why unmoderated online forums always degenerate into fascism

CatParty

8chan, an image and message board modeled after 4chan but committed to even less moderation, is in the news again after the revelation that the El Paso shooter used the forum to post his far-right manifesto moments before his killing spree. If confirmed, that would mark the third time a right-wing mass shooter has posted his plans and/or manifesto on the site.

8chan has faced massive criticism in the past 48 hours, and the original founder has even called to shut it down. Yet such public hand-wringing, and the fixation on 8chan alone, belies the true problem. For it is not merely 8chan's peculiar situation that makes it a haven for the far-right and white nationalism. Any online forum with the same combination of anonymity and lack of moderation will experience the same degeneration. Talking about 8chan as though it were unique in some way as a right-wing, white nationalist haven is disingenuous; the problem is far vaster, and far more intrinsic to the way that the internet functions.

“Online disinhibition” is the term psychologists use to explain why anonymous online masses behave in a manner that is crueler and more hostile than interactions we experience in real life. As I’ve written before, the lack of accountability, relative ease of anonymity, and the indirect nature of online communication combine to create an oft-toxic atmosphere online. Thus, on a forum like Twitter or Reddit, one person attempting to rebut another person's point is much more likely to exhibit hostility, to swear at or dehumanize them.

In essence, it is hard to remember an ideological opponent’s humanity online, as you cannot see nor perceive them — they are merely words on a screen. Those with larger online followings, or who post about politics, or who are women or another minority group, suffer more hatred and attacks from strangers. This, in part, explains why irony has become such a common online personality trait, particularly among Extremely Online millennials; adopting an irony-poisoned disposition is actually a great way to protect oneself from these kinds of attacks. Indeed, approaching online communication with ironic distance is a good defense against cruelty.

Yet the major online forums — sites like Reddit, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube — all include moderation tools to some degree. Intensely cruel, sexist or racist comments on any of those platforms are often filtered out so most users never see them.

Yet there are some sites whose creators eschew moderation in favor of online free-for-alls — and this category includes the -chan forums, like 4chan and, yes, 8chan.

The creators of these kinds of sites often fancy themselves free speech activists, as though being against moderation and in favor of free speech were the same thing (they're not). If these forums are marketplaces of ideas, it is curious that they have become dens of far-right hate — fringe political positions, and not at all representative of how most online denizens think and feel. How did the -chan sites devolve to this state?

To put it bluntly, the -chan forums have experienced what we call a “selection effect” in statistics. In other words, the people who spend time on, say, 8chan, and who express themselves on that site, are not a random sample size of the population; there is a bias that creeps in. Angela Nagle, perhaps the foremost chronicler of the history of the online alt-right, has pointed out before that these sites have a long history of users trafficking in transgressive, edgy, sometimes ironic and sometimes earnest far-right and white supremacist language and memes.

Of course, these -chan sites are open to anyone; you or I could navigate to 4chan right now and post whatever we want, without having to create an account, give up an email address or post a profile pic. Yet over time, those who have a distaste for edgy or white supremacist or Nazi posts will vacate the premises, leaving only those who can stomach it — who, again, are a mix of earnest fascists and nihilistic trolls.


Thus, in time, those who are earnest about their white supremacist or fascist feelings will feel at home there, and come there earnestly — and those types will outweigh those of other political stripes, and even outweigh the nihilist posters and lurkers who view such content with ironic detachment.

Hence message boards like 8chan can and will devolve into havens for far-right hate, at first because some users post such shocking content jokingly, and some in earnest, until the racist and hateful voices drown out the others.

Notably, 8chan regarded itself as a true protector of so-called “free speech,” more so than 4chan, whose moderators had deleted some of the more libelous GamerGate-related posts.

I don’t relish having to report this or diagnose how these things work. This should be regarded as some kind of online psychology law, so that we can stop misunderstanding what “free speech” is and we can stop letting the right claim that term as though they actually understand what it means.

Moreover, that unmoderated and unregulated online spaces will devolve in this manner should give libertarians pause. Anyone who thinks a lack of regulation will result only in good things needs to re-assess their ideology.

In any case, be very wary of any unmoderated online site that bills itself as a haven or a protector of “free speech.” Because of the selection effect and the reasons listed above, such forums will almost always devolve into fascist or white nationalist garbage fires, even as their administrators cry foul at those who seek to ban or moderate their excesses. This is just how it works: The combination of online psychology (the disinhibition effect), selection bias, and the weeding out of those who can’t stomach it will inevitably result in just another 8chan. 8chan may or may not be gone, but it is likely that another e-nihilist will naively start another unmoderated online forum, claim the mantle of free speech, and shrug his shoulders at all the far-right content right up until the minute that a mass shooter uploads their plans.
 
Makes me wonder how they'll memory hole this shit in a decade.

I do wonder how they'll try to spin this as some unique social movement that did a lot of good, after it crashes and burns as hard as the hippies did in the 70's.... and how they'll try to portray it as something everyone was a part of and everyone supported in the history books even further on than that.....
 
somethingsomethingorwelliansomethingsomething.

They arent even trying anymore, what the fuck are they implying here? that a heavily censored place is better for the overall freedom? Fuck off.
I should be able to call anyone a nigger faggot without fearing for my paypal account.
 
"...Always degenerate into fascism"
As usual, commies need to make sure the revolution is perpetual. This is a big thing in the far left mindset. The revolutionary state of mind must be maintained, so there will always be reactionaries, running dogs and fascists. It's just the nature of the beast. America's guilty of it too, we have the "War" on drugs or terrorism. A perpetual war waged upon a concept.
 
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I do wonder how they'll try to spin this as some unique social movement that did a lot of good, after it crashes and burns as hard as the hippies did in the 70's.... and how they'll try to portray it as something everyone was a part of and everyone supported in the history books even further on than that.....
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's just buried like America's other moral panics.

Nobody talks about McCarthyism,the Satanic Panic or Freedom Fries after all.

As for SJWs I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to whitewash them as "chill weirdos" like hippies in the 2030-40s.
 
Is TERFs trying to nest here? How did they become mods?

The better question is where aren't normies being turned into some form of TERF. I'm really good at ignoring the private, consensual behaviour of others, but I don't buy into leftist 3rd wave identitarianism , self-identifiying troonery, or gov't-mandated speech, punishable by fines that escalate into criminal punishment for failure to pay.

My actual objection is that a bunch of feminists that claim to hate the /r/gendercritical feminists are so unwilling to consider any criticism of their pet ideology that they'll demand over-moderation to protect them from hearing that criticism.
 
Or threadban people because all the feminists got incredibly mad that someone disagreed with them.

If they made me a mod and I was drunk/brain damaged enough to actually take the job I would, every so often, just threadban someone for a reason I completely made up. Or lock a budding thread I didn't actually care about. Not with any frequency or regularity, not against anyone high-profile, just once every couple of weeks I'd just ruin some autistic poster's day.
 
If they made me a mod and I was drunk/brain damaged enough to actually take the job I would, every so often, just threadban someone for a reason I completely made up. Or lock a budding thread I didn't actually care about. Not with any frequency or regularity, not against anyone high-profile, just once every couple of weeks I'd just ruin some autistic poster's day.

ResetEra is THAT------> a way, my friend.....
 
ResetEra is THAT------> a way, my friend.....

Well, to be clear, I wouldn't be aggressive with it. Just enough to remind people that hey, sometimes life will just kick you in the nuts and laugh.

This reminds me. I still for the life of me cannot fucking find out the whole story on that "User was banned for community hivemind trolling" post. I'm split between it being a photoshop with me being a gullible dumbass, or it actually being real and somewhere out there is a goldmine post of the lunatic who issued that ban trying to explain their completely fucking insane logic.

Drunk edit: Why do you have the sign to ResetEra pointing to the right?
 
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If they made me a mod and I was drunk/brain damaged enough to actually take the job I would, every so often, just threadban someone for a reason I completely made up. Or lock a budding thread I didn't actually care about. Not with any frequency or regularity, not against anyone high-profile, just once every couple of weeks I'd just ruin some autistic poster's day.
this is why you are not one, and hopefully never be one.
I'm not going to powerlevel too hard here so details will be kept vague, but i run a smallish russian site of about say, 200 to 400 regular users per month. There I have two seperate accounts, my personal user account which has no admin ability (though it can see any thread) and an account simply called "Admin". I do not use that account very often, I don't need to. For the most part I simply partake in the shitposting and enjoy life as a regular user. I separate myself as much as possible from that level of total power as a safety measure. These sorts of measures didn't evolve overnight but from decades of experience with online communities both as a regular user and admin. Casual abuse of power such as that will eventually lead to a total shitfest that will lay the foundations for the destruction of a site or your own removal from power.

in other words, you're a fag who doesn't deserve mod powers.
 
this is why you are not one, and hopefully never be one.
I'm not going to powerlevel too hard here so details will be kept vague, but i run a smallish russian site of about say, 200 to 400 regular users per month. There I have two seperate accounts, my personal user account which has no admin ability (though it can see any thread) and an account simply called "Admin". I do not use that account very often, I don't need to. For the most part I simply partake in the shitposting and enjoy life as a regular user. I separate myself as much as possible from that level of total power as a safety measure. These sorts of measures didn't evolve overnight but from decades of experience with online communities both as a regular user and admin. Casual abuse of power such as that will eventually lead to a total shitfest that will lay the foundations for the destruction of a site or your own removal from power.

in other words, you're a fag who doesn't deserve mod powers.

I have other plans to act like an egotistical jerk elsewhere anyway. I do think there is some merit to benevolent people occasionally abusing their powers to give people a firsthand experience in being told to shut the fuck up when they were actually right. If you're friendly all the time, you get a hugbox. Losing whatever worthless post you were going to make or being forced off a site for awhile is pretty harmless in the scheme of things. Encourages people to go outside, or maybe do something useful for a bit to cool off.
 
I have other plans to act like an egotistical jerk elsewhere anyway. I do think there is some merit to benevolent people occasionally abusing their powers to give people a firsthand experience in being told to shut the fuck up when they were actually right. If you're friendly all the time, you get a hugbox.
Sadly here in the Federation we have no lack of the first and I make sure that it never turns into a hugbox, People are free to insult each other and myself as much as they want. It's why I have a personal account, so that newfags feel less scared of calling me a bitch and whatnot.
 
Sadly here in the Federation we have no lack of the first and I make sure that it never turns into a hugbox, People are free to insult each other and myself as much as they want. It's why I have a personal account, so that newfags feel less scared of calling me a bitch and whatnot.

Well, that's kind of my point, in a sort of fucked up way. A ruined day here or there might get spurn some sperg into thinking a little more actively. Which could lead them either to greatness, or to complete fucking insanty. You get to feel good in the former case because you're watching someone succeed, and in the latter case you get to laugh at them and call them a gay nigger tranny. Everyone wins. Except the people who lose it, but whatever.
 
"...Always degenerate into fascism"
As usual, commies need to make sure the revolution is perpetual. This is a big thing is the far left mindset. The revolutionary state of mind must be maintained, so there will always be reactionaries, running dogs and fascists. It's just the nature of the beast. America's guilty of it too, we have the "War" on drugs or terrorism. A perpetual war waged upon a concept.

I mean, they're not wrong, racists, fascists, etc will always be around. They'll be less prevalent and less powerful, but they'll still be there.

I think the big thing in that mindset is less "the enemy will always be there" and more "the enemy is always this close to seizing power, and thus we must fight them at all costs".
 
I mean, they're not wrong, racists, fascists, etc will always be around. They'll be less prevalent and less powerful, but they'll still be there.

I think the big thing in that mindset is less "the enemy will always be there" and more "the enemy is always this close to seizing power, and thus we must fight them at all costs".

Yep.

The right is perfectly happy with a society where 85% of the public is not being dicks to each other. You'll still run into dicks, but they don't rule the world. That's just life.... you can't make everyone like everyone without fundamentally creating an unhappy world through coercion and stomping on human rights.

The left wants 100% of the public not being dicks, cannot suffer a single dick to live, and, will murder the 15% the right will leave alone before they'll see their dream utopia they are THIS close to making come true be derailed by just a few..... wrongthinkers, even if the rule of law, Constitution and all human individuality burns in the process... the ends justify the means. You have human rights, yes, but those are only for the people living the right way, and killing 1 in 4 isn't that bad, really, I mean, MOST people still get to live, right?
 
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do the A&H people tend to report hugbox breakers?
Why would I report a saltlick?
The left wants 100% of the public not being dicks, cannot suffer a single dick to live, and, will murder the 15% the right will leave alone before they'll see their dream utopia they are THIS close to come true, even if the rule of law, Constitution and all human individuality burns in the process... the ends justify the means.
The left is everything that they profess to hate about Christianity, weaponized against the soul of every man, woman and child on this Earth. They've grown tired of waiting for Heaven to come, so they've thrown off any limitation and decided we'll build it right now, whether you like it or not. They won't even allow you the chance to repent of your sins; they'll destroy you and create a monument to your ignominy for their adherents to spit on until the end of time.

Of course, there's no end to sins in their philosophy and more can be conjured up to condemn anybody who so much as chuckles at their preening and cavorting. Hell, they even have a multiplicity of Original Sins that depend on a person's heritage or race and which are, of course, immutable.

These are the people who profess to be the enlightened.

At least they're good for a laugh.
 
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"...Always degenerate into fascism"
As usual, commies need to make sure the revolution is perpetual. This is a big thing in the far left mindset. The revolutionary state of mind must be maintained, so there will always be reactionaries, running dogs and fascists. It's just the nature of the beast. America's guilty of it too, we have the "War" on drugs or terrorism. A perpetual war waged upon a concept.

Being in state of war ain't necessarily a bad thing due to the competitive nature of humans. Problem starts when such war are stupid. Also, revolution ain't always the same as war.

funny fact: Che Guevara believed in this mindset, that communists should be in constant state of revolution. That's why he got fed up with Fidel and the Russians (who he thought had become too bureaucratic) and decided to go to Bolivia to fight there and died.
 
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