Why aren't capitalist countries becoming communist like Marx predicted?

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No one on this thread actually has read anything. So uh yeah I do.
Marx was a cretin, everything he said was proven false, and every attempt at implementing his retarded religion has led to millions of deaths.

Nobody gives a shit you've wasted your life reading retarded treatises written by leftists. Much like Marx, vomiting out a lot of words, or consuming the vomited texts, does not make anything you say true.
 
Because it was a delusional idea that people would work hard to create something and then be satisfied just giving it all away and get nothing back. For people who had nothing it was an easy sell because every poor person thinks if they had lots of money they would be generous, and if they had two loafs they would be OK giving away the other, but once you start accumulating it you seldom just give it away.

Communism is nothing more than a feeble idea held together by those in power at the top who have everything and think they can sell having nothing to everyone else. The reality is all communism eventually turns into capitalism as people crave accumulation of items.

Marx claimed capitalism exploited labor, while he asked an entire population to work for the lowest wage and state of existence possible and sold them on it. An easy sell to people starving who worked hard and still starved to death.
 
Hilarious.

Oh my gosh, I don’t expect people to be marxists, I’m not a Marxist, (as anyone who knows me could tell). What do I expect is honest engagement with the literature and the subject matter. Sociology, class conflict, “why does capitalism still exist?” (Something serious people actually engage with in an academic fashion) No one has actually answered this beyond trivialities.

As for why capitalist countries didn’t become communist?

1. Higher standards of living, including for the working classes.
2. More social institutions that other elements of society beyond the ruling class could participate in and shape, this gave people a stake in the current order.
3. The fear of communist revolution even in the western world was very real, if one does any actual historical research. From Spain in the 30s to Germany in 1919 of course. The US had violent labor strikes in the early 20th century.

It’s ultimately historical contingency really. More developed state apparatuses. More solidified middle classes with something to lose, management of discontent that mostly worked.

There’s your answer.
 
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Marx was a cretin, everything he said was proven false, and every attempt at implementing his retarded religion has led to millions of deaths.
Marxists tend to be cretins, but Marx certainly was not. Marx described his ideology as the "ruthless criticism of everything that exists." Marx had the ability to admit when he was wrong about stuff, and could criticize himself. Marxists don't have that intellectual honesty, and it's why a lot of them rather engage in historical revisionism and dogmatism. There's a lot you can learn about communism, and its practice, if you take the time read the policy discussions, debates of communist leaders and officials. It's much more illuminating about the practical implementation of his ideas than what you'd get from a proselytizer of Marxism. Even the deaths you speak of were avoidable, and you can trace the decisions that led to them to these very policy debates.But at the end of the day, it really just ends up just trivia and not very helpful for solving modern political and economic problems.
 
The TL;DR is that Marx was fundamentally incorrect about the material condition of the world and attempting to reduce it all down to who has gibmes and who doesn't is just plain bad historiography, sociology, or both. There is genuinely nothing to be gleaned aside from broken-clock-truths

Realistically, Marx was worse than a cretin. He was a silver-spoon sucking nepo-baby who had the gall to demand his parents pay for him to fellate himself intellectually with Engels. He couldn't write worth a damn, the best theories to implement Marx all utterly reject classical Marxism's origin myth, and no, none of the deaths that happened were avoidable in the grand scheme of things. Marxism is just that fundamentally wrong on the state of human nature that the only answer it can have to dissent is oppression and removal, bloody or otherwise. Marx had no clue what the working class was like, how they thought, or how they would react when presented with any stimulus one way or another.

His historiography pretty much completely failed to anticipate otherwise capitalist countries attempting to negotiate with workers and offer anything to them, crumbs or otherwise. Even in Tsarist Russia, there was a land reform campaign to end the feudal system they had, which the Bolsheviks pretty much memory holed and ruined precisely to get their vanguard party. Had they done nothing, Russia likely would have broken out of the alleged death knell of capitalism conditions they were in under the old serf-based system. This moment pretty much proves that nothing about Marx comports to reality, and it's all just some German having an intellectual wank about not being god-of-everything.

Funnily enough, in the wake of all this, as more communistic ideas were piece-meal accepted into society, it created the very conditions Marxists complain about. More economic management led to alienating corporate from the desires of the public while making it harder to attain any sort of individual advancement due to red-tape, something Marxism cannot solve as scarcity will always exist and will always create a knowledge problem for central management, the only way to kill capitalism.

Also... Rate of profit is a bogus statistic that means nothing. It genuinely has nothing to do with anything and is effectively trying to tie together unrelated items and then soy out over that you measured a thing. No sane economist uses it, leftypol out themselves as retarded illiterates if they mention it, it is 100% pure, uncut, country-fried bullshit.

Also also, I have read Marx. He is a godawful writer who cannot condense his thoughts to save his life and is pretty much the posterchild example for someone who has nothing to say and so says far too much in the hopes you'll ignore that he's bullshitting you. This is also how I know classical Marxism is a completely dead theory, he actively predicted history would end after the World Wars and with that coming and passing he is a doomsday prophet without a doomsday. 0/10. Would not recommend unless forced at gunpoint.
 
His historiography pretty much completely failed to anticipate otherwise capitalist countries attempting to negotiate with workers and offer anything to them, crumbs or otherwise. Even in Tsarist Russia, there was a land reform campaign to end the feudal system they had, which the Bolsheviks pretty much memory holed and ruined precisely to get their vanguard party. Had they done nothing, Russia likely would have broken out of the alleged death knell of capitalism conditions they were in under the old serf-based system. This moment pretty much proves that nothing about Marx comports to reality, and it's all just some German having an intellectual wank about not being god-of-everything.
Marx argued that countries like Great Britain and United States could achieve socialism through the democratic process, and Engels said the United States government, a democratic republic, could be the basis of a dictatorship of the proletariat. They were pessimistic about it happening in Germany or Russia because they were absolute monarchies without any form of competitive elections or independent political parties. So, he actually did anticipate your point, which is why he defended trade union rights and freedom of expression as a way for the proletariat to gain political power and implement their ideas .

Many of the misconceptions about the Bolsheviks, you have, are a bit superfluous too because it misses the political context they were in, or what they actually tried to do.
regalterry dijo:
will not be lectured by a fat, slovenly, alcoholic, philandering kike that never worked a day in his life and scammed everyone around him about anything, and certainly not about economics.
That's fair, but it is interesting stuff if you take the time to look into it.
 
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The Bolsheviks were primarily interested in resolving the backwardness of Russia's economy, Communism, as an ideology, was secondary to that. People get too hung up on the Bolshevik "Revolution" because they think too much about communism, and not enough about the fact it was a country where 80% of the people there could not even read and were peasants. It's why Lenin quipped "communism is electrification." I think one of the many problems people have, especially communists, is they don't understand there are many ways to solve economic problems, besides one, and you have be able to account for the trade offs of that. Just being idealistic about stuff will get you no where.
 
Marx argued that countries Great Britain and United States could achieve socialism through the democratic process, and Engels said the United States government, a democratic republic, could be the basis of a dictatorship of the proletariat.
History did not end after WW2. He was wrong, don't carry water for him because it makes it all the easier to point out how every sub-branch of Marxism is just more bullshit layered on.
So, he actually did anticipate your point, which is why he defended trade union rights and freedom of expression as a way for the proletariat to gain political power and implement their ideas .
He didn't. End of story. FDR as a president genuinely defies his historical progression, and I will now go vomit for needing to praise FDR.
The Bolsheviks were primarily interested in resolving the backwardness of Russia's economy, Communism, as an ideology, was secondary to that.
Then they should have shut up and let the Tsar resolving the backwardness of Russia's economy do his work.
Many of the misconceptions about the Bolsheviks, you have, are a bit superfluous too because it misses the political context they were in, or what they actually tried to do.
They aren't misconceptions. They ruined Russia to remake it in their image after realizing the Tsar was actually responding to the concerns of the proles and creating petite-bourgeousie that would forever lock off their influence.
People get too hung up on the Bolshevik "Revolution" because they think too much about communism, and not enough about the fact it was a country where 80% of the people there could not even read and were peasants.
... something the reigning Tsar was actually trying to fix with proper land reforms. The kulaks as a class existed exclusively because of this, they were serfs who had worked for not just their farms, but had earned enough to hire other former serfs for wages, not serf-labor.
I think one of the many problems people have, especially communists, is they don't understand there are many ways to solve economic problems, besides one, and you have be able to account for the trade offs of that. Just being idealistic about stuff will get you no where.
Oh, Lenin wasn't idealistic at all. He knew exactly that the commie dream was dead if the Tsar was allowed to fix the economy. So he mobilized Russia's drunk, stupid, and derelict into the lumpenproles, made them get violent, and destroyed the system that made wealth in the kulaks so that communism could be realized.

I really don't have many misconceptions about the Bolsheviks here. They were well and truly evil sumbitches who were not meaningfully interested in fixing anything. They were power hungry idealists at most, Stalins at worst.
 
History did not end after WW2. He was wrong, don't carry water for him because it makes it all the easier to point out how every sub-branch of Marxism is just more bullshit layered on.
You're being unnecessarily combative. I disagree with Marx, but your characterization of him, and communism, is really poor. You come off as someone who probably got into too many internet arguments with Sovietsboos and can't let it go. Its difficult to have a substantive conversation with you, because of your preconceived biases, so I'm not going to entertain that and continue the thread with unfruitful dialogue. I've already said enough.
 
You're being unnecessarily combative. I disagree with Marx, but your characterization of him, and communism, is really poor.
Yes. There's nothing nice to say about Marx and I give him a poor characterization because that's about as much worth as he intellectually has.
You come off as someone who probably got into too many internet arguments with Sovietsboos and can't let it go.
No, I actually read Marx and realized his work is a moron talking about shit he's never had any experience with.
Its difficult to have a substantive conversation with you, because of your preconceived biases, so I'm going not going to entertain that and ruin the thread with unfruitful dialogue.
Because you're still trying to accept Marx had value.

He does not.

His views are genuinely worthless and only worth acknowledging so they can be shot down ruthlessly.

Anything he said, someone else said better.

Anything his movement attempts destroys whatever nation that attempts it.

They provably have ill intent, save maybe Marx who was just that stupid, and there is no communist movement that can exist and be well meaning given classical Marxism is a dead ideology. All of the offshoots need to be some variation of subversive to accomplish anything and are all predicated on breaking society before trying to fix anything with an ideology that has no pathway or track record to get there. Someone else mentioned falsifiability earlier, they were completely correct to do so. If classical Marxism cannot exist, and it cannot thanks to his doomsday prophecy failing, there is no pathway to a theory to try honestly that does not run afoul of being unfalsifiable by revision, and so all modern movements are dishonest ones, be they Sorellian, Gramscian, or Leninist with a vanguard party.

No, if I wanted to be uncharitable, I'd call Marx a kid-fucker-in-waiting based off of his essays on the family and connections to the postmodernists who for sure had and hid pedos, Michael Foucault being the biggest one. OP's asking primarily about the economics, which is why I was charitable in sticking to that. But if we really wanted to go there, one big reason is that communism is pro-kid-fucking. Source: Marx himself.
 
By murdering millions of Christians.
Christians, long before the Bolsheviks, were persecuting and killing each other for stupid shit. The Bolsheviks weren't even unique in that regard. Marx did not support that, in fact, he argued religion would wither away with education. But, again, I get it, you're just shitposting and I'm done.
 
No, I actually read Marx and realized his work is a moron talking about shit he's never had any experience wit
Anyone who claims "I've read Marx" instead, of proving it, hasn't actually read him. You are just a 2025 join date not worth responding to.
Ah, you're a Jew. That explains it.
The Bolsheviks killed fags, jews, and communists dude. You're just a dumb /pol/tard.
 
Anyone who claims "I've read Marx" instead, of proving it, hasn't actually read him. You are just a 2025 join date not worth responding to.
Sayeth the person failing their own standard who is apparently unaware of Marx's worse sides and his affiliations and has nothing to respond with. In his essays on the family, he was rather explicit about the orgies and that kids would participate. If you won't be charitable, neither will I, and unlike you I have actually read his work across numerous books. The only reason he isn't a monster is because he's too ignorant to accomplish much himself.
Christians, long before the Bolsheviks, were persecuting and killing each other for stupid shit. The Bolsheviks weren't even unique in that regard.
And this is irrelevant. They killed Christians. All you're admitting is that the bodycount should be higher, and I agree. Let the genocides instigated by the Bolsheviks be writ large for the masses. Let their corpses stand forever as a statement for how evil the ideology is at its core.
Marx did not support that, in fact, he argued religion would wither away with education.
And the Bolsheviks did support it, bankrolled it, instigated it, and then moved onto the Ukraine to genocide after Marx's pie in the sky hypothesis got proven wrong.
 
You do realize: that FDR was very conscious of the risk of revolution right? As was Bismarck? Social reform-trade unions, public welfare, etc… were all implemented in part because the ruling classes feared working class revolution, as much as worker unrest often demanded it.

the above poster is also correct in stating Marx felt that more developed capitalist economies might achieve socialism through what amounted to a public referendum. The clinger is that trade unions and public welfare more or less satisfied the western working classes. And the labor parties and trade unions in the UK or the Netherlands or whatever were fine with the system as is. Rather than forcing some sort of confrontation by demanding that referendum.

Communism is anti religion. Persecution of religion was tragic-but I do think Marx was largely right about the sociological function of religion.

People want heaven because it fundamentally defers their discontent with their lives on earth.


let me quote the entire thing “
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.”

This is a long winded way of saying-religion is both a projection of human longing, alienation, and dissatisfaction, which both distorts the real source and real solution to the actual causes of these things, religion goes away when the initial conditions that sustain its power are dissolved.

While religion in human cognition is more complex than this-I do think that more or less this is true. Religion reflects human aspirations, and is a salve on the pain, misery, and indignities of “real” life.

He didn't. End of story. FDR as a president genuinely defies his historical progression, and I will now go vomit for needing to praise FDR.
Hardly, all FDR did was provide material needs and services during the Great Depression. This is what marxists call concessions. The capitalist ruling class giving the workers stuff to mollify their discontent.

Because Karl Marx was a few hundred years too early. Communism can only work in a post-scarce society which we're approaching closer and closer to, but we're still perhaps half a century to a century off. At that point though it wouldn't even be "Communist" it would be more akin to what we see in for instance shows like Star Trek: TNG where you can just "materialize" your own food and have an infinite amount of it, but that wouldn't necessarily mean the concept of work would just disappear, rather transform into something completely different. That's implying a post-scarce society is possible in the future though, and we don't nuke ourselves into oblivion and that Capitalism ever gets phased out.
You say this, but forget that capitalism requires scarcity. Scarcity of labor primarily. If everyone could just tap into zero point energy or something and get whatever they imagined out of it-capitalism would collapse-because without people having to work to survive and no capitalism firm able to sell anything-all profit drops to zero.
 
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