What makes civilizations great?

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queerape dijo:
An ability not to back down from challenge. For example, even if we have only 12 years or whatever to deal with climate change, if we are a great civilaization we would focus on it being better then nothing at all and use those 12 years wisely.
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> Believing in anthropogenic climate change theory in 2019
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug dijo:
> Believing scientific predictions by people who have been crying apocalypse for decades straight

It's always 12 years to apocalypse in the global warming cult's minds.
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What do you mean by "apocalypse"?

Anyway, it's already too late to entirely stop all bad effects of the increased surface temperature, we are now deciding how bad it will be.

Edit: by "we are now deciding", I'm not talking about scientists, I'm talking about governments and their policies.
 
Vecr dijo:
What do you mean by "apocalypse"?

Anyway, it's already too late to entirely stop all bad effects of the increased surface temperature, we are now deciding how bad it will be.

Edit: by "we are now deciding", I'm not talking about scientists, I'm talking about governments and their policies.
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I don't recall a specific example but even when I was a little kid people like Al Gore were making outlandish claims like that NYC would be under water in ten years, and my parents could remember countless cases of that shit from before I was ever around.

They'd always throw out the doomsday scenario as being right around the corner, and then it wouldn't materialize.

Regardless of how much you understand the science or not (I don't know a lot about it), at some point you just assume it's bullshit. Given that it's also mainly pushed by the crowd of people who want us to cut our dicks off, take our large sodas away, and give everybody free money, that makes it even more suspect.

Plus, you don't usually go around trying to criminalize an idea unless there's some truth to it.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug dijo:
I don't recall a specific example but even when I was a little kid people like Al Gore were making outlandish claims like that NYC would be under water in ten years, and my parents could remember countless cases of that shit from before I was ever around.

They'd always throw out the doomsday scenario as being right around the corner, and then it wouldn't materialize.

Regardless of how much you understand the science or not (I don't know a lot about it), at some point you just assume it's bullshit. Given that it's also mainly pushed by the crowd of people who want us to cut our dicks off, take our large sodas away, and give everybody free money, that makes it even more suspect.

Plus, you don't usually go around trying to criminalize an idea unless there's some truth to it.
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UBI, if done correctly could reduce the size of the government, that's good, right?

Al Gore is quite stupid, he is not a scientist.

But yeah, sea level rise is a real thing, look at some areas in Florida.

Anyway, climate change is probably not going to end all life on earth or anything, just make it considerably worse.
 
Vecr dijo:
UBI, if done correctly could reduce the size of the government, that's good, right?

Al Gore is quite stupid, he is not a scientist.

But yeah, sea level rise is a real thing, look at some areas in Florida.

Anyway, climate change is probably not going to end all life on earth or anything, just make it considerably worse.
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In reference to the UBI, giving people something for nothing is never a good idea.

One very simple approach that would "solve" poverty without any of the negative effects of freebies would be subsidizing work hours and providing a jobs guarantee for labor. If you need a job, the government gives you something to do, even if it's just make-work (like stacking rocks). If you have a job but have a low income, you're given additional pay from the government for every hour worked instead of being taxed.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug dijo:
In reference to the UBI, giving people something for nothing is never a good idea.

One very simple approach that would "solve" poverty without any of the negative effects of freebies would be subsidizing work hours and providing a jobs guarantee for labor. If you need a job, the government gives you something to do, even if it's just make-work (like stacking rocks). If you have a job but have a low income, you're given additional pay from the government for every hour worked instead of being taxed.
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Sounds complicated.

All you need for UBI is for the census bureau (a department defined in the constitution, IIRC) to send people checks.
 
Vecr dijo:
Sounds complicated.

All you need for UBI is for the census bureau (a department defined in the constitution, IIRC) to send people checks.
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Well, sheeeeit, guess we should just start paying people to sit around because the IRS can't be assed to increase everybody's

It's easy as hell.

If you need unemployment, you get money/rations, but you have to do some sort of work to get it, so that people don't just go on unemployment to be lazy.

If you make below a certain amount of income, you get a tax subsidy with your check.

The downside to a tax subsidy (versus minimum wage) is that it means the government is paying it instead of the companies, but the upside is that you don't have the higher unemployment that minimum wages cause.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug dijo:
Well, sheeeeit, guess we should just start paying people to sit around because the IRS can't be assed to increase everybody's

It's easy as hell.

If you need unemployment, you get money/rations, but you have to do some sort of work to get it, so that people don't just go on unemployment to be lazy.

If you make below a certain amount of income, you get a tax subsidy with your check.

The downside to a tax subsidy (versus minimum wage) is that it means the government is paying it instead of the companies, but the upside is that you don't have the higher unemployment that minimum wages cause.
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Well, I guess one point of UBI is that people don't need to do busy work the government comes up with, and can start a business or do science or some shit.
 
I'd say a similar ethic majority(just looking in the same group) and a good character is what makes a civilization great. Probably some form of natural eugenics, which isn't a necessarily a bad thing in of itself. Probably some source of outside conflict that causes it to innovate and create "hard times, good men": A time of peace and war. This would probably be key to eugenics. Taking care of its citizens and being xenophobic to outsiders as in, be highly hesitant to include outsiders and prevent a overrun of the native population. Other than that, taking care of its borders to maintain tribe diversity. It's good to maintain the tribes, in a way that works and is cohesive.
 
Sorry to bring back this thread from the dead but I saw this article about the collapse of western Europe and by extension, western civilisation, who was worth to share.

The Collapse of Western Europe Into Third World Chaos

Could Western Civilization be preserved in Eastern Europe just as Roman Civilization was once preserved in Byzantium, which is (almost) Eastern Europe? Considering that Eastern Europe is so much poorer than Western Europe and many of the nations there seem to have a lower average IQ and higher levels of corruption, than countries such as the UK, the question may seem bizarre. But my own recent research, combined with other emerging data, is leading me to think that the question is increasingly reasonable.

I’ve written a lot in recent years about how the West, like the Roman Empire, is likely to collapse due, in part, to dysgenic breeding among Whites: Intelligence is strongly genetic, it’s behind every aspect of civilization and there is a negative association, especially among women, between intelligence and fertility, such that we are losing about 1 IQ point per decade for genetic reasons. Imperial Rome clearly witnessed a negative relationship between socioeconomic status – a strong proxy for intelligence – and fertility and, likewise, went into decline. It also witnessed immigration from the periphery of the Empire, where conditions were often easier, so historical selection for intelligence wouldn’t have been as intense. Either way, as my colleagues and I set out in our study “Intelligence Trends in Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of Roman Polygenic Scores,” we know that Roman intelligence went into decline during the Late Republic for genetic reasons.
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Jeb-sama dijo:
Having a gigantic army is probably the most important thing.
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It isn't. The most important thing for civilization is to have a population of humans instead of niggers. The second most important requirement is your population needs to have been taught values like to respect each other and to plan ahead, to act constructively instead of destructively. Niggers counteract the first requirement, and Jews subvert the second requirement. Having an army is only important insofar as it can be used to kill niggers and Jews.
 
Primarily the ability to effect change that outlasts the civilization itself. So technological change and to a lesser extent arts/other culture, philosophy
Secondarily, the ability to provide a good lifestyle for its people.
Thirdly, having a fairly free society (labor is free, representative institutions in government, free speech and inquiry). Things that separate us from animals and are ultimately necessary for #2 and #1.
Fourthly, sustainability: can it defend itself. It doesn't have to live forever, but it does have to be able to fend off enemies long enough to do something cool.

Ideal civilizations tend to be small and based around republican city-state governments. They tend to be tolerant (and their kind of tolerance was VERY different from the bullshit Leftie kind we have today), commercially inclined (which often means maritime) and yet are often combined with intense religiosity. Usually have an intense commitment to access to education/information that facilitates the technology and cultural development.

Civilizations I consider peaks:

Achaemenid Persia (very early, very flawed, but for the standards of its day excellent)
Classical Greece, particularly Athens
The Roman REPUBLIC. The Empire was SHIT
Anglo-Saxon England and Kievan Rus/are relatively nice for Medieval kingdoms
Italian, Hanseatic and Novgorod merchant republics
The burgher cities of the Holy Roman Empire
Possibly Poland-Lithuania, but I have heard some people who know far more than me argue that it was an awful society
The Dutch Republic
Age of Liberty in Scandinavia
Britain in general, but especially the Scottish Enlightenment
To a lesser extent the post-Revolutionary French and pre-Weimar Germans
I don't personally like Austria-Hungary's premise, but it produced a ton of science, it's kind of a point against my story of Protestantism and representative govt
America from the first colonies to the Wilsonian Era; after the Wilsonian Era is just decline in quality to the point it's a force for evil now
Argentina before it went to shit (around the same time as our Wilsonian Era)
Meiji, Taisho and post-MacArthur Japan
Potentially South Korea, but emerging around the same time as Globohomo kind of fucked them up
Singapore

If I relax standards to include societies that are just nice without needing any long-term achievements:
Potentially the Cherokee and Iroquois
The Boers
Cossacks

You may notice that this really comes in three waves:
Classical Antiquity, Greco-Roman civilization (WINNER: Greece, Trophy: Philosophy)
Catholic urban civilization of the late Middle Ages/Renaissance (WINNER: Italy, Trophy: The Renaissance)
Protestant Europe and its colonies (WINNER: America, Trophy: Moon Landing, the Internet, Modern Music)

Not an accident. Greek philosophy was the foundation of healthy and happy societies. Christianity took the fine moral foundations of Greek philosophy and gave it power by combining it with a god that people could take seriously; I think the idea of a Creator God and afterlife, and mythology to make it feel "real" and give it strength for normal people, is necessary. Christianity was in a very defective state until the Radical Reformation allowed it to be unleashed in its full potential. We're in the death of the second wave, but there will - many centuries later - be rejuvenation again and something better.

What is not listed? Most all of the Middle East, most all of Asia, the Mesoamericans and Incas and Asian Indians. Big empires on maps don't impress me. I don't give a shit about them. What impresses me are cultures that can ease the pain of their peoples.
 
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