Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[SteelPlatedHeart]

They can’t really use the “racist” excuse for people hating Velma because literally EVERYONE hated it on all political spectrums and everything.

 

[LucasSomething]

...is... is her name Lunala? Not even just Luna, but Lunala?
why the hell are they trying to push relatability with a name like that?
and why can't I stop laughing because I just keep imagining the fucking bat pokemon in her place?

Also, yeah. The original was a guy named Moon Boy. That's all I know since a name like that screams "D-tier sidekick", but I remember it was Moon Boy and Devil Dinosaur.

Sorry it's actually Lunella Lafayette but for some reason my brain registered it as Lunala cause luna = moon so it made too much sense.

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The wikipedia also straight up reveals that the "original moon girl" was her grandma and there is no mention of moon boy whatsoever so i guess he was hard retconned out of this existence. Also just found out this cartoon is de facto part of the MCU canon, with guest appearances from mcu maria hill and some ant man character.

And what little intrigue I had for that show has been shot in the face. That and it sounds like Lunala is Kim Possible with the charm sucked out of her. Or a reject from the nuProud Family.

devil dino is stil very powerful and cool but from a writing point it's basically a wild animal that she tamed and made her pet so they simply do fluffy dog jokes with it and it's funny because it's not a dog but a huge dinosaur. "Lunela's future girlfriend" legit has way more screentime AND plot focus than him, at least on episode 1.

I didnt mention the humor but i also found it miserable to watch, with Lunela's arc being the most generic and cliché superhero shit and her having zero charisma. This show has that MCU/modern cartoon syndrome where characters never stop blaberring and there's barely 1 second of downtime between the next joke that is either overexplained or too sudden.

And speaking of kim possible, i find pretty funny how well Kim as a character aged compared to other disney protagonists. Kim is not a quirky lunatic like mabel, luz or star nor a token minority preaching progapanda, she just a competent action girl played straight. There is no cynical selfawareness like modern disney princesses, Kim is supposed to be the coolest and she IS the coolest.

 

[Yamma Damma]

And speaking of kim possible, i find pretty funny how well Kim as a character aged compared to other disney protagonists. Kim is not a quirky lunatic like mabel, luz or star nor a token minority preaching progapanda, she just a competent action girl played straight. There is no cynical selfawareness like modern disney princesses, Kim is supposed to be the coolest and she IS the coolest.

What's more? There were moments where she let her own awesomeness get to her head only for life to give her a reality check (at times it came from Ron!) without making her stuck in a valuable lesson cycle or a bitch you hoped lost. That's an issue many, not all, chick MCs have (including Lunella based on your description): Pride without the fall.

Disagree on the "no cynical self awareness" bit. Kim Possible was known for parodying and poking fun at cliche'd superhero/supervillain tropes at times. Best examples: TeamGO had a communicator with their nemesis and didn't realize he could eavesdrop on their meetings. And Ron giving "better villain advice" was how the Senor Seniors got the idea to become villains too.

However they were few and far between, not every episode or every other sentence like other cartoons. We know youre in a cartoon show morons, you gonna pause for 5 seconds waiting for me to say "backpack" next?

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

And this is why the live action Kim Possible sucked ass, because they made Kim a overly—hyper competent Mary -Sue who literally had a mental breakdown the second someone else was better than her at something.

 

[LucasSomething]

What's more? There were moments where she let her own awesomeness get to her head only for life to give her a reality check (at times it came from Ron!) without making her stuck in a valuable lesson cycle or a bitch you hoped lost. That's an issue many, not all, chick MCs have (including Lunella based on your description): Pride without the fall.

Disagree on the "no cynical self awareness" bit. Kim Possible was known for parodying and poking fun at cliche'd superhero/supervillain tropes at times. Best examples: TeamGO had a communicator with their nemesis and didn't realize he could eavesdrop on their meetings. And Ron giving "better villain advice" was how the Senor Seniors got the idea to become villains too.

However they were few and far between, not every episode or every other sentence like other cartoons. We know youre in a cartoon show morons, you gonna pause for 5 seconds waiting for me to say "backpack" next?

Kim has what i can only describe as a "barbie like charisma". She is aware of how competent and feminine she is but instead of being a bitch, she is very wholesome about it, making it clear she is not insecure. She is still a teen so she might grow an ego and makes mistakes but she gets called out.

I meant that kim possible isnt cynical self aware. It's definitely tongue in cheek and knows it's a low stake action/comedy show but still takes itself semi seriously while being completely earnest about it, which is WHY it's charming. You ever watched that part of Phineas and Ferb when someone asks them if they' too young to build a space ship and they say yes and its funny every time? Or how no matter how dumb doof's plan is, Perry will always face him 100% serious?

KP is like that where it's never pretentious or "stupid", its trying to be a fun show but also wants you care about it. The villains are wacky but they're still tangible threats capable of learning. Ron might be weak and dumb but he's genuinely trying to help and Kim says she is unironically proud of him. Kim and Ron relationship is especially good because it's actually healthy from both sides and becomes canon without killing the show with shipper drama.

Is there any other action/comedy cartoon with a female protagonist like this? Or any modern one at all? Cause it feels like they all end up too cynical, preachy, stupid or edgy for their own good. I tried to watch OK KO for example but it felt like 99% of the cast was retarded so when they try to do shit like actual gun control commentary it becomes funny by accident.

 

[Betonhaus]

They are their original skin colors - including the redhead, so that's promising.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

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fetish bait is back on the menu boys

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

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They are their original skin colors - including the redhead, so that's promising.

I just hope they do not neuter the redhead, while making the brown girl insufferable and forcing the bottom girl to be ashamed of herself for existing.

Spoiler

My apologies for not remembering the names for these girls. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the original Totally Spies, so I’m cautiously hoping CN does not piss off what is left of their remaining base that bothers to watch their content on the network.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

I just hope they do not neuter the redhead, while making the brown girl insufferable and forcing the bottom girl to be ashamed of herself for existing.

Spoiler

My apologies for not remembering the names for these girls. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the original Totally Spies, so I’m cautiously hoping CN does not piss off what is left of their remaining base that bothers to watch their content on the network.

Sam, Alex and Clover, I think?

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Sam, Alex and Clover, I think?

Yes! Thank you for this, Not-So New Guy.



I literally am missing these girls like you can’t even believe, and the reboot is not until next year. They were the best examples of Americanized anime girls made by the French with care that one could get. Even if it was silly, I just hope it’s done justice.

 

[Betonhaus]

This is Season 7, but hopefully there's a rollup of key canon points before they show up to avoid confusion.

There's also a Totally Spies video game coming out next year too

 

[Doctor of Autism]

fetish bait is back on the menu boys

Oh god, I can't wait to see what weird crap they'll try to pull.

 

[Betonhaus]

Oh god, I can't wait to see what weird crap they'll try to pull.

If it's anything like halo we will probably find out in the first episode.

 

[Georgio Cocklord]

@Georgio Cocklord : lol calm down. Make the shit you want to see more of or keep searching/waiting until you find it. Puss in Boots:TLW is all said and done, they're not changing anything and have no control over who likes it or dislike it. There's no point in making your fingertips scab on the keyboard over weird nobodies.

Fair I just like sperging out bout entertainment stuff, not necessarily against retards. But couple final additions

name a single slow-mo shot in that movie
having less frames =/= fucking slow motion

This is in reference to snyder who does slowmo to show comic book panels and in spiderverse the places which have less framerate are doing something equivalent to slowmo in live action, theyre either emphasizing the shot and panelling or emphasizing character movement. Its similar to how when anime tries to adapt manga there are action shots with action lines animated in slow motion or with a low framerate to emphasize the punching or the fighting. It works in anime cause its a bit more stylized, works with the artstyle and works in tandem with the editing as anime and japanese films in general have more fast and action packed editing than western shit. I just dont think it looks good in spiderverse and its a bad precedent to set.

How in the world is that oil-pastel?! Seriously, how
Just because there's some color blending doesn't mean it's oil or pastel
if anything, Puss in Boots is way closer to that seeing as a lot of the shading looks like it was done with brush strokes (even if we all know that's just a specialized shader) and most of the colors are naturalistic

It has that dishonored visual style, its very much like an oil pastel painting with some cel shading and sort of a very clay like texture with clothes fur skin whatever. Its very present in Arcane and Spiderverse, a little less present in puss in boots. It combined with the low framerate stuff contributes to them looking weirdly like a mishmash of 2d and 3d figures which doesnt look that great. I also find the colors too saturated, people call it naturalistic and yes theres some truth to that but in a storytelling medium, naturalistic saturated colors dont work as effectively in visual communication like high contrast limited colors. They blend too easily with everything else and look too bright with all the orange neon and the like.

 

[SecretMagicalGirl]

This all you need to know about the current state of western animation.

I have only seen online adults praise and talk about the Owl house, or Amphibia. And all other cal arts style shows for that matter. I mean They might be good shows for all I know, but I just don’t see children, you know the target audience, being that into them at all.

Meanwhile, in real life, most kids I have seen have been wearing Mario hats from the Mario movie…

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Man, i only wish Alex isn't turning a lesbo in this CN version.

 

[Toxinophile]

Just out of interest, what ratio would you consider it acceptable for people to be weirded out?
Let's imagine it was some other current issue. How many times would a cartoon need to show the Gaza or Israli flag or have episodes about using and servicing firearms before you're allowed to vocally express "That's a bit wierd, innit?"

The ratio is ultimately meaningless. whether the show is 100%, 10%, or 1% woke, people will feel weirded out and reactionary all the same and then forget about it next week. I felt like I needed a number to see how justified the outrage was and honestly I will say it's not. Woke moments in cartoons these days are a dime a dozen and everybody knows it. People don't have to point out that a woke cartoon is woke or how regular cartoon had a woke moment every time it happens. They are just mindlessly stating the obvious and I just don't care anymore.

This apathy is not weird or surprising because whether you like it or not, this is the NORM now. It's normal these days for stuffy creators to believe themselves fated to change the world thru their shitty Netflix cartoon for kids. It's normal these days for selfish artists to express their indulgent feelings onto the animation as fact. CURRENT YEAR has allowed social-issue minded, overly-socialized industry socialites to disregard their original audience, in favor of impressing their equally over-socialized industry peers.

I get it. This shit sucks. Forced Identity politics have no room for western animation but unfortunately opinion is not reality. The best anyone can do is to move on or at least put extra thought into what they watch. Better than screeching the same tired talking points and catchphrases within all 600 pages of this thread. Meanwhile Imma go back to playing the new Zelda game.

 

[InsolentGaylord]

The ratio is ultimately meaningless. whether the show is 100%, 10%, or 1% woke, people will feel weirded out and reactionary all the same and then forget about it next week. I felt like I needed a number to see how justified the outrage was and honestly I will say it's not. Woke moments in cartoons these days are a dime a dozen and everybody knows it. People don't have to point out that a woke cartoon is woke or how regular cartoon had a woke moment every time it happens. They are just mindlessly stating the obvious and I just don't care anymore.

This apathy is not weird or surprising because whether you like it or not, this is the NORM now. It's normal these days for stuffy creators to believe themselves fated to change the world thru their shitty Netflix cartoon for kids. It's normal these days for selfish artists to express their indulgent feelings onto the animation as fact. CURRENT YEAR has allowed social-issue minded, overly-socialized industry socialites to disregard their original audience, in favor of impressing their equally over-socialized industry peers.

I get it. This shit sucks. Forced Identity politics have no room for western animation but unfortunately opinion is not reality. The best anyone can do is to move on or at least put extra thought into what they watch. Better than screeching the same tired talking points and catchphrases within all 600 pages of this thread. Meanwhile Imma go back to playing the new Zelda game.

If people don't talk about it, then that's the same as creating the impression people like it.

So it's not a good idea for people to "shut up and take it".

It's also a good idea for people to not watch those shows as they are actually legit unwatchable and terrible.

 

[Anonitolia]

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They are their original skin colors - including the redhead, so that's promising.

They look kind of the same but also not
there's something off about the style I can't really put into words
I think I'm just not used to the colored outlines lol
at least they tried to keep the pseudo-anime look
I have 0 hopes for the actual quality of the show because regardless of what 4 year old me thought this show was never good (rewatching it made me want to tear my hair out, I hate how the girls talk with a passion), though I do hope they stick to the original's spirit and keep the perversion to arguable fetish bait instead of the usual agenda-pushing
I'm only half-joking. I kind of want them to lose the fetish shit, for obvious reasons, but I'm also hesitant to say the show would be better without it. That fetish shit is like half of why the show ever stood out in the first place, so i'm not sure if making it more forgettable would really improve it. In terms of engaging the audience, I mean.

-snip-

this defeatist mindset is exactly why people keep complaining
regardless of whether it's the norm, it is fundamentally wrong and it deserves to be criticized and rallied against
granted, mindlessly repeating "this is woke it is bad" isn't exactly my favorite form of critique, though sometimes it's worth doing if it really is the largest issue plaguing a show (and that's usually because wokeness comes hand in hand with TERRIBLE writing: eg Velma, Moon Girl, etc)
I do wish the thread could focus on other shit sometimes, but just laying down and taking this gross shit like you're doing gives me reason to just want more of it instead
Taking away children's media in order to pander to the mentally-unwell is twisted, and spreading that mental illness to the children through the last remaining bastions of what they have to watch (for entertainment!) is outright evil and should not just be accepted as normal

 

[Pop-Tart]

I meant moreso the people who acted like kids cartoons were super duper deep and actually for adults.

This. The Animation Community is full of (wo)manchildren that claim to "care" about animation, but all these lazy faggots do is watch cartoons made for toddlers.