Were Panzer tanks actually good?

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Inspired by this youtube video that I can't decide if it actually factual or not:
tl;dw: The panzers were overdesigned mediocre tanks that only gained infamy due to Americans hyping them up, and having the later tanks get a good K/D ratio in fights where they had the tactical advantage.
 
depends on which ones you are talking about
from what i know some models were highly successful and effective at their job, like the panzer 3 and panzer 4, and especially the stug 3 (panzer 3 based assault gun)
but some of the later, heavier versions (most notably the tiger) were plagued by reliability issues related to their excessive weight, which made them much less effective than originally hoped for. their battlefield performance was still great, but not great enough to justify all these problems they caused.
 
depends on which ones you are talking about
from what i know some models were highly successful and effective at their job, like the panzer 3 and panzer 4, and especially the stug 3 (panzer 3 based assault gun)
but some of the later, heavier versions (most notably the tiger) were plagued by reliability issues related to their excessive weight, which made them much less effective than originally hoped for. their battlefield performance was still great, but not great enough to justify all these problems they caused.
Basically this. Part of the issue was you had a bunch of different companies making the tanks, so one generation could be good, but the next was ass
 
In ideal conditions yes, they clearly out performed every other tank of their weight class bar the heavy and super heavy's, though those were being rushed out near the end of the war when Germany was in a losing position, scarce of resources, and it makes sense for them to be of lower quality.

The issue isn't that they were bad by any means, but were very resource and engineer intensive. They also couldn't handle the variety of terrains they were deployed on as a result of these logistic issues when it came to parts and battlefield engineering knowledge.
 
especially the stug 3 (panzer 3 based assault gun)
The stug was pretty damned effective and if I recall correctly german command really wished they had more of the things.
later, heavier versions (most notably the tiger) were plagued by reliability issues related to their excessive weight
The Tiger's design philosophy was influenced by "let's put an 88 in this thing" primarily so it makes sense that its' drive train would have issues. In comparison the USA, when designing the Sherman, built it on top of the M3 Lee's chassis which had been tested for years in peacetime and in battle in North Africa.

The Panther was a pretty good one but by the time they were getting produced resource constraints were hitting hard and I think they also had drive train issues that hampered their effectiveness.
 
The answer is really a moving target.

At the outset of WW2, the tank designs of all the combatant countries were essentially all shit.

I've seen it argued that 1940 era French tanks were the best in Europe. But they got steamrolled by other factors such as the fact that French manpower still hadn't recovered from WW1 (so they purposely designed tank turrets to be smaller at only 1-2 men, requiring the tank commander to double as gunner, instead of commanding the tank).

I also understand that doctrine played a role in early German tank victories, as the Germans had dedicated tank divisions that could take advantage of speed. While the French considered their tanks to be infantry support, so their mobility and organization was limited to walking speed.

The window before a version of a tank became obsolete during WW2 was very narrow. When the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, they were surprised to encounter secret T-34 medium and KV-1 heavy tanks that were almost impenetrable to anything the Germans had.

But within a year, the heavy KV-1 more or less was removed from service since it was too slow and German anti-tank improved enough to make its armor redundant.

British tanks in general started off shit and remained so.

Italian tanks similarly were never respected.

The Czechs had some decent early war designs, but they were swallowed by the Nazis early with annexation and put into service for the Axis.

Japanese tanks were mostly shit.

The US started WW2 without a true tank. They had lots of time to fool around with prototypes due to their late entry. In the end, they mostly decided to forgo the light/medium/heavy tank doctrine of the day and mass produced the serviceable but all-round mediocre Sherman medium tank, much like the Russians did with the T-34.

The Sherman was nothing special in terms of firepower or armor, but it was decent enough and produced in such numbers that it won the day on the battlefield even if it wasn't the superior design.

The Germans Panzer Is and IIs which defeated Poland and France were nothing really that special, but won with numbers and tactics. The Panzer IIIs and IVs that fought the Soviets were better designs, but not any better than the Russian models they were fighting. The late war Panthers and Tigers were the best engineered tanks of the day. But were also heavy, unreliable, complex and expensive to make and in the end simply too few produced.

As @DumbDude43 noted, the Germans also were producing mostly turretless StuG assault guns by the end of the war. They were taking the tank chassis from their old panzer designs and slapping on a casemate with a gun with very limited traverse in the thousands just for simplicity.
 
Yes, but they aren't as good as they are "on paper", and this is illustrated rather painfully in games. Unfortunately this applies to literally every tank in WWII where every machine was one bump in the road from being totally fucked. There was no men of war moment where "10 mm of Muh superior german steel" deflected HVAP with the power of math and there probably weren't very many "ting ting ting kaboom" World of tanks moments where a 50 cal bullet sends a piece of shrapnel through 4 crew into the gas tank.

Were they overhyped? Yeah probably. Because the US tanks driving in were looking out a metal slit for a giant fuckoff gun that their armor would only make worse in enemy territory. And the "yah yah, you hit me so many times but mein armor resisted it due to secrets I'll only tell you if you save me from the russians" continued for about 30 years after the war ended.

The truth of the matter is that at the end of the day WWII were basically armored tractors with guns strapped to them driven by farmboys. Oh yes, there was a giant, fuckoff, massive amount of work put into these very important, very heavily armored, very cool tractors, but you aren't going to end up with invasion of Afghanistan situations where one team gets knocked out before they even know it's a fight and the other had tanks getting hit 40 times by RPGs and 0 crew losses. Hence, all power scaling shit is kind of a moving game dependent on when and where. And a lot of whether it was good or not depended on how specifically it fucked up the tank used by the last guys.
 
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It was very telling, that since the Germans still relied on horses to transport troops, that the German Panzers were overrated. It also reminded me of this comment that I saw on Car and Driver, in regards to another over-engineered car in the 2025 Mercedes-AMG GLC63 S E Performance:

exp4696
17 October, 2023

This brings back my grand father's WW2 stories of German tanks vs the Soviets' T-34. He used to tell me that the German tanks were very sophisticated....but needed an army of engineers (with tools and parts) behind them to keep them advancing in Soviet territory. They were practical and fast to go across the street (being France) but not so much for the long harsh terrain of the Soviet Union.

This is the memory that pops up when I think of this new GLC. Great piece of engineering in a lab setting but not so much for real life situations.
 
Tl;dr Yes and no, but thanks to the internet, you'll never get a straight answer.

The Panzers on the whole were effective fighting machines. The problem about this argument is that the academic world and armchair historians, retards they are, are in a pissing match over "Muh revisionism" and "Muh propaganda myths".

During most of the Cold War, thanks to NATO wanting to have a Bundeswehr with a strong ethos, and the ability of many Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS vets to write books with varying whitewashing and realistic information with no Soviet input because of the Iron Curtain, started the myth of the invincible Tiger and the Flak-88 and such. This led to the school of thought that created the Wehraboo, who says the Allies only won through numbers, b-but inferior machines, etc. etc. But now the pendulum has swung in the opposite, with r*dditors and Commieboos, who say shit like the T-34, a piece of shit by any metric, was a glorious design, saying "Well the Germans only won on luck," and "Ackshully, German tanks bad!" So what used to be "facts" like the invincible Tiger, are either continued to be pushed by "based" people, checked with skepticism by smart people

Nevermind the kill ratios being lopsided even towards the end for the Germans, and other inconvenient facts like it, the reason we are having this argument is because two sides of a retarded coin are having a slapfight for the impressionable mind of the drooling World of Tanks subscribers for who's political ideology was better, despite the argument being about a tractor with metal and a cannon welded onto it.
 
Panzers were extremely good, well-engineered, up to date machines, which when designed, especially the early ones, did not anticipate rapid advances in tactics and armaments, terrain, specifically in the East and above all the enemy's capacity to ramp up production of their own tanks and armaments.

Pz.Kpfw I - IV performed well enough in blitzkrieg tactics as they were never designed for duelling other tanks. Their role was to suppress soft-target enemy fire and allow the infantry to overrun enemy positions and move into their rear. The Soviets had limited numbers of T-34's at the beginning of Barbarossa., a far superior tank and they employed them in attempts to engage the German armour, which they successfully dodged and proceeded with successful blitzkrieg tactics.

By 1943, T-34's were numerous enough to become a problem for the Germans, a problem they have already anticipated and began to remedy by tendering for what became Pz.Kpfw V & VI, the Panther and the Tiger. They also allowed for the realities of the Eastern front - mud and dense anti-tank fire. The new tanks had wider tracks and sloping armour. But by this time it was too late. The Soviets had ramped up production capacity and the T-34 design had enough reserve built into it to counteract most of new advantages the Panzers had. T-35-85 matched up to them fairly well and with better tactics allowed the Soviets to outmanoeuvre the Germans when things were not in their favour. To wit: the King Tiger was so slow that the tactics was not to engage it at all. Flank it, let the crew run out of fuel and pick it off from the side or behind.

The new Panzers were not repairable in the field. This is a problem that the Soviets had in the beginning of the war with T-26 and the BT's. The tables were now turned. And again and most importantly: the Germans could never produce enough of these new excellent tanks. Their economy was collapsing, they were cut off from primary resources and it was only a matter of time, which turned out to be another 2 or so years.

On the Western front, the British Churchill and Valentines were outclassed, but again remember tank duels are not the tank's primary role, Killing machine gunners is and they did that just fine. American Shermans were a bit better and could match up to late German armour on relatively equal terms. The famous Cologne footage is a Panther-Sherman duel with fatalities on both sides.
 
The most important thing the germans did was give all tanks radios and actually practice proper combined arms co-ordination with them. That said, german armor of the war ranged from a hacked-up french artillery tractor with a big gun on top of it on an open casemate to actually very good designs like the Panzer 3 that simply did everything you needed a tank to do circa 1940 to overtly ambitious tanks named after cats, designed more to impress generals than to actually be what the army needed.
 
The biggest issue German tanks of WW2 had were a) logistical issues, b) manufacturing issues (esp. late war) and c) (also late war) issues with green crews who would frequently lose their nerve and abandon their machines before even engaging the enemy.
The usually mentioned problems experienced by the "Big Cat tanks" i.e. the Panther, Tiger and Tiger II are misrepresented or blown out of proportion: For example their engines delivered hp/ton ratios comparable to tanks fielded by the Allies and their combination of interleaved, large road wheels, large suspension travel height and broad tracks gave them excellent cross country mobility.
So no, fat homosexual youtube essayists and reddit "anti-wehraboo" """historians""" are retarded and full of shit.
 
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I checked my World of Tanks stats and the answer is the E-100. You are welcome.
Sorry but Maus > E100

But for a serious answer, Germany's tanks were built earlier than most of the nation's tanks. Especially right after WWI, that treaty that restricted their mobilization and the whole Weimar Republic shenanigans. This was cool especially at the onset of their blitzkrieg tactics but later down the line, the other nations managed to catch up and build tanks that would counter most Panzers, this also includes unfortunate weather conditions that restricted Germany's advance. They also tried to rig various stuff into the Panzers with mixed results once they hit various roadblocks, hence why you have Jagdtigers and Jagpanthers (including that abomination known as the Ferdinand). That and the whole "parts that can't be replaced in the heat of battle" stuff made the Panzers late-war a joke.
 
Panzer I was never intended to be anything but a training vehicle I believe. Still gave good service

Panzer II good light tank, Wehrmacht got far into Russia with it even when T-34s and KV-1s started coming in decent numbers. That's more because the Red Army tank doctrine was retarded and training was bad and lack of radios but the Germans still did it

Panzer III okay tank, tank design improved so much so fast it was definitely a transitional type model

Panzer IV decent when they put a 75mm gun into it, armor wasn't sloped enough

Panther very very very good tank, despite fuel pump and other problems from design being rushed

Tiger I too heavy, armor badly sloped, nice gun tho

Tiger II same

The tank destroyer models they had were kinda okay I guess, nothing special, some were bad some were alright. The StuG definitely gets overrated, unless it was firing first from good cover it wasn't so good. The Germans used it the right way though which is why it was so effective
 
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