Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

[Tren Shapiro]

My point that the ancients didn't have anything as powerful as we do still stands.

They had opium.

What they had was probably more akin to what we'd call "supplementation". In fact I'd argue that even pre-workout + creatine + good diet is gonna be more powerful than anything they had because of modern refining and synthesizing technology allowing you to achieve higher concentrations of stuff at cheaper prices.

Add to that the fact that food is generally cheaper and we know how much protein and such is in the food (and is optimal to eat) and the fact that we can just get herbs and shit from ANY CORNER OF THE GLOBE and that leaves the ancients IN THE DUST.

Do you know how much creatine there is in beef? It's like 5 grams on the kilo. That's ONE GENEROUS SCOOP. Do you know how much testosterone there are in balls? According to this, in human testicles its next to FUCK-ALL, not even considering that you might not even absorb all of it. Apply the same pattern to a LITANY OF OTHER SUBSTANCES, herb extracts, caffeine etc and you see why I say the ancients are IN THE DUST.

Now that I have established that we get better shit than the ancients could fucking DREAM OF, I'm gonna ask WHY EXACTLY DO WE CONSIDER TREN A PED BUT DRIED BALLS TO BE A SUPPLEMENT?

The short answer is that it simply does not have the sheer impact that the PED does have. Younkeep hearing about differences in natty vs enhanced training, that the roiders recover faster, grow faster, might have muscles that outgrow the tendons and so on. But if you ask the same exact question about people who drink pre workout vs people who don't you'll probably come up with "people who drink pre workout can rest 30 seconds less" or some shit. And the impact real PEDs have was not achieved by the ancients.

I said PEDs have existed for thousands of years. We've gone from "lol lmao even" to "Yeah, but like... not steroids." to "Yeah, but they were only consuming a small amount of testosterone." to "Doping didn't exist in Ancient Greece." to "Ancients didn't have Trenbolone."

Obviously they didn't have the drugs of today. But if they did, they would've used 'em.

IMAGINE THE MOUNTAIN OF BALLS AN ANCIENT WOULD HAVE TO SCARF DOWN EVERYDAY JUST TO EQUAL AN ANAVAR TABLET.

 

[Jasper2K]

Well if someones on steroids and can't at least bench 315 or squat and deadlift 405 your going to be in for a bad time eventually. The steroid body isn't actually attractive to a lot of woman folks.

 

[ITK]

They had opium.


I said PEDs have existed for thousands of years. We've gone from "lol lmao even" to "Yeah, but like... not steroids." to "Yeah, but they were only consuming a small amount of testosterone." to "Doping didn't exist in Ancient Greece." to "Ancients didn't have Trenbolone."

Obviously they didn't have the drugs of today. But if they did, they would've used 'em.


Ver archivo adjunto 4397424

>Opium
Fucking opium Yeah sure go ahead and use a fucking sedative that induces drowsiness and relxation to win a race.

Nigger nothing's changed: they did not have PEDs, they didn't have steroids, they didn't dope, and bull testacles still do literally nothing.

 

[MS Paint Gigachad]

They had opium.

Yeah and we have refined opium. And chemically modified opium which is thousands of times stronger than the original.

I said PEDs have existed for thousands of years. We've gone from "lol lmao even" to "Yeah, but like... not steroids." to "Yeah, but they were only consuming a small amount of testosterone." to "Doping didn't exist in Ancient Greece." to "Ancients didn't have Trenbolone."

Obviously they didn't have the drugs of today. But if they did, they would've used 'em.

My friend, do you not realize how much this smells like hay? Do I not literally say that a modern supplement regime (let alone actual PEDs) is more powerful than anything the ancients had? Do you not remember my first post weighing in on the matter opening with "Nobodys denying that testicles/special herbs/mushrooms/coffee (caffeine) even etc existed in ancient times, were used for performance enhancement, or even were effective."? And am I expected to completely share the opinions of the other people?

Prove you read at anything above a 6th grade level, construct an actual counterargument and we'll talk.

 

[Tren Shapiro]

>Opium
Fucking opium Yeah sure go ahead and use a fucking sedative that induces drowsiness and relxation to win a race.

Every anti-doping organization bans opiates. I'm sure telling WADA ">imagine unironically believing pain killers are PEDs lmao" will make them reconsider.

Nigger nothing's changed: they did not have PEDs, they didn't have steroids, they didn't dope, and bull testacles still do literally nothing.

Opium is a PED and they were consuming testicles which contain testosterone which is an anabolic steroid. Would you like to guess where the test in the word testosterone comes from?

Prove you read at anything above a 6th grade level, construct an actual counterargument and we'll talk.

A counterargument to what? You're arguing against points I didn't make to try to back up your main point which is essentially just "They used substances that enhanced performance but I don't want to call them PEDs."

 

[CowPox]

I always thought the idea behind testicle consumption was that it was high in zinc and it gave you a harder boner and bigger loads or some such? Same with oysters iirc...

 

[ITK]

Opium is a PED and they were consuming testicles which contain testosterone which is an anabolic steroid. Would you like to guess where the test in the word testosterone comes from?

They contain an extremely miniscule amount which doesn't matter at all in the first place because "the testosterone taken orally would be inactivated by the first-pass effect in the liver" and "all testicular organ therapy administered orally can only be considered as a placebo medication".

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

Lol. Liver King didn't get that big by scarfing down raw bull testacle. The idea that prairie oysters are somehow anabolic is a meme. Your bollocks produce your testosterone but virtually all of it is in the bloodstream, and what miniscule amount is present in the testacles will get broken down when you eat it anyway. It does nothing, except for being a good protein source like any other part of the animal.

Having a healthy diet is not "doping", don't be silly. Doping by by definition didn't exist in ancient Greece, which is why athletes lacking arete would have to resort to cheating by bribing judges and whatnot. Listen, I don's see your point here. Meat is not even close to comparable with steroids, and I think you know that. "Nutrients" are a bare necessity for life and are present in basically everything we eat, creatine also is naturally occuring (although I don't think in very effective doses), which is why you're still natural if you take it. That and the fact that it A) isn't very potent, and B) doesn't take away or replace anything from your own biological system with an artifical product. Anabolic steroids did not exist until testosterone was first synthesized in the 1930s, and did not become cheap or commonplace in bodybuilding until the 50s. All the greats of the Bronze and Silver Era, and all those ancient Hellenes, in their athleticism and beauty, were all completely natural.

My point about historical “doping” is that was what used to be considered cheating, and I would personally count taking drugs, like types of mushrooms, that would dull pain or hype you up as doping.

 

[ITK]

My point about historical “doping” is that was what used to be considered cheating, and I would personally count taking drugs, like types of mushrooms, that would dull pain or hype you up as doping.

Ok gotcha, but what's the source for that, if I may ask? What mushrooms are there that grow in or around Greece that have those effects? What I can find as a source is a Foreign Policy article by a historian mentioning how athletes would sometimes use black magic and quack potions containing "dried mushrooms, exotic herbal concoctions, animal hearts and testicles, and even an opiates-laced juice cocktail". The only thing there which could have an actual effect would be opium, but to what extent I do not know (@Tren Shapiro looks like I was wrong, still don't really see the relevance, but there you go). The mushrooms did about as much as the sheep testacles, in other words.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

Ok gotcha, but what's the source for that, if I may ask? What mushrooms are there that grow in or around Greece that have those effects? What I can find as a source is a Foreign Policy article by a historian mentioning how athletes would sometimes use black magic and quack potions containing "dried mushrooms, exotic herbal concoctions, animal hearts and testicles, and even an opiates-laced juice cocktail". The only thing there which could have an actual effect would be opium, but to what extent I do not know (@Tren Shapiro looks like I was wrong, still don't really see the relevance, but there you go). The mushrooms did about as much as the sheep testacles, in other words.

I don’t know off the top of my head exactly what mushrooms I’m the area could have been used, but just spitballing here it’s not unlikely there was something similar to the well known aminita muscaria mushrooms that Vikings used in berserker rituals to grant them “inhuman strength and resistance to pain”.
My definition of doping is simply taking something that is against the rules of your competition. Caffeine used to be banned by wada, fun fact. I just like the history of sports and I find these old rules interesting.

 

[Tren Shapiro]

They contain an extremely miniscule amount which doesn't matter at all in the first place because "the testosterone taken orally would be inactivated by the first-pass effect in the liver" and "all testicular organ therapy administered orally can only be considered as a placebo medication".

Yes, this is why testosterone comes in injections, topical gels, and subdermal implants.

They were using anabolic steroids, just ineffectively.

My definition of doping is simply taking something that is against the rules of your competition. Caffeine used to be banned by wada, fun fact. I just like the history of sports and I find these old rules interesting.

The new rules are fascinating. In some organizations men can compete as a woman with the testosterone levels your doctor will tell you as a man is normal.

 

[Troon Meet Noose]

My flat feet and knees aren't built for leg day, plus I get no enjoyment from it. I don't really fuck with the barbell, I use machines or dumbbells. I can lift pretty heavy and I'm hoping to gain more defined muscle. I need to focus more on abs and back than I do.

If you don't squat, you're a pussy. Yes it is hard but unless you're crippled there's no excuse not to when you're at the gym.

 

[Polystyrene Glioblastoma]

I find working out is akin to a spiritual high for me. I like stretch in front of the mirror and get my mind right, it's like I can "feel and see" the bright chi armor with my 6th sense and I feel strong enough to get through my sets.

If you don't squat, you're a pussy. Yes it is hard but unless you're crippled there's no excuse not to when you're at the gym.

I'm a disabled veteran and my feet, knees, and ankles aren't one of a spring chicken. Plus, not working out my wonky layghs makes my arms look bigger. 8) (I will try to do squats like you say though tonight, it just hurts like a bitch.)

 

[Vingle]

I'm a disabled veteran and my feet, knees, and ankles aren't one of a spring chicken. Plus, not working out my wonky layghs makes my arms look bigger. 8) (I will try to do squats like you say though tonight, it just hurts like a bitch.)

Even tho leg day is important, please don't overwork yourself and make the pain worse. See a doctor for it, if you need to.
Only doing a leg press machine may be the best bet for you, At least in the beginning.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Even tho leg day is important, please don't overwork yourself and make the pain worse. See a doctor for it, if you need to.
Only doing a leg press machine may be the best bet for you, At least in the beginning.

Good advice, work around an injury/problem, not exacerbate it.

Found doing squats are probably the worst for my knees (I'm only in my early 30's but knees are shot already), the pain is just unbearable. Isolation exercises though (curls, extensions etc) with a lower weight but higher reps seem to have little to no side effects pain wise and still able to get gains.

 

[CowPox]

Today,

50lbs dumbell seated shoulder press 14x4
Front raises 30lbs 14x4 alternating

 

[MS Paint Gigachad]

Tried bent over rows for the first time today. Lower back pain, so I'd switched to the Yates variation. Did it with dumbbells to get the "cambered bar" effect since a straight bar would collide with my torso; also because I can use different hand angles. Did them with moderate reps, about 10-15. Roasted the hell out of my middle back, while I held the middle-of-a-deadlift position.

It feels like they were custom-made as a deadlift accessory. 10/10 would recommend

 

[Jasper2K]

Tried bent over rows for the first time today. Lower back pain, so I'd switched to the Yates variation. Did it with dumbbells to get the "cambered bar" effect since a straight bar would collide with my torso; also because I can use different hand angles. Did them with moderate reps, about 10-15. Roasted the hell out of my middle back, while I held the middle-of-a-deadlift position.

It feels like they were custom-made as a deadlift accessory. 10/10 would recommend

There are so many valid ways to do the barbell row its insane. Aim for that squeeze. I love when you hit your back so hard it hurts to sneeze. Kino.

 

[Troon Meet Noose]

Found doing squats are probably the worst for my knees (I'm only in my early 30's but knees are shot already), the pain is just unbearable.

Maybe the technique is the problem? Not to powerlevel too much, but for a long time I thought that my body wasn't built for squats - flat feet, loose joints, bad back, etc but then I figured out to do them sort of properly (thank you Mr Rippetoe) and the problems I used to have, I just don't anymore. It's fucking hell to do them but they work.

 

[Vingle]

Anyone got advice on good underwear for horribly swamp ass? It doesn't get moist, it gets wet from sweat. And it's a nasty feeling to sit down.

I keep buying other types of underwear, to see if it gets any better.