We can't return to capitalism as usual after this crisis

This is my first A&H thread, so forgive me if I'm not doing things 100% correctly. I haven't seen this posted elsewhere in the UK Megathread or the Clickbait Megathread, so forgive me if this article should go in one of those instead.

Article - Archive

We Can’t Return to Capitalism as Usual After This Crisis
By Abi Wilkinson

Here are questions we need to ask right away: If foundational economic principles must be abandoned when things get tough, does capitalism really serve our needs? If rapid, radical change is possible when circumstances demand it, what excuse is there for failing to act with similar urgency to prevent cataclysmic climate change?

Over the past few weeks, the UK strategy on COVID-19 has veered dramatically from contrarian laissez-faire to hasty, panicked adoption of social control measures similar to those in other European countries. An endless stream of British journalists implored us, initially, to simply trust our government’s favored experts (and, implicitly, to ignore the suspiciously foreign advice of most other epidemiologists, including those employed by the World Health Organization).

This stance became increasingly hard to defend after it emerged that the government’s initial strategy — allowing the virus to infect the young and healthy in the hope of building “herd immunity” that would protect vulnerable groups — was, at least partly, based on faulty modeling. Specifically, scientists advising the government had used data for a different disease with a much lower hospitalization rate than had been observed in countries hit earlier by COVID-19.

Pro-government commentators quickly divided into two camps, with the first adopting a position that’s almost too absurd to engage with seriously. They claimed that nothing about the government’s approach had actually changed, the public had simply failed to understand it properly.

That footage you watched of the UK’s chief scientific adviser explaining why “herd immunity” through widespread infection was a desirable goal? Those words didn’t actually mean what you thought they did. The Newsnight segment where a Public Health England official told us to see our elderly relatives, go to the pub, and generally carry on as usual if we didn’t have symptoms, despite the evidence globally of asymptomatic transmission? It simply never happened. Who are you going to trust, your lying eyes or the 2017 winner of the Political Commentator of the Year award?

The second group attempted a more subtle defensive maneuver. Rather than informing us, Ministry of Truth–style, of the absolute infallibility of the government response, they asked us to trust the good intentions of the people in charge. Under the headline “Our politicians are only trying to do their best,” the Spectator’s Alex Massie opined that the pandemic “is a time for generosity and kindness; a moment for the cutting of slack and the making of allowances.” A sentiment that seems unobjectionable in the abstract, but rather misses the point when it comes to assessing the actions of political leaders during a crisis.

I do not care whether Boris Johnson means well. Nor am I interested in the purity of Matt Hancock’s heart. Frankly, I do not claim to be able to judge whether Rishi Sunak is trying his absolute hardest, or whether he could be going at it with a bit more welly. I imagine they all believe themselves to be good people, doing as best they can in difficult circumstances. That seems to be true of most politicians.

Indeed, it’s true of most people in most walks of life. In situations like this, where our leaders appear to have made a whole series of gravely suboptimal decisions — risking hundreds of thousands of lives in the process — asking “incompetence or malice?” obscures far more than it reveals.

A foundational myth of technocracy is the existence of a single set of desirable political goals. It imagines some unified “public good” that people in power will generally aim to maximize, even if they use different tools and strategies to do so. According to this logic, political decisions cannot be morally right or wrong, only effective or ineffective.

An estimated 130,000 preventable deaths due to austerity are simply a regrettable, unintended consequence of David Cameron and George Osborne’s attempt to do what they believed was right. The “incompetence or malice” binary posits only one, unlikely seeming, possible alternative: that killing people was a deliberate policy goal.

I have no doubt that, all things being equal, Boris Johnson would like to minimize the number of deaths from COVID-19. The pertinent question is not whether the UK government has this aim at all, but the extent to which they prioritize it over other, competing concerns.

While some have attempted to argue that a recession could result in more loss of life than the virus (relying on the dubious assumption that government cannot prevent people dying prematurely due to poverty), it’s generally been understood that there is a direct trade-off between economic growth and saving lives.

In the United States, Republicans have made the issue explicit. Texas lieutenant governor Dan Patrick went as far as to suggest that “lots of grandparents” would prefer to risk their survival than see the United States adopt public health measures that further damage the national economy. Though Donald Trump has not stated the apparent trade-off in quite such stark language, he’s repeatedly pushed for Americans to return to work just when epidemiologists expect the pandemic to hit its peak, saying that “the cure cannot be worse than the problem.”

As is often the case with Trump, this seems less a deviation from conventional elite opinion than an example of him saying the quiet part loud. Though no UK politician has dared to say similar publicly, a recent Sunday Times article said that government adviser Dominic Cummings outlined the government’s original strategy as, according to one observer’s summation: “protect the economy, and if that means some pensioners die, too bad.”

The notion that it might be justifiable to sacrifice human lives in service of “the economy” only makes sense if you conceive of economic growth having some independent, intrinsic value beyond promoting human well-being. In reality, this euphemistic language serves to obscure the truth: that the people who are sacrificed are predominately poor, and the people who benefit from a buoyant stock market are the rich.

Though viruses do not discriminate based on class, working-class people are significantly more likely to have jobs that cannot be done remotely. The individuals who are urging that we “carry on as normal” likely have far more ability to take measures to protect themselves and their families.

In the case of the UK, it seems likely that ideological priors also influenced decision-making in more subtle ways. Anyone paying attention knows that the NHS consistently operates at close to full capacity, to the extent that even regular seasonal flu can send hospitals into crisis. This state of affairs is the result of a decade of underfunding by the Conservatives, rationalized as the pursuit of “efficiency.”

You don’t need to be an epidemiologist, or even to have studied the numbers closely, to wonder why the government ever believed it could deal with the sharp spike in demand expected under a minimalist strategy. Bad modeling notwithstanding, there was ample evidence from other countries that hospitals were struggling to cope.

I can only assume that those in government who backed the “herd immunity” strategy desperately wanted to believe an easy, non-economically disruptive option was available. The alternative — that a significant increase in government spending was going to be necessary, and that systematically cutting public services to the bone has disastrous consequences — presents a significant challenge to the Conservative worldview.

All of us tend to be less skeptical of ideas that align with our existing beliefs about how the world works, and how things should be done. It’s unsurprising, then, that many jumped at the prospect of a laissez-faire solution. The idea that other countries (and the World Health Organization) had gotten it wrong, and that more interventionist approaches would ultimately be futile, must have been highly seductive. One anonymous senior figure even briefed journalists that measures taken in Italy were “populist, non-science-based measures that aren’t any use.” In reality, going into lockdown seems to have significantly slowed the rate of infection.

Eventually, the current crisis will pass, but it will be a huge mistake if we attempt to return to “normal.” The issues we’ve been forced to confront have lasting implications. Namely, if foundational economic principles must be abandoned when things get tough, does this system really serve our needs? If rapid, radical change is possible when circumstances demand it, what excuse is there for failing to act with similar urgency to prevent cataclysmic climate change? What can and should we do differently, now that we know doing things differently is possible?

TL;DR: Lol, if we can just abandon capitalism when it's convenient during a crisis... why don't we just abandon capitalism altogether? Pleeeease? Do it for climate change!
 
Robots can build other robots. That's why we need UBI.

Well, yes, but there has to be humans in the equation to begin the process. Didn't you see Matrix Revolutions (just kidding)

But robots are made from manufactured parts...that are made by humans at the foundational level and those people have a specific set of training and skills that takes years sometimes to train.

It's all apart of business, having a percentage of work force that can maintain manufacturing operations and even maintain AI robots on assembly line factories.
 
Well, yes, but there has to be humans in the equation to begin the process. Didn't you see Matrix Revolutions (just kidding)

But robots are made from manufactured parts...that are made by humans at the foundational level and those people have a specific set of training and skills that takes years sometimes to train.

It's all apart of business, having a percentage of work force that can maintain manufacturing operations and even maintain AI robots on assembly line factories.
The abominable intelligences WILL eventually consider humans to be surplus. Doesn't mean they'll kill us all, though.
 
I mean, whoever wrote this does have a point, you know.
With the way how production goes down due to imports being delayed and some shops even running out of certain items at times, it is far more easy to slip into the wasteland of a communist economy devoid of, y'know, an actual economy.

It's economic laziness. Why think when you have the government doing it for you?

The abominable intelligences WILL eventually consider humans to be surplus. Doesn't mean they'll kill us all, though.

Or worse, an economic commodity.

Remember in the matrix, the "woke" people were the ones who was discarded and thrown away. Imperfect batteries that didn't put out anymore.

;)
 
If this pandemic actually shifts us from planned obsolescence and consooming back to producing and buying quality goods - great. Same if it stops the migration trend towards cities - they've outlived their usefulness.
 
While I disagree with the author's politics (heavily) I think there is something to be said for how much society is going to change after this pandemic. We may need more socialist economic measures to try and keep things stable because I can guarentee you that people will remain paranoid, depressed and probably have emptied their wallets by the time this is all over no matter what kind of stimulus package is introduced. Supply chains have already been disrupted, workers in infrastructure and especially stuff like retail are going to want to keep their pay raises, and a pandemic isn't truly over until years after it starts because pockets of infection will always cling to the cracks in the pavement. Viruses can lie dormant for years, some for decades.

Its definitely not going to go back to the way things used to be.
 
Trotskyites love striking with their bullshit propaganda in times of manufactured crisis. Can never get their ideas approved by the masses normally.
 
While I disagree with the author's politics (heavily) I think there is something to be said for how much society is going to change after this pandemic. We may need more socialist economic measures to try and keep things stable because I can guarentee you that people will remain paranoid, depressed and probably have emptied their wallets by the time this is all over no matter what kind of stimulus package is introduced. Supply chains have already been disrupted, workers in infrastructure and especially stuff like retail are going to want to keep their pay raises, and a pandemic isn't truly over until years after it starts because pockets of infection will always cling to the cracks in the pavement. Viruses can lie dormant for years, some for decades.

Its definitely not going to go back to the way things used to be.

I think you fail to recognize global optimism that occurred after the World Wars. Once a successful treatment and vaccine is created, there will be a boom. A new baby boom, and a new global initiative to not just go about ones own life and business but to mitigate this occurrence so that it never happens again.
China may lose trade and factories and they may see an economic decline because they created this problem. If they are just going to, as a region whether naturally or bio engineering, create pandemic bugs, then corporations an d.c. governments can't trust them to maintain supply chain and manufacturing.
I'm sorry, but that's what's going to happen.
 
I think you fail to recognize global optimism that occurred after the World Wars.

Mostly in the countries that weren't reduced to flat ruins or under occupation and strict rationing. Some didn't recover until the 1960s, and there are a few that underwent harsh civil wars such as Vietnam and Korea. North Korea one could argue hasn't recovered at all, though that might be more due to the intensive bombing campaign in The Korean War. For Europe the recovery efforts from WW2 were long and tedious. The countries behind the Iron Curtain were essentially enslaved to the Soviet Union and plundered for any useful resources since the USSR itself had been absolutely gored and shredded by the war. I would absolutely not call the sense of optimism the USA experienced after WW2 "global".

And there was no optimism after WW1. Everyone knew the next war was coming, everyone suiffered under the effects of the Great Depression, an absolutely horrifying drug epidemic, wild inflation, a world pandemic in the form of the Spanish Flu, and in the midst of all of this Germany began to blatantly rearm itself and then started annexing neighboring territories. Art and literature from the era is extremely melancholy and depressed, its written across every painting and poem, especially those created by soldiers returning from the battlefield.
 
Mostly in the countries that weren't reduced to flat ruins or under occupation and strict rationing. Some didn't recover until the 1960s, and there are a few that underwent harsh civil wars such as Vietnam and Korea. North Korea one could argue hasn't recovered at all, though that might be more due to the intensive bombing campaign in The Korean War. For Europe the recovery efforts from WW2 were long and tedious. The countries behind the Iron Curtain were essentially enslaved to the Soviet Union and plundered for any useful resources since the USSR itself had been absolutely gored and shredded by the war. I would absolutely not call the sense of optimism the USA experienced after WW2 "global".

And there was no optimism after WW1. Everyone knew the next war was coming, everyone suiffered under the effects of the Great Depression, an absolutely horrifying drug epidemic, wild inflation, a world pandemic in the form of the Spanish Flu, and in the midst of all of this Germany began to blatantly rearm itself and then started annexing neighboring territories. Art and literature from the era is extremely melancholy and depressed, its written across every painting and poem, especially those created by soldiers returning from the battlefield.


There was the roaring twenties, the depression came after that due to 'too big to fail" and the baby boom after WW2,

One could say communism is the antithesis of successful capitalism cause during the great depression German nazis and Russian communists tried to manipulate American trade. The Great Depression labor force did get seduced to Communism and tried to organize. Corporations dropped laborers because of this. The cold war came into being cause Communism chipped away at American trade.. That's what happened
 
We can absolutely return to capitalism as usual after this crisis, what we will not, and should not, return to is homoglobal outsourced capitalism that includes the vast majority of what these communist actually hate. Shouldn't they be happy at Capitialism being forced to correct itself?
 
We can absolutely return to capitalism as usual after this crisis, what we will not, and should not, return to is homoglobal outsourced capitalism that includes the vast majority of what these communist actually hate. Shouldn't they be happy at Capitialism being forced to correct itself?

I get the feeling then they will never be happy with that.
 
Yes, because you are assuming that you'll be alive to watch them get dragged off to be executed or worked to death, as opposed to having been dragged off before them.
most real commies are pretty pragmatic. they will not start killing you as long as there is nobody ready to replace you at your workplace-
 
Reminder this only got so bad because the Communist Party of China lied and weren't truthful, didn't want to let any information out they didn't control.

And they keep saying "but, but,that wasn't real communism".

Looks like SJWs might dislike that article.

 
most real commies are pretty pragmatic. they will not start killing you as long as there is nobody ready to replace you at your workplace-
if they were pragmatic they wouldn't be communist, or execute a good chunk of my country like paranoid assholes who sees the shadow of White Russians everywhere.
 
Diversification of supply chains and manufacturing is the answer rather than massive globalized slave labor. That would be a good thing because that will stimulate the economy via more domestic manufacturing, creating more demand for skilled blue collar jobs, which will revitalize small town economies.

For all those reasons above, that is why it will never happen. The left will keep throwing fits and shitting their nappies to keep it from happening. They’re going to try to double down on globalism and make sure people forget how it happened in the first place.
 
China can't return to communism as usual after Corona-chan, they need to embrace capitalism and surrender Nanking to the Japanese.
 
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