US US Politics General 2: Hope Edition - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/

 

[Rimanah]

They broke precedent and procedure to issue an ultimate decree allowing the Roman state to ignore all laws to neuter Caesar as a political and military leader, because the Senate deemed him a threat to the republic

To be fair to the senate, any “precedent” of the Republic was long thrown out by the Social Wars, Sulla’s civil war, and Sulla’s subsequent dictatorship. Hell, arguably even the how the senate dealt with the Gracchi too. The Roman Republic had been on a long, drawn out death spiral well before Caesar.

As an aside, this long drawn out process is why comparisons between current America and the end Republic are misplaced. Trump is not the American Caesar, he is if anything the American Gracchi. But even that’s a bit tenuous given how vastly different America and Rome are culturally, politically, militarily, and historically.

 

[YellowIsACoolColor]

Take the 'wealth inequality' issue that seems to be the number 1 issue for these people.

They'll drone on about it being a 'growing problem,' and I suppose if you're so myopically focused on a single wealthy nation, you might see the gap widening. But that's a provincial, navel-gazing perspective.

The undeniable truth is, on a global scale, income inequality is in a rapid state of decline. This is due to the enormous economic ascensions of places like China and India, which have single-handedly yanked hundreds of millions of people from the depths of extreme poverty. The world is unequivocally improving, but they, in their insulated little bubble, are simply too shortsighted to comprehend it.

I care about the economic and social state of my own country and not some backwater nation on the other side of the planet.

part of the wealth gap meme is that it's a self reinforcing outcome of their own policies

>be rich country
>inport millions of povertyniggers from the poorest shitholes on the planet
>waow why are there more and more poor people in our society every year?!? this rising wealth inequality is unacceptable!
>must be a sign of late stage capitalism, just as marx predicted! time for some wealth redistribution!

The largest transfer of wealth to the top 1% happened in 2020 when Trump was president, so in the States it has less to do with migration and more to do with the activities the Uniparty and their donors.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

As an aside, this long drawn out process is why comparisons between current America and the end Republic are misplaced. Trump is not the American Caesar, he is if anything the American Gracchi. But even that’s a bit tenuous given how vastly different America and Rome are culturally, politically, militarily, and historically.

The comparisons always pissed me off. It's why I did a 180 on Mike Duncan (of The History of Rome podcast). I went to see him speak about his first book and he spent half the time ranting about how Trump is the end of America, using the Roman republic as an analogue. I literally walked out and never consumed his content again. Comparing America to the Roman republic is only second in retarded political takes to comparing anything to the Nazis.

 

[An Idle Observer]

Yes, there are flaws with the study in terms of generalizing it to the American political community. But as a meme, it manifests what everybody has seen with their own eyes—liberals care more about people and things that have no immediate relation to them than they care about the wellbeing of their family and country.

I mean this nicely, honest psychologists start pulling their hair out at this. It's the exact kind of "close enough," that's very much not what they're trying to say. It's not the American political community that's the issue, it's that someone identifying with issues is just not able to be reflected in the heat map at all. "Mine own eyes," here are telling you that, but it's not that straightforward is the issue. Yeah, it answers the question, but if I ask 2+2=?, "42" is still an answer. I find it extremely important to get motivations correct, lest we turn into the left being incapable of mapping our opposition and looking peak stupid over and over again.

From what I could gather from the revisions and clarifications, the left's problem isn't a direct identification with the other, it's with an extreme identification with their personal issues that they treat as close. It's not that they identify with Johnny Jihadi, they genuinely don't, but thanks to the propaganda milling, they have it in their heads that all migrants are temporarily embarrassed good citizens. So they identify with Johnny Just-A-Migrant they have in their heads because that's what they're told in their ideology and don't see Johnny Jihadi looking to build a murder mosque in Not-My-Backyard, Not-My-State. So when people on the other side go after immigration, they identify very heavily with their ideology, but DON'T identify with the actual people in their cluelessness.

I like analyzing stupidity like I like analyzing my sodas. There's a lot more than one flavor of cola out there and it helps if we can be specific about every detail, and this is something I do agree warrants going mucho autismo, so I am being self-admittedly pedantic.

Also RC is best mainstream cola. Fite me.

Yes you would. Apicius didn't explain amounts, ever. He'd explain recipes like some asshole in a GameFAQs walkthrough where you can't figure out a puzzle and the guy just says "yeah solve the riddle and move on to the next boss."

No, because then we can give Max Miller over at Tasting History a forever back catalog and we can vaguely hope he'll make flamingo tongue.

Man managed to re-make Garum, I would not put it past him to find some way... SOMEHOW... to make a reasonable facsimile of Rome's crazier dishes.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

People seem to forget or maybe weren't around to remember the insanity around GWB, or even Reagan. There were no shortage of lunatics claiming Hitler then, too. They were both also fascists who were going to destroy America for their corporate/(m)billionaire overlords and install a Christian Theocracy. Arguably, in Reagan's case, they were at least half right.

To be fair, people online said Obama was going to turn into a communist dictator and he didn't.

People say hyperbolic shit in politics all the time. I think what made Trump so unique in this regard is he was the first real outsider to get into high office and that was intolerable to existing politicians and bureaucrats. COVID also changed how people engage with "news" media. Tons of people who would have lost steam and moved on became glued to it and now seem to rely on it for some weird ego/fandom reason. I think a lot of people feel like the "bad guy" keeps winning in terms of a narrative and that makes them angry. These people do not realize that politics is not a movie and sometimes you don't get what you want. I was not happy when Biden became president in 2020, but I accepted it because sometimes things don't go your way.

 

[cockaine]

Yes you would. Apicius didn't explain amounts, ever. He'd explain recipes like some asshole in a GameFAQs walkthrough where you can't figure out a puzzle and the guy just says "yeah solve the puzzle and move on to the next room."

This isn't a big problem if you kind of know what you're doing tbh

 

[Levitcus prime24]

It doesn't matter what the normies think. The progressives who control the DNC (for the moment at least) don't give a single shit about what they think or do. To them the normies will fall in line the second they've beaten Trump...finally. Once the MAGA brainwashing is stopped people will just "naturally" fall back in the Democratic camp like the good little drones they are. After all the Left is on the right side of history and losing is just something that happens when the bad guy cheats...well cheats better then they do I guess.

This is a holy crusade they're on, Trump is the very face of evil to him so whatever they do, what they say, whomever gets harmed in the path is just gravy to them. Remember progressive hate anyone who doesn't think 100% like they do.

Winning elections is the furthest thing from their mind. They need to stop Trump, the HAVE to stop Trump that's all that matters to them now. They are solely the anti-Trump party, the offer nor want to offer anything else.

In their minds stopping Trump will bring them victory. What the victory entails is kinda...fuzzy as they can't really agree what the end game is but they all agree Trump is the person standing in the way of the great Progressive Utopia to come. Whatever that is.

I truly question what these types of people will do once Trump is gone. They've based their whole world view, their whole moral system and their very personalities on being anti-Trump.

What happens to the hero when there is no bad guy to fight?

Without trump being a socialist isn’t with it,

 

[harmy.kook]

For a lot of people, it's just performative. Once Trump is gone, they will move onto the next thing to raise their blood pressure and give them the same sense of moral condescension.

Exactly.

We already saw the (now temporary) version of this after 2021.
It's why people woke up to different parts of the Narrative.

Also why the in-fighting of the Left worsened around the same time.

 

[Rykel22]

As an aside, this long drawn out process is why comparisons between current America and the end Republic are misplaced. Trump is not the American Caesar, he is if anything the American Gracchi. But even that’s a bit tenuous given how vastly different America and Rome are culturally, politically, militarily, and historically.

Yeah. There are many different pressures at work, but it would be unwise to ignore the broad strokes.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

As it should be. Great chefs don't measure unless dealing with ferments or salt curing, maybe baking but even that becomes a matter of 'feel' once you reach a certain level of proficiency.

It matters a lot because a lot of older dishes deal with ingredients and spices that are no longer common and, because the recipes are 2,000 years old, no one has the cultural knowledge of how much to add.

No, because then we can give Max Miller over at Tasting History a forever back catalog and we can vaguely hope he'll make flamingo tongue.

Man managed to re-make Garum, I would not put it past him to find some way... SOMEHOW... to make a reasonable facsimile of Rome's crazier dishes.

Max Miller rules. His video on making true garum is probably the most amazing food video ever made and he deserves more serious historical accolades for doing it. I wish he had the money and facilities to give a safe recipe for making it. In his video he literally tells you not to try making it because the chance of fucking up and poisoning yourself is fairly high. Also, it fucking stinks to high heaven and there's no way to manufacture it in the traditional way without literally making the whole neighborhood smell like dead fish.

 

[Breadbassket]

To be fair to the senate, any “precedent” of the Republic was long thrown out by the Social Wars, Sulla’s civil war, and Sulla’s subsequent dictatorship. Hell, arguably even the how the senate dealt with the Gracchi too. The Roman Republic had been on a long, drawn out death spiral well before Caesar.

As an aside, this long drawn out process is why comparisons between current America and the end Republic are misplaced. Trump is not the American Caesar, he is if anything the American Gracchi. But even that’s a bit tenuous given how vastly different America and Rome are culturally, politically, militarily, and historically.

To add to this, everyone talks about Caesar being romanticized but they need to be aware that Sulla was part of the Optimates faction (the side of the Senate) while Caesar was part of the Populares (reliant on popular support often through appeals to the lower classes and urban masses in order to challenge senatorial influence). Pompey, who was Julius's rival first came to prominence during Sulla's war.

This is where we get this lovely quote:


The aforementioned Sulla attempted to create a new constitutional order. He launched a successful coup against the government. He purged his opponents. He was the one who revived the title of dictator. He wanted to restore the primacy of the Senate and limit the power of the tribune of the plebs. All of this was in living memory to since it only happened approximately 30-40 years before Caesar was in power.

You can say Caesar has been overly romanticized and to an extent he has because he was his own publicist in a lot of ways and unintentionally paved the way for Augustus and the Roman Empire that came after his death but at the same time it's pretty clear the Roman Republic institutionally was in decline, the status quo was untenable and that Caesar didn't exactly exist in a vacuum. It was either going to be the Senate or the ambitious man who would become Dictator perpetuo.

 

[The best and greatest]

It matters a lot because a lot of older dishes deal with ingredients and spices that are no longer common and, because the recipes are 2,000 years old, no one has the cultural knowledge of how much to add.

Any good chef will tailor recipes to their tastes or the tastes of their client. They didn't give amounts because it was understood implicitly in those times that the final makeup of the ingredients are up to you. You didn't follow a recipe like it was scripture or printed on the back of a cardboard box.

 

[An Idle Observer]

Max Miller rules. His video on making true garum is probably the most amazing food video ever made and he deserves more serious historical accolades for doing it. I wish he had the money and facilities to give a safe recipe for making it. In his video he literally tells you not to try making it because the chance of fucking up and poisoning yourself is fairly high. Also, it fucking stinks to high heaven and there's no way to manufacture it in the traditional way without literally making the whole neighborhood smell like dead fish.

I'll give him credit for the SPAM episode. Ribbon Loaf has given me a few ideas between trying to make a non-beef mulligan stew (Family member can't process beef proteins anymore so subbing shredded SPAM in favor of the tinned corned beef seems plausible.) and ideas for doing new takes on sandwich spreads thanks to the binder used in between the SPAM slices being a cream-cheese and onion one.

 

[CaliforniaRaisin]

To be fair, people online said Obama was going to turn into a communist dictator and he didn't.

That's fair. There were also no shortage of unhinged people who loathed Clinton and Obama too. And the same change applies here too. What changed between Obama and Biden was 4 years of massive social media growth and organization, resulting in a very concentrated thrust against the Biden administration.

 

[Rimanah]

The comparisons always pissed me off. It's why I did a 180 on Mike Duncan (of The History of Rome podcast). I went to see him speak about his first book and he spent half the time ranting about how Trump is the end of America, using the Roman republic as an analogue. I literally walked out and never consumed his content again. Comparing America to the Roman republic is only second in retarded political takes to comparing anything to the Nazis.

I think the problem is that they are superficially similar if you squint a lot, and most people simply don’t realize how different they are.
Just off the top of my head, the fall of the Republic really can’t be disentangled from the massive population loss Rome suffered during the Punic wars (iirc it was like 1 out of 7 fighting age men) and how that contributed to the decline of the “Soldier Farmer,” in turn leading to the issues that would help propel the Gracchi to power. America has never suffered something equivalent. Closest you have is arguably the Civil War. But the average person simply isn’t going to know that. At best they may remember hearing about Carthage in high school world history.

Very embarrassing for someone like Mike Duncan to be making those comparisons though. If your entire job is Roman history you should damn well know the collapse of the Republic is arguably one of the most complex declines in Western history alongside the “Fall” of the Western Roman Empire.

 

[Sekirodiealot]

Which political system obliterates hasan? Thats the ticket, laddie.

He wouldn’t last a day in any of them

 

[Breadbassket]

Some reporting from CNN of all places:
"The Democratic brand right now has about the appeal with the American voter as the Cracker Barrel rebrand has with the American consumers. Bad bad bad... Republicans looking pretty darn good!

2:49

 

[JosephStalin]

Just saw this. Sure like it.

 

[Café con leche]

The largest transfer of wealth to the top 1% happened in 2020 when Trump was president, so in the States it has less to do with migration and more to do with the activities the Uniparty and their donors.

We often talk about it like it's a zero-sum game, where for someone to get rich, they have to take from others. But wealth is created. When a company invents something new that benefits millions, it generates new value, and the founders get a big piece of that. They didn't take that money from anyone—they earned it by making something valuable that didn't exist before. It's the natural result of a dynamic, growing economy.

 

[autistic dog]

People seem to forget or maybe weren't around to remember the insanity around GWB, or even Reagan. There were no shortage of lunatics claiming Hitler then, too. They were both also fascists who were going to destroy America for their corporate/(m)billionaire overlords and install a Christian Theocracy. Arguably, in Reagan's case, they were at least half right.

Green day changed the lyrics of American Idiot a song they wrote about Bush to apply it to Trump without a hint of irony.