Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

New theory: Susie totally saw the Weird Route in that prophecy window, didn't she?

She freaks out, saying that Kris/Ralsei would never do that, then Chapter 5 is setting up a massive simultaneous Kris/Noelle crashout when she realizes that Susie's been playing in the school storage room while her dad's dying. That's how the routes merge.
 
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is it just me or flower king shadow crystal dialogue does not appear on the normal route? i only saw it on aborted ch5 weird route. never got to trigger it normally, mayhaps you need to not give the shadow crystal from ch4 to seam?
 
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It's all in Engrish.

イッツ ア マンズ ワールド!
Ittsu a manzu waarudo!

ウェルカム トゥ マンカントリー
Werukamu tu mankantorii.

ノン・マン イズ ウェルカム トゥー
Non-man izu werukamu tuu.
Now that is...unusual. Tell me if you don't mind, how do these lines appear?

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It just occurred to me that the black deer in chapter 3 being either a black goat or a black deer depending on the Toriel variable, implies that (most likely) the knight is either Dess, or Asriel, or maybe both.

People are talking about how the knight is secretly kris and noelle fused together from the wierd route (for some fucking reason), but I wonder if it might in fact be Asriel and Dess, who amalgam'd from going out of bounds or something.

Or it could mean absofuckinglutely nothing and the knights just a titan that obtained some level of sentience. Maybe someone stabbed a thing with a knife and it became a sentient dark fountain.
 
Ngl I find a controller to be the best way for me to play DR. K&M gives me mad carpel tunnel and I'm a lot more precise with an analog anyway.
Nothing has been more comfortable for me than playing on Steam Deck, and I don't even find KB+M particularly uncomfortable. Button mash dodging just doesn't make sense on a keyboard.

Unfortunately the eck is now worth 1 million dollars, so the Steam Controller is a good second best, I'd gather.
Of course Susie wouldn't be mad over that. She'd probably celebrate, the twit.
You don't understand, Susie was so mindbroken by it she did everything she could to ensure Kris got cucked out of every relationship in Ch 5 outside the weird route. All of her OOC behavior fits this being the prophecy, trust.
 
I more so meant "does it appear anywhere else?" Like any of the gaster followers or entry number shit for instance
Not that I remember. It double-checked the Gaster followers for anything notable since you mentioned them, but the only thing of note is that the fun event where someone calls you and you get the wrong number song has the person on the other end say "Hello! Can I speak to G..." in English before switching to Japanese when they realize it's a wrong number. It's literally in English though, not katakana, so it's not the same as the signs in Mancountry.
クリス なんだか デカくなったなぁ…
からだ きたえたのかい?
いわゆる「せいちょうした」ってヤツだろうな。
それ やめてもらえるか?

There's nothing particularly unusual about the Japanese translations of those lines, except maybe that in the "I guess you grew up" line is worded more like "I guess it's that thing called 'growing up'."
Though all the copied Rudinns in Mancountry speak in just kana, with no kanji. In the Japanese version of Deltarune, kanji is used in text while in the Dark World, but dialogue in the Light World almost all kana, which was the case in Undertale. I think Undertale was like that because the Mother games would avoid using kanji outside some in-universe writing because Itoi had this thing with wanting dialogue to match of feeling of how you don't get kanji info from someone's speech in real life. I think Mancountry does it because it's meant to look like an 8-bit RPG, and NES and GameBoy games would lack kanji due to font space reasons.
 
Nothing has been more comfortable for me than playing on Steam Deck, and I don't even find KB+M particularly uncomfortable.
Turns out Toby is such a weeb, the game speed is tied to the framerate. A sin many Japanese games guilty of.
It's hard coded to not go beyond 30fps, but if you use deck's performance settings to force the game to run at lower rate, everything slows down.
I found this trick accidentally during the end of chapter 3 and cheesed the knight by playing at 15fps, which was the same as playing at half speed.
 
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=ku7PGZL3bIE has anyone seen this niggerbabble video? Is it any good or just inarticulate leftist essay slop?
I told ChatGPT and Gemini to summarize the transcript and ended up with this. I haven't played Deltarune yet so I can't speak on its accuracy but it reads like occultslop, albeit well-researched and formulated.
The essay argues that Deltarune is not merely a fantasy RPG with symbolic elements, but a work built around a coherent metaphysical system derived primarily from ancient creation myths, Gnosticism, literary theory, and metafiction. Its central claim is that the game's mysteries become much clearer when interpreted through these broader philosophical and religious traditions rather than through game lore alone.

Its major ideas can be summarized as follows:

1. Darkness is the primordial substance of creation​

The author begins by surveying ancient Near Eastern, Greek, Biblical, Egyptian, Indian, and other creation myths. Across many cultures, creation begins with:
  • an infinite dark ocean,
  • primordial chaos,
  • undifferentiated potential,
  • water existing before creation itself.
The essay argues that Deltarune deliberately adopts this same cosmological model.

In this framework:
  • Darkness is equivalent to the primordial ocean.
  • Water imagery throughout the game is not decorative—it represents pre-creation reality.
  • Dark Fountains are breaches into this underlying primordial substance.
  • The Roaring is equivalent to mythological flood narratives: creation collapsing back into primordial chaos.

2. The "Depths" are reality beneath reality​

The essay proposes that the mysterious "Depths" referenced throughout the game are not literal underground oceans.

Instead they are:
  • the metaphysical layer beneath ordinary existence,
  • the source from which Dark Worlds emerge,
  • the game's equivalent of the Biblical Tehom ("the Deep").
Dark Fountains puncture ordinary reality and allow this creative Darkness to erupt into the world.

Dark Worlds are therefore literally made from the raw material of creation itself.


3. Darkness represents possibility while Light represents fixed reality​

One of the essay's central philosophical claims is that:

Darkness =
  • imagination
  • uncertainty
  • creativity
  • potential
  • chaos
Light =
  • certainty
  • observation
  • order
  • fixed existence
The game therefore uses Darkness as something much richer than simply "evil."

Darkness allows imagined things to become temporarily real.

Dark Worlds are therefore intermediate spaces between imagination and reality.


4. Dark Worlds are structured forms of play​

Drawing heavily on Johan Huizinga's concept of the magic circle, the essay argues that Dark Worlds function like:
  • playgrounds,
  • rituals,
  • games,
  • fictional worlds.
The earliest Dark Worlds resemble childhood pretend games that animate ordinary objects.

However, the author notes an important anomaly:

Dark Worlds are not completely free.

Instead they all obey one overarching ruleset:
  • levels
  • stats
  • parties
  • recruitment
  • RPG mechanics
This suggests that every Dark World exists inside one larger game:

DELTARUNE itself.


5. Gaster is effectively the creator-god of Deltarune​

The essay argues that Gaster occupies a role analogous to an author or demiurge.

Evidence cited includes:
  • the SURVEY_PROGRAM introduction,
  • hidden game files,
  • menus,
  • save systems,
  • Gaster's announcements,
  • his repeated observation of the player.
Rather than existing entirely inside the story, Gaster exists partly outside it—closer to the player's own perspective.

The player and Gaster therefore occupy similar metaphysical positions:

both stand above the fictional world while interacting with it.


6. Deltarune is fundamentally about predestination​

Secret bosses such as:
  • Jevil
  • Spamton
are interpreted as characters who have discovered the true nature of reality.

Their madness comes from realizing:
  • they live inside a game,
  • their roles are predetermined,
  • genuine freedom may not exist.
Chapter 4 expands this idea by presenting the prophecy as literally dictating reality.

The world's religion venerates this prophecy because it governs existence itself.


7. Gnosticism provides the deepest interpretive framework​

The essay spends a large section explaining Gnostic cosmology.

Key concepts include:
  • the Monad (ultimate unknowable God),
  • Sophia (Wisdom),
  • the Fall,
  • the Demiurge,
  • the false material world,
  • hidden knowledge (gnosis),
  • liberation from illusion.
The author argues these ideas strongly parallel Deltarune.


8. Gaster parallels Sophia and the Demiurge​

According to the essay:

Like Sophia,
  • Gaster pursued forbidden knowledge,
  • suffered a catastrophic fall,
  • shattered into fragments,
  • transcended ordinary existence.
Like the Demiurge,
  • he constructs an imperfect world,
  • rules over it,
  • invites others into it,
  • imitates an older creation (Undertale).
Unlike traditional Gnostic myths, however, Gaster combines aspects of both Sophia and the Demiurge into a single figure.

The essay even suggests that his association with glitches resembles the Gnostic concept of "Error."


9. Gaster is also a stand-in for Toby Fox​

The author argues that Gaster should not only be understood as an in-universe character.

He also represents:
  • the game designer,
  • the artist,
  • the author.
The relationship between:

Gaster → Player

mirrors

Author → Reader.

Creating art is portrayed as simultaneously:
  • beautiful,
  • painful,
  • controlling,
  • creative.
The essay interprets Gaster's desire for "CONNECTION" as mirroring an artist's desire to share a work with an audience.


10. Deltarune is about the relationship between fiction and reality​

Drawing on Russian Formalism and Viktor Shklovsky's theory of "defamiliarization," the essay argues that Dark Worlds represent art itself.

Just as fiction transforms ordinary reality into something strange and meaningful:
  • Dark Worlds transform everyday objects into living worlds.
Crossing into a Dark World is analogous to entering a novel, stage play, or game.

The player knowingly participates in this illusion.


11. Game code itself has a metaphysical role​

One of the essay's more unusual claims is that:
  • menus,
  • save files,
  • hidden rooms,
  • unused content,
  • internal game code
are not merely development artifacts.

Instead they exist diegetically as part of the game's metaphysics.

The essay proposes that the game's source code corresponds to the primordial Darkness or "Depths" beneath reality itself.

Characters associated with Gaster occupy this liminal layer between fiction and implementation.

Overall thesis​

The essay presents Deltarune as a work about creation itself. Its world is built on ancient cosmological ideas in which a primordial darkness gives rise to reality, while also drawing heavily on Gnostic theology, literary theory, and metafiction. Dark Worlds are interpreted as spaces of imaginative creation; Gaster as both creator-god and author; the player as an external divine participant; and the game's prophecy as a metaphor for authored narrative. Ultimately, the essay argues that Deltarune explores the tension between determinism and freedom, author and audience, imagination and reality, asking whether fictional beings—or perhaps people more generally—can transcend the structures that define their existence.
The text "The Mythology and Metaphysics of Deltarune" provides a comprehensive analysis of the game's underlying themes, drawing parallels to ancient mythology, Gnosticism, philosophy, and literary theory.

1. Cradle Cosmology and "The Depths"​

  • Ancient Creation Myths: The text explains that many ancient cosmologies (Babylonian, Sumerian, Egyptian, Biblical) depict the earth as an "air bubble" surrounded by a dark, chaotic primordial ocean.
  • Application to Deltarune: The author proposes that Deltarune utilizes this exact framework. The game's recurring water imagery points to an oceanic nether-layer below reality called "the Depths" (analogous to the Biblical Tehom).
  • Dark Fountains and the Roaring: Dark Fountains are created when characters pierce the fabric of reality, allowing this primal, creative dark substance to burst forth and shape new worlds. However, creating too many fountains threatens to flood the world entirely, triggering "The Roaring," which serves as an analogue to the mythological apocalyptic flood narrative.

2. The Metaphysics of Light and Dark​

  • Dual Nature of Darkness: Darkness in Deltarune is both the literal absence of light and a metaphysical substance ("darker than dark") that solidifies imagination into concrete form. Chapter 4's "deep dark" is an even purer form of this void, acting as the birthplace of Titans, which represent primal, collective unconscious fears.
  • Light vs. Dark: Light represents order, certainty, and fixity, whereas Dark represents chaos and pure potentiality.
  • The Magic Circle: Dark Worlds function as a literalization of cultural theorist Johan Huizinga’s "magic circle"—temporary, shared playgrounds with their own isolated rules. However, these worlds are artificially restricted by rigid JRPG game systems (stats, levels, save points), locking them into the specific game session of DELTARUNE.

3. W.D. Gaster as the Gnostic Demiurge​

  • Gnostic Parallels: The text heavily connects Deltarune to Gnosticism, a belief system asserting that material reality is a flawed cosmic prison built by a lesser, arrogant creator deity called the demiurge (Yaldabaoth).
  • Gaster's Role: W.D. Gaster mirrors the Gnostic figure Sophia (whose hubristic pursuit of wisdom shattered her and triggered a fall) and the demiurge. Shattered across time and space, Gaster exists outside the game's reality. Lonely in his omniscient divinity, he created the DELTARUNE program to establish a "connection" with a higher power: the player.
  • The Protagonist as Savior: The player inhabits a vessel whose name alludes to Jesus Christ ("Krismas"). In Gnosticism, a Savior is sent to liberate souls from the demiurge's prison; however, in Deltarune, our presence as the player only serves to expose the artificiality and falseness of the characters' world.
  • Toby Fox's Precursors: The essay notes that Toby Fox explored these exact themes in his 2007 fanfiction Ness's Halloween Bashareeno, where a character goes mad upon realizing he is a puppet trapped in a predetermined simulation created by his own mind.

4. The Illusion of Freedom and Chapter Themes​

  • Existential Fatalism: The narrative of Deltarune establishes a world where "choices don't matter". Secret bosses like Jevil and Spamton are driven insane by the esoteric knowledge that their reality is merely an artificial game with fixed, unchangeable roles.
  • Breaking the Boundaries: Chapter 3 uses binary code and parallels to Link's Awakening (a game set entirely in a god's dream) to show the boundaries between fiction and reality unraveling.
  • Author vs. Reader: Chapter 4 introduces a church prophecy that dictates the exact destiny of the characters. This rigid framework is countered by the character Gerson, who advocates for reader-response theory ("The Death of the Author"). Gerson celebrates the audience's right to interpret and alter a text, positioning him directly opposite Gaster, who attempts to maintain absolute control over the narrative.

5. Formalism and Post-Structuralism​

  • Russian Formalism: The author uses Viktor Shklovsky’s formalist theory to describe Deltarune as a "device" or machine that defamiliarizes ordinary life. It turns the raw material of game development—such as code, menus, and cut content ("Nowhere")—into diegetic elements of "the Depths".
  • Foucault's Regime of Truth: Drawing from Michel Foucault, the text argues that Light in Deltarune does not equal objective truth. Instead, Light is a tool of power and constraint used to enforce certainty. Gaster paradoxically uses both Light and Dark motifs (glowing text, save stars, and angelic wings of light on Titans) to maintain his control.
  • An Ongoing Metatextual Event: Ultimately, the text concludes that Deltarune is not just an executable program but an interactive, real-world event. The audience's multi-year obsession and endless speculation actively feed Gaster's narrative power, building toward a inevitable, unmediated final confrontation between the author persona and the player.
 
Is it any good or just inarticulate leftist essay slop?
Another video that thinks it's deep because it likens Gaster to the Demiurge. The parallel doesn't work because Gaster doesn't have omniscient control over the world of Deltarune, in fact, the whole reason he summoned us was to change it. Why else would he encourage us to keep fighting the Roaring Knight despite our defeat being inevitable if this wasn't the case? This is the literal meaning of "Deltarune"; the symbol of change. Gaster is using us as a force that exists outside the game because it is the only way to change fate. When he refers to "MY DELTARUNE" this is what he is talking about.

I like Deltarune but I think any esoteric parallels are purely coincidental. Toby Fox writes at a high school level at the best of times so the most you could realistically apply are straightforward Abrahamic allegories since he was raised Christian.
 
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