Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Dorothy]

I've followed Tear theory for a while. Lightners crying over broken dreams
Jevil's was likely Kris's tears, since you don't get a shadow crystal during the fight and instead the next day Seam says Kris has it
Spamton's was Hapstablook/Mettaton
Roaring Knight's was its own since it was crying right after killing Tenna
Gerson's was Alvin crying over his dad's death and living in the shadow
Mew Mew's was likely Asgore's crying over losing his family.

Deltarune patched it sometime ago where you do physically get a crystal from Jeevil.

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

This is one of the major things that make me believe in Evil Susie/Altered Prophecy Theory. Originally I imagine the prophecy was meant to be about Kris and Noelle's relationship, so the whole "Love finds its way to the girl" thing would've been the culmination of their journey through the Dark Worlds together. Just about every single Dark World has some sort of connection to the games that Noelle (heavily implied) and Kris used to play "King on your side, Queen on her side, Tenna in the back, it was Chaos! Chaos!"

Think of things like this, if Alphys had originally run out of chalk and needed more, she probably would've sent Kris to the closet, as he was the last to arrive, and probably Noelle as well, as the student closest to Kris to make sure Kris didn't fuck around. But instead Susie shows up at school that day (Which is itself, apparently uncommon enough to surprise Alphys). Naturally, this confuses the fuck out of the prophecy, so Susie, now in the role of the Girl knows she should fall in Love, but doesn't know what Love even really feels like. Meanwhile, Noelle, who should have been the Girl, and should have fallen in love has an unhealthy obsession with Susie. So what should've been a culmination to something, instead feels like something that's just wasting time.

Either Toby is a total fucking hack, or he's deliberately writing a romance that doesn't make sense because destiny demands it.
It could... honestly be either.

i have speculated that he is essentially playing both sides at the same time. he is possibly a hack, but he understands that and appeals to both faggots and normal people. however your theory made me believe that he's gonna pull "eat shit faggots" in the end and that would be absolutely hilarious. honestly he already did it, releasing chapter 3&4 and 5 separately was a genius 4d chess move and it makes me think that he lied about wanting to release 3&4&5 together.

i may add something to your theory. since susie is a gaster golem and gaster is in the depths, it makes me think that gaster is a fake god. he didn't create the prophecy, he just killed the original god and sent susie to alter the prophecy for his own favor. original god is probably the forgotten man, that's why he left the leftovers(thornring) in a dumpster, for us to force the ORIGINAL GAME, original prophecy back into play. hence the aggressively forced romance between kris and noelle.

she becomes stronger on this route. too strong. it almost makes me think that we're going to go on a rampage in the depths, killing titans etc. but this entire sequence was not supposed to happen in the first place. lord of the hammer had only 6 chapters, because chapter 7 is hell and in story about two lovers that would not be applicable. but here we go, into hell's stomach.

 

[LoogerLike]

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

It has a lot to offer but Ch5 being the "end" for the next year is going to bring down the experience quite a bit. Leaving off on Ch4 was much better given that chapter is far and away the best in the game in every way but mechanically, and even then it's only slightly below 5.

I would still recommend the game, just with some big ass caveats.

 

[ducktales4gameboy]

You mean Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass.

Legit solid recommendation. It's got some problems but it also has that fucking furnace scene (jesus christ) and is one of the few pieces of non-fiction media I can think of that feels like an early Stephen King book back when he could still do brooding horror and uneasiness correctly. High rec if you've got tolerance for the grind.

I got curious and checked Danbooru. There's art of exactly 3 characters from Ch5: Pink, Aqua, and Flowery. Zero of any of the other flowers, even in group shots, best I can tell.

Edit: There's like, one, of SeanSeth with Aqua.

I've glanced at Tumblr's fandom and it's entirely Seth/Aqua/Green doing three stooges stuff inline with how they behave in the game. Flowery absolutely bombed as a tumblr sexyman.

Someone in my Steam family has this game, and I'm tempted to try it since I liked Undertale. Would you guys say it's worth playing?

If you liked Undertale it's just more Undertale. That's both it's biggest strength and weakness. Regardless where the plot goes in the long run the moment-to-moment gameplay is pretty enjoyable and the jokes land more often than not.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Lil Goat faggot is STILL hiding shit.

The "Ralsei is something that Kris carries around" theory is also shot, as he appears in Castletown at the end of 5 when Kris is very clearly outside (about to kill himself).

 

[Diddyhammad]

I hope this birdy faggot is dead in the weird route.

Holy fuck, i can't stand this shit. WHAT IS EVEN THE PURPOSE OF SUSELLE!? FUCKIN TOBY YOU BASTARD

 

[Smack Patrick]

The "Ralsei is something that Kris carries around" theory is also shot, as he appears in Castletown at the end of 5 when Kris is very clearly outside (about to kill himself).

Yeah I always figured Ralsei was the red horns Kris used to wear and Kris just always had them on his person.
Doesn't make sense unless Susie stole shit from Kris at some point in the chapter and I don't remember?

 

[my penis is on fire]

Fairly intriguing theory I've seen is that Ralsei is a Plantner of a tree whose root network spreads across all of Hometown, which is why his statue-ing rules are different and why he can appear anywhere we make a fountain.
inb4 in Chapter 6 we go into Kris' backyard and discover the stump of the tree that Dess hung herself on

 

[Max Free]

The "Ralsei is something that Kris carries around" theory is also shot, as he appears in Castletown at the end of 5 when Kris is very clearly outside (about to kill himself).

IIRC, Ralseis entrance in Chapter 5 was by Kris opening a cupboard, something that is represented as the menu later on in the 2D-Platformer-segments of the game. Ralsei says Flowery stuck him in there, but who knows. Ralsei isn't the most honest soul, and he hates that guy.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

 

[Bob Barbas]

Flowery absolutely bombed as a tumblr sexyman.

I just realized, you know the reason why they keep trying to craft tumblr sexymen is to try and keep the fandom on life support between chapters.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Also Friend was apparently in Flowerys anime intro

 

[Smack Patrick]

Actually liked Flowery tbh

 

[Super Guido]

Actually liked Flowery tbh

I did end up liking him, myself. Knowing he was meant to be annoying, but not a faggot like Blue probably helps.

 

[Smack Patrick]

I did end up liking him, myself. Knowing he was meant to be annoying, but not a faggot like Blue probably helps.

>establishes with the rules of the world he can abuse cutscene mechanics to appear wherever he wants to
>joins our party early to establish with the rules of the world he can be in battle as an ally and not as an enemy
>our battle with him is kino
>chases after the knight zero hesitation to save his buddy
>abuses same cutscene mechanics from before to appear next to the Knight
>since he was a party member he can also get into battles
>initiates battle using a Floradin to drag the Knight into a fight
Kinowery.

 

[Newcomer 42]

I think there was a script change with the Weird route, as it began with being progressively evil and breaking the will of a girl, and then for this chapter it becomes more abstract and focuses on breaking boundaries, rather than taking advantage of Noe further.

 

[anliteralidiot]

I think there was a script change with the Weird route, as it began with being progressively evil and breaking the will of a girl, and then for this chapter it becomes more abstract and focuses on breaking boundaries, rather than taking advantage of Noe further.

...are you saying forcing her to walk into the lake, causing both of you to drown, wasn't evil? We don't even know if they made it, we can only speculate and make educated guesses.... But you're saying pushing her to suicide wasn't evil?

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

 

[Newcomer 42]

...are you saying forcing her to walk into the lake, causing both of you to drown, wasn't evil?

Forcing her? She forces you to walk with her into the lake (if you try to refuse, she calls you out it's too late for second-guessing and forces you inside).

Incidentally, Kris cares about her even in the last moments before drowning.

But you're saying pushing her to suicide wasn't evil?

Well yes, it is, but the way it's presented was a bit odd. Maybe because it goes from 0 to 100 just like that, and how she talks about breaking limits and everything, and what happens if you cancel the route, which implies her insane rant was not so insane, as she was onto something. My point is that while in the previous chapters she pointed out the bad stuff the soul did to her, here she doesn't even mention the thorn ring you forced onto her.