Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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You know, in hindsight, we probably ought to have seen Susie being evil as fuck coming.
The fact that there seems to be Your Best Nightmare motifs in Vs. Susie is one thing.
But when she threatens Lancer before the fight THIS shit plays:
That's Toby not even fuckin trying to hide Your Best Nightmare.
Also, "The Dark Truth" leitmotif seems to be based on this, too.

Susie actually being a Flowey tier fake friend would be an incredible twist, I'd actually kneel.
 
Shamino dijo:
Susie claims during an early puzzle that involved the generic NPC flower battle that love is when someone downright tells you that they like you -i cant recall exactly what she said-. Unlike with Kris which mostly led more towards platonic bonding and very short and awkward romantic ones (like when kris pulls her before the link knockoff we control harm her), Noelle scenes had the perk of having strong uninterrupted romantic connotations (dark world ferris wheel and lastly the lake sunset view) which led to Noelle confess to her, which naturally made an impressionable and affection starved teenager like Susie to go down bad. However, so far theyve not got past the honeymoon phase yet.
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Symbol of the Chud dijo:
You know, in hindsight, we probably ought to have seen Susie being evil as fuck coming.
The fact that there seems to be Your Best Nightmare motifs in Vs. Susie is one thing.
But when she threatens Lancer before the fight THIS shit plays: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ud9mGWvkjJQThat's Toby not even fuckin trying to hide Your Best Nightmare.
Also, "The Dark Truth" leitmotif seems to be based on this, too.

Susie actually being a Flowey tier fake friend would be an incredible twist, I'd actually kneel.
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If it turns out that Susie was playing Kris the whole time with her sob story to get closer to Noelle with Toby knowing we're hyperfocusing on Ralsei being evil I'm going to lose my shit (in a good way)
 
Oh, @Symbol of the Chud, resident wise-schizo of the thread, share with us thy wisdom. What does this mean?
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TyrasGuard dijo:
The only Flowey tier fake friend is Ralsei.
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Look, I'm not entirely convinced that Ralsei isn't literally Flowey at this point.
Cun75p4rkl35 dijo:
If it turns out that Susie was playing Kris the whole time with her sob story to get closer to Noelle with Toby knowing we're hyperfocusing on Ralsei being evil I'm going to lose my shit (in a good way)
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>Makes the character who knows a lot look extremely suspicious, even though he's apparently only doing everything he does to try to protect everyone.
>Gives the character who says she doesn't know anything the perfect alibi as she goes about living the life she's always wanted at the expense of her 'friend'.

Jhonny Jhon dijo:
Oh, @Symbol of the Chud, resident wise-schizo of the thread, share with us thy wisdom. What does this mean?
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It's pretty obvious that it means that Kris, even without the soul, is actually working to help the three heroes to banish the Angel's Heaven, but Susie will turn her back on the Three Heroes in order to keep HERCastletown. Don't be surprised when the last fountain is sealed, and Ralsei reveals that Castle Town needs to be sealed and Susie's Idea will be to destroy the Soul.
 
Última edición:
One thing I started thinking about is the UT big players interfering with things. The ones that understand determination and save/reloading. Gaster appears to have some influence and has shown to be involved along with his followers, Sans seems to have connections given the things he's collecting that appear to be stuff he has in UT, and the flowery/ralsei thing going on seems to imply Flowey too. But there's another big player of UT that no one's talking about. A creation of our own even. Whatever the hell Chara became at the end of genocide. Chara destroys the world at the end of genocide, putting its power at that point on a pretty big level. One of its last statements before it does so is that it's time to move on to the next world.

So take this with a grain of salt...but Asgore mentions that he can't quite tell what Ralsei is. And that immediately fired a neuron that reminded me that in UT, Asgore says the exact same thing to us at the end of genocide. Noelle mentions everyone being stuck in their roles in weird route and no one noticing any differences. As if she's experienced whats to come and is just resigned to it happening.

"What would this person say if I do this?...sets of numbers...lines of dialogue...thats all they are." as flowey would say.

Noelle's describing existing as an NPC. Which is why she's astonished when Kris doesn't act as an NPC anymore and no one else is noticing. She got a bit of the feeling of being the PC when we commanded her.(She also gains the ability to proceed contrary to our wishes once she has a bit of that soul inside her)

I think DR is a similar case to UT where Chara has been playing through and resetting until our arrival in line with the completionist nature. People would probably assume its Kris since he's the human and susceptible to control by us, but Noelle's dialogue seems to imply he's been playing his role too until recently.

That leaves me with two characters that seem the most suspect to me. The unnaturally arriving Susie who seems to be a mary sue who can do anything and loved by all(and bleeds!?) And Ralsei who appears to know about us(the soul) and game mechanics.
 
The ending is going to be super predictable. Something about how you should accept change and forget the past. The search for Dess will explicitly be a waste of time. There's no way The Knight is Dess. Someone else said it'll be an amalgamation of Kris And Noelle which I'm inclined to agree with.

You guys have to remember: Deltarune is a meta-narrative. Instead of a different timeline it'll be more like a scrapped demo. The demo had Kris as the main character and has now been replaced with Susie in the final version.
The lesson your supposed to learn is to accept being replaced by other people, like immigrants. It also teaches you to allow yourself to be trampled on by others, like the government or a cheating spouse. Basic "You better be a Good Goy" type of stuff.

You guy might think I'm schizo, but think about it. Undertale is literally about how it's evil to kill soul stealing monsters who constantly try to attack you. The fact Undertale doesn't allow you to side with Flowey should tell you that game's message is disingenuous. Toby Fox uses meta-narrative as a way to instill globohomo values.
 
Oilspill Battery dijo:
how they have more chemistry and are better written.
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These people live in their own dark worlds, Kris and Susie's relationship was well-executed environmental storytelling and natural narrative progression, Noelle and Susie's was literal unskippable cutscene exposition dumping.

It's almost comical how much worse Suselle is from a pure storytelling standpoint.
 
Oilspill Battery dijo:
Noelle fans are bigly mad that people are pointing out the shit writing in the chapter, start accusing everyone of homophobia/mysoginy/"lesbophobia" and talking about how heccin adorable they are and how they have more chemistry and are better writen.


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I used to think yaoi caused brain damage but holy shit yuri fans are so much unbelievably worse.
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Those people aren't actual Noelle Fans, they're just retarded yurifags.
Real Noelle fans know that in truth she fucking hates being forced into Lesbionics. REAL Noelle fucking leapt at Kris the moment she realized he and the Soul could end that monotony of being unable to make her own choices.

Jhonny Jhon dijo:
Someone just pointed out a really crazy thing to me, even as he PROCCEEDS into the lake, Kris does his best to help Noelle, using his hands to push her up.

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Of course, there is already art of this, lol.
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Kris and Noelle is easily the best written relationship in the game, even if it's only provided in snippets and vagueposts.
 
Cucktry Roads dijo:
Yep, in chapter 1 and 2, the Goner is in the library, then early in chapter 4, it is now standing in Onion-san's spot talking about the library. At the end of chapter 4, you can wait for onion-san but susie tells you to that he's probably not coming. Then you get to chapter 5, that Goner is running the octupus stand, he says originally that the food costs 2G, then says it costs free. Gold was Undertale's currency, while DR uses dollars. Then Susie says they taste like onions.
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THEY KILLED MY BROTHER'S BOAT
 
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