Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Nauseated Courgi]

Sussie didn't look at the screen and go "it's hard being a lesbian sheboon" nor did she kick Ralseis ass when it was revealed she was a white sheep instead of black while accusing him of being in black face

She? Ralsei's a boy.

 

[ShitLurker]

Yeah, I don't having gays and even troons in a work makes it inherently woke, even if it tends to attract people who are. That said i am worried that Deltarune could go into that direction considering the people Toby is currently associating with to make the game like Lena Raine.

Very true, but for now he has a solid batting record, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If the game goes from woke themes to outright preachy and pozzed... well, another one bites the dust I guess.

She? Ralsei's a boy.

Brainfarted, later I refer to Ralsei as a him in the same phrase.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Unless I'm forgetting something Undertale 2 itself isn't really what I'd call woke, it has a few transgender individuals and MAP characters in it but it's not like it goes out of its way to slap you in the face with that shit. Maybe by 2024 standards it was "progressive" but by today it's hardly notable.

I'm looking forward to this post.

 

[Ser Prize]

I'm looking forward to this post.

Slip slip, slip and sliiiide....

 

[Local Degenerate]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, at a certain point, being a huge faggot about 'but girls kiss!' is more autistic than putting it in the game in the first place. Y'all have blown past that awhile ago.

 

[The Real Me]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, at a certain point, being a huge faggot about 'but girls kiss!' is more autistic than putting it in the game in the first place. Y'all have blown past that awhile ago.

For real! I do not dislike Alphys and Noelle because they're lesbians. I dislike them because they're both ungodly annoying and Noelle in-particular never stops thirsting, every other sentence is "I wonder how Susie feels?" or "I wish Susie would piss in my mouth, like as a joke - ha ha..."

If Susie isn't in the room, Noelle should always be asking "Where's Susie?"

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

For real! I do not dislike Alphys and Noelle because they're lesbians. I dislike them because they're both ungodly annoying and Noelle in-particular never stops thirsting, every other sentence is "I wonder how Susie feels?" or "I wish Susie would piss in my mouth, like as a joke - ha ha..."

If Susie isn't in the room, Noelle should always be asking "Where's Susie?"

Both Noelle and Alphys are nerdy, so that might explain it.

 

[Metaverse Knight]

For real! I do not dislike Alphys and Noelle because they're lesbians. I dislike them because they're both ungodly annoying and Noelle in-particular never stops thirsting, every other sentence is "I wonder how Susie feels?" or "I wish Susie would piss in my mouth, like as a joke - ha ha..."

If Susie isn't in the room, Noelle should always be asking "Where's Susie?"

I find Noelle to be a boring character and wish Chapter 2 focused more on Berdly instead. There's nothing even interesting about her outside of her simping, her only character traits are that she's a rich girl who everyone likes, with her only issue being unable to tell people no and that her dad is in the hospital. Berdly meanwhile not only has flaws, but also has some of the funniest interactions in the game (and saves that awful ferris wheel scene), and I could easily imagine him as a party member acting out in a way like Susie in Chapter 1, except with him doing acts that make battles harder instead of attacking.

Also, the fanbase hates Berdly for daring to be an interesting character with flaws that is not a woman (brings to mind the Asgore spergs), so he is based.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Also, the fanbase hates Berdly for daring to be an interesting character with flaws that is not a woman (brings to mind the Asgore spergs), so he is based.

Right? Berdly is the fun type of nerd character: A cocky little bastard with an unearned sense of self-importance.

He makes every cutscene better by being there. I don't understand the hate.

 

[Peru oso donas]

For real! I do not dislike Alphys and Noelle because they're lesbians. I dislike them because they're both ungodly annoying and Noelle in-particular never stops thirsting, every other sentence is "I wonder how Susie feels?" or "I wish Susie would piss in my mouth, like as a joke - ha ha..."

If Susie isn't in the room, Noelle should always be asking "Where's Susie?"

I'd fucking love it if Noelle's crush on Susie was acknowledge to be as creepy as it looks, being a poor coping mechanism in Noelle's part because her sister disappeared/died and her father is on death's door.

 

[Colon capital V]

Right? Berdly is the fun type of nerd character: A cocky little bastard with an unearned sense of self-importance.

He makes every cutscene better by being there. I don't understand the hate.

He's such a smug dipshit and that's why I love him. +some interesting character development when he gets his shit handed to him.

Noelle in-particular never stops thirsting, every other sentence is "I wonder how Susie feels?" or "I wish Susie would piss in my mouth, like as a joke - ha ha..."

It doesn't help that once the whole gang get back together Noelle is staring at Susie's ass the whole way through. I know it's supposed to be Noelle staring at Susie's tail because she never noticed it before but cmon, toby knew what he was doing.

 

[Local Degenerate]

Right? Berdly is the fun type of nerd character: A cocky little bastard with an unearned sense of self-importance.

He makes every cutscene better by being there. I don't understand the hate.

As someone who does fucking hate Wish.com Falco, it's for the same reason you love him.

I know way too many people like that in the real world, it's just as obnoxious in game as it is anywhere else.

I can see where the love comes from though. There's a lot of awful characters that I can't help but love because they're so gung ho in being a piece of shit. Berdly just hits right in that wrong spot for me, personally.

Edit: Wording.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

As someone who does fucking hate Wish.com Falco, it's for the same reason you love him.

I know way too many people like that in the real world, it's just as obnoxious in game as it is anywhere else.

I can see where the love comes from though. There's a lot of awful characters that I can't help but love because they're so gung ho in being a piece of shit. Berdly just hits right in that wrong spot for me, personally.

Edit: Wording.

That's fair. I wouldn't care for that kind person either, but fictionally I love them.

 

[BlerdBjern]

Look it had Spamton and thats enough for me.

 

[Suck the Cock]

I find Noelle to be a boring character and wish Chapter 2 focused more on Berdly instead. There's nothing even interesting about her outside of her simping, her only character traits are that she's a rich girl who everyone likes, with her only issue being unable to tell people no and that her dad is in the hospital. Berdly meanwhile not only has flaws, but also has some of the funniest interactions in the game (and saves that awful ferris wheel scene), and I could easily imagine him as a party member acting out in a way like Susie in Chapter 1, except with him doing acts that make battles harder instead of attacking.

Also, the fanbase hates Berdly for daring to be an interesting character with flaws that is not a woman (brings to mind the Asgore spergs), so he is based.

Chapter 2 has plenty of focus on Berdly as is. He's a perfectly functional character, who everyone hates and functions as an antagonist but isn't really a bad person, which is all he needs to be. He gets more focus in the chapter than pretty much any other character already, Susie and Ralsei feeling like holdovers from the first draft who have nothing important to do in chapter 2. Berdly has fun boss fights and dramatic moments, and that's all I can ask for.

Noelle is interesting, like most of the things in this game, exclusively in the context of the hidden Snowgrave route. The boring distraction with Noelle in the middle of Chapter 2 suddenly becomes exciting and dark, her submissive neediness serving as a domestic abuse analogue instead of just being an annoying teenager. Even when replaying Chapter 2 normally, you can see Noelle as a Hulk-type danger, holding back incredible power that she can't control, which helps explain how annoying she is normally. And the route even has a good Berdly moment, for the 5 seconds he's on screen. It really feels like the entirety of Chapter 2 was first built around the hidden route and then dumbed down for the standard playthrough. Oh, and in Snowgrave she basically never mentions Susie, bonus.

 

[Metaverse Knight]

Chapter 2 has plenty of focus on Berdly as is. He's a perfectly functional character, who everyone hates and functions as an antagonist but isn't really a bad person, which is all he needs to be. He gets more focus in the chapter than pretty much any other character already, Susie and Ralsei feeling like holdovers from the first draft who have nothing important to do in chapter 2. Berdly has fun boss fights and dramatic moments, and that's all I can ask for.

Noelle is interesting, like most of the things in this game, exclusively in the context of the hidden Snowgrave route. The boring distraction with Noelle in the middle of Chapter 2 suddenly becomes exciting and dark, her submissive neediness serving as a domestic abuse analogue instead of just being an annoying teenager. Even when replaying Chapter 2 normally, you can see Noelle as a Hulk-type danger, holding back incredible power that she can't control, which helps explain how annoying she is normally. And the route even has a good Berdly moment, for the 5 seconds he's on screen. It really feels like the entirety of Chapter 2 was first built around the hidden route and then dumbed down for the standard playthrough. Oh, and in Snowgrave she basically never mentions Susie, bonus.

Yeah I can agree that the Snowgrave route does give some purpose to Noelle... That doesn't mean she isn't absolutely obnoxious in a pacifist playthrough, which is what 90% of the playerbase will be playing, especially the normies that don't look up steps to initiate an obscure route.

Fundamentally you could also get around needing Noelle for Snowgrave by having steps that initiate the Snowgrave route swap in Noelle instead of the hypothetical party member of Berdly. The chapter does have some focus on Berdly, but most of the chapter is spent with his team running away from him, and the entire time you're hiding out with Noelle she's constantly simping over Susie, exacerbating the problem. Even a few lines from Noelle wondering about how Berdly is doing or talking about the actual conflict would help things massively.

Noelle simping over Susie isn't even the problem, it's the fact that she has little else to her besides simping, and the Snowgrave route, her pacifist plot is just her learning to say no to people (something the Snowgrave route already plays around with better than the main plot), meanwhile Berdly's growth as a character could easily be expanded over an entire Chapter like Susie, his truce with Kris could even strengthen over time as he realizes that Queen doesn't really care about him, instead of Berdly also being shoved into the Susie fanclub the moment he realizes this in the actual Chapter, something like this could even fix the issue of Ralsei and Susie being thrown to the side for Noelle by giving them funny interactions with Berdly when the group reunites.

 

[ShitLurker]

Since we are on the topic of snowgrave. Really wonder how deep the branching will be. As in chapter 3 is already different depending on snowgrave or not or if it will be the sane beats with some variation in the ending.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Since we are on the topic of snowgrave. Really wonder how deep the branching will be. As in chapter 3 is already different depending on snowgrave or not or if it will be the sane beats with some variation in the ending.

Part 3 is likely to start identical regardless of if you snowgrave'd or not, purely because a point has been made that Kris' actions aren't able to change the story and Noelle is not going to be there for him to influence. That said, I'm wondering if Toriel is going to be the next target for corruption or if someone else will be there.

 

[ShitLurker]

Part 3 is likely to start identical regardless of if you snowgrave'd or not, purely because a point has been made that Kris' actions aren't able to change the story and Noelle is not going to be there for him to influence. That said, I'm wondering if Toriel is going to be the next target for corruption or if someone else will be there.

Hell, if each chapter has a corrupt angle, does make me wonder if a rejigged version of 1 will come out where you can get Sussie to go full feral.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Hell, if each chapter has a corrupt angle, does make me wonder if a rejigged version of 1 will come out where you can get Sussie to go full feral.

It could be possible but, seeing as chapter 1 is suppose to introduce everything, it would complicate where the story could go from there.

This guy actually came up with concept for what that could be like: