US U.S. birth rate hits a 35-year low - Bad news for all you Kiwis out there who want to find a mate and procreate


The number of children born in the United States has hit its lowest level in 35 years, according to new federal data, as demographers worry that a baby bust that emerged after the Great Recession is becoming permanent.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said in a report Wednesday that 3.7 million children were born in the U.S. last year, down 1 percent from 2018 and the lowest total number of births since 1985.

Birth rates dropped among women of virtually every age and race group, though they rose among women in their early 40s, the CDC found. Birth rates among teenagers dropped substantially, hitting record lows. The rate of teenagers giving birth has dropped by a whopping 60 percent since 2007, and by 73 percent since 1991.

Since the recession, the birth rate has risen year-over-year only once, in 2014. Now, demographers tracking the declining birth rate say the trend is beginning to look like a longer-term pattern.

"The fact that births and fertility continued to decline in 2019 despite the booming economy suggests that this is a permanent shift to a lower fertility regime in the U.S.," said Cheryl Russell, a demographer and contributing editor to the journal American Demographics.

Studies have shown the overall decline in birth rates is being driven by steep drops among Hispanic women and women who do not belong to religious organizations. A 2018 study by the demographer Alicia Munnell at the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College showed the rising number of women who attain college degrees and a shrinking wage gap between women and men are contributing factors, too.

The decline in birth rates is widespread among American women of every racial group. There were fewer births in 2019 among white women, black women, Native Americans, Asian Americans and Hispanic women than in 2018, the CDC data shows.

Now, demographers say the birth rate is likely to plunge even more in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic and the economic recession accompanying it. Birth rates have historically fallen in times of economic hardship, the data shows.

"Although some have predicted a coronavirus baby boom in 2021, that seems unlikely," Russell said. "It’s more likely that young women will delay becoming pregnant during this time of uncertainty, so we could see a bigger drop in births and fertility rates in 2021."
 
Are you reading my posts? Are any of you reading my posts?
I did, but most of those posts seem like they are mostly summed up with 'Have kids because kids=legacy. Even if you think you'll risk hardship from alimony or child support. Because no kids means you'll die alone."

Which I have to disagree with strongly.
Kids don't automatically equal a 'legacy.' You might have kids that are born re.tarded, get into drugs/alcohol, are born infertile or just see the world becoming a shithole or see too many bad eggs and decide not to create kids into that situation.

Then there is having kids in a bad situation. The reason birth rates go down in bad situations is because having a baby in a bad situation is one way to ensure you almost end up staying in a bad situation. Whether it is poverty, abusive relationships (because kids can be threatened to prevent a partner from leaving) financial hardship, food insecurity and more, food and expenses and schooling for kids make it harder. Throw in a pandemic that quickly showed millions of people's that wealth, health, food and jobs can easily be decimated at the whims of nature by a non-sentient virus, and people might say 'Nah, I'm not bringing kids into that.'

And as far as dying alone, you get that even with kids. Kids that find your old ass inconvenient to deal with (often because they have kids to deal with, your 'legacy') kids that have died young, and kids that move far away and don't visit you often, and it's common to hear about old people being estranged from their kids or the kid is in jail.

To sum it up, a kid is no guarantee of a 'legacy.' People should think long and hard before having a baby, and should especially not have one just to have some sort of 'legacy.' This is another human being with their own choices and predilections, and they can easily be not what you want or even evil. Having them be a 'legacy' is also giving them a job before they are even born, and what if they don't want to be one? Then it's your ideas against theirs, and then what does that do?

I say have a kid because you want one and to have something to love, but God forbid don't do it just for a fucking 'legacy' or because you need someone to wipe your wrinkled ass.
 
You say that I'm overstating the social media presence but then you start your post with a whiny incel copypasta lol

it was a... semi-joke.

I think your post is correct but I also think you're underestimating how social media has influenced people. Back when the Covington thing happened it got thousands of people to send death threats to a high schooler just for standing there. You really think it doesn't influence people to avoid each other because they think the other person is automatically a thot/incel? Come on dude.

I think it does, but I also believe that the primary issues at play are personal and have developed over a longer time span than even the conception of the internet at DARPA. In that sense, social media is more of a catalyst.

'Hang on if i have this kid its going to have a shitty life isn't an excuse, it's actually exercising your higher cognition instead of just breeding like a dumb animal
Hell even rats can reabsorb a fetus in times of crisis
You aren't dumber than a rat are you?

Yeah, but most people now don't think that. They think "hey if I have a kid I'll have to actually be something resembling a responsible parent and that means no more fun". Instead of breeding like dumb animals, they've chosen to have sex without breeding like even dumber animals.

...animals that were somehow smart enough to come up with a way to better facilitate their idiocy.

Like many have said, it's expensive for the middle class to have kids.

It's not expensive for the middle class, it's expensive period. Having children is an expensive investment of time, energy, and money, and it always has been.

But everyone manages.

How are today's teens going to handle dating and mating when that is the message they're going to be fed for years to come?

By eating Tide pods on TikTok/OnlyFans.
Well, you managed to convince me women's rights were a mistake, good job.

Women's rights weren't a mistake, but society struggles with teaching women the co-requisite responsibility.

Kids don't automatically equal a 'legacy.'

Children are one's legacy by default. That's inherent to one's offspring.
 
Women's rights weren't a mistake, but society struggles with teaching women the co-requisite responsibility.
Which they have exercised, by not having children before they are ready, when they are financially stable, and mentally and physically able to raise a child.

Children are one's legacy by default. That's inherent to one's offspring.
I mean in the social sense, not in the genetic sense. Otherwise a cockroach can be said to have a 'legacy' while parents of adoptees end up having none.
 
it was a... semi-joke.


I think it does, but I also believe that the primary issues at play are personal and have developed over a longer time span than even the conception of the internet at DARPA. In that sense, social media is more of a catalyst.

Yeah, but most people now don't think that. They think "hey if I have a kid I'll have to actually be something resembling a responsible parent and that means no more fun". Instead of breeding like dumb animals, they've chosen to have sex without breeding like even dumber animals.

...animals that were somehow smart enough to come up with a way to better facilitate their idiocy.


It's not expensive for the middle class, it's expensive period. Having children is an expensive investment of time, energy, and money, and it always has been.

But everyone manages.



By eating Tide pods on TikTok/OnlyFans.


Women's rights weren't a mistake, but society struggles with teaching women the co-requisite responsibility.


Children are one's legacy by default. That's inherent to one's offspring.

I've never seen the point of a legacy

Once youre dead you cease to exist
You're literally incapable of caring about your legacy

Seems a shit trade for 18+ years of your life

Then go forth and live as you wish, there's nothing wrong with that.

Just remember this line in forty years when you see the people around you that went ahead and had children and met their spouses, and compare their lives to your own.

I'm not saying you're a bad person for not wanting kids or whatever, but I also remember what my mom told me when I was in highschool: she was part of the first wave feminist generation. She decided it wasn't for her and married my dad and had children of her own. Now she's retired and she's been watching her ideological friends become lonely, dried up, and bitter because their peers had families and they didn't. Meanwhile the ladies that didn't drink the koolaid get to have happy lives.

That's the future I foresee for the guys who opt out. You feel young now and like you can go on forever doing the lone wolf shit. Maybe you can, i dunno. I know I can't. How comforting will that be when you're gray? Men are not immune to loneliness and regret. There's no winning or superiority there.

It's not immoral to not have any children, I'm not saying that. Everyone should be free to live their lives as they see fit so long as they don't hurt themselves or others. But doing something strictly out of fear or out of ideological reasons often leaves people broken and alone.


I'm so fucking tired of the mouse colony experiment jesus christ. Find another talking point.

The whole idea of feeling bad about not having kids is just weird to me
You come into life without asking and you leave with nothing
In the meantime there's a world of experience to explore
I don't believe in heaven or hell so i'll use my life for all it can provide me, then end it myself when the reward to suffering ratio hits terminal decline
 
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I did, but most of those posts seem like they are mostly summed up with 'Have kids because kids=legacy. Even if you think you'll risk hardship from alimony or child support. Because no kids means you'll die alone."

Which I have to disagree with strongly.
Kids don't automatically equal a 'legacy.' You might have kids that are born re.tarded, get into drugs/alcohol, are born infertile or just see the world becoming a shithole or see too many bad eggs and decide not to create kids into that situation.

Then there is having kids in a bad situation. The reason birth rates go down in bad situations is because having a baby in a bad situation is one way to ensure you almost end up staying in a bad situation. Whether it is poverty, abusive relationships (because kids can be threatened to prevent a partner from leaving) financial hardship, food insecurity and more, food and expenses and schooling for kids make it harder. Throw in a pandemic that quickly showed millions of people's that wealth, health, food and jobs can easily be decimated at the whims of nature by a non-sentient virus, and people might say 'Nah, I'm not bringing kids into that.'

And as far as dying alone, you get that even with kids. Kids that find your old ass inconvenient to deal with (often because they have kids to deal with, your 'legacy') kids that have died young, and kids that move far away and don't visit you often, and it's common to hear about old people being estranged from their kids or the kid is in jail.

To sum it up, a kid is no guarantee of a 'legacy.' People should think long and hard before having a baby, and should especially not have one just to have some sort of 'legacy.' This is another human being with their own choices and predilections, and they can easily be not what you want or even evil. Having them be a 'legacy' is also giving them a job before they are even born, and what if they don't want to be one? Then it's your ideas against theirs, and then what does that do?

I say have a kid because you want one and to have something to love, but God forbid don't do it just for a fucking 'legacy' or because you need someone to wipe your wrinkled ass.
But making kids so you can have someone to look after you in old age is a legitimate reason for having kids. We can't all be super playboy astrophysicist millionaires who need not worry about who will take care of them in the future. Not everyone wants to risk being stuck in a home, and while children by themselves are no guarantee of not getting put in a home, having them raises your chances, the more the better. Children are a valid investment into one's future. Their reward for which are the gifts of life and consciousness, paid in advance.
 
Which they have exercised, by not having children before they are ready, when they are financially stable, and mentally and physically able to raise a child.

And we're socializing many of them to never be ready, along those lines.

I mean in the social sense, not in the genetic sense. Otherwise a cockroach can be said to have a 'legacy' while parents of adoptees end up having none.

The former is true, but the latter can easily be false.
I've never seen the point of a legacy

Once youre dead you cease to exist
You're literally incapable of caring about your legacy

Seems a shit trade for 18+ years of your life

I'd like to have children because I'd like to have more people to love and be loved by with my wife that I'd also love.

Sounds like a pretty decent trade. That, and it'd be more than 18 years of my life, invariably-- my parenthood wouldn't cease just because my child became old enough to get drafted. Why would it?
 
And we're socializing many of them to never be ready, along those lines.



The former is true, but the latter can easily be false.


I'd like to have children because I'd like to have more people to love and be loved by with my wife that I'd also love.

Sounds like a pretty decent trade. That, and it'd be more than 18 years of my life, invariably-- my parenthood wouldn't cease just because my child became old enough to get drafted. Why would it?
The your an adult at 18 is a really North American thing. Europeans and Asians believe you’re a child until you get married.
 
The your an adult at 18 is a really North American thing. Europeans and Asians believe you’re a child until you get married.

And Africans.

Pretty much everyone outside America.

Which is weird, because America isn't actually socializing youth into adulthood by 18. Or rather, they don't do so effectively.
 
Reading Honka's and other's thoughts about being thrown under the bus in a family court situation and living a shitty life where you pay child support and eat stale chips in your shitty apartment forever - yeah, I totally get it. I absolutely understand not even wanting the chance of that happening.

From my perspective, I sure as hell don't want to be a single mother. I don't want to fuck up any kids I have in the future, if I get to have them at all. I want a stable, loving, responsible relationship with a man who wants to be a father, but that all sounds too optimistic somehow.

A lot of people are really fucked up. Mental illness out the wazoo, high levels of stress, economic factors - I don't blame anyone for not wanting to have babies if they feel as helpless as a baby themselves.
 
But making kids so you can have someone to look after you in old age is a legitimate reason for having kids. We can't all be super playboy astrophysicist millionaires who need not worry about who will take care of them in the future. Not everyone wants to risk being stuck in a home, and while children by themselves are no guarantee of not getting put in a home, having them raises your chances, the more the better. Children are a valid investment into one's future. Their reward for which are the gifts of life and consciousness, paid in advance.
There is no guarantee your children will be willing or able to care for you when you're old. What if they're disabled? What if they're self absorbed assholes? You can do your absolute best when raising your children and still have no guarantee with how they'll turn out. If you want a guarantee that someone will look after you in old age, save your money to hire caretakers.
 
What I'm getting out of this is that none of us on KF should have kids because we will inevitably produce speds being that we're reeeetarded as well
Sorry guys we're all just one step above needing a diaper and a feeding tube
 
Why does there need to be any reason?
Some people dont want to have kids, shits expensive and this aint the 50's
Agreed. It's one thing to have people that want kids, but when you get people telling you that you are automatically destined to be old, alone, and unloved with nobody to remember you unless you do what they deem is 'good for you' (reproduce) then it starts bordering on self-righteous arrogance. Many of these folks don't even take into account the people that do want kids but can't have them for whatever reason, like genetic disease, sterility or infertility, recurring miscarriages, injury or congenital malformations of the reproductive organs. Adoption is not easy to come by, so are they up shit's creek because they have no 'legacy' to wipe their wrinkled asses?
There is no recognition of the different roles men and women have in reproduction and raising a family. Modern women's rights treat women as dickless men.
This line of thinking actually reinforces the negative issues that some had been talking about earlier. Where women are 'awarded' children over the men in custody battles because they are seen as the 'natural sex' for 'nurturing children.' Even if they are shit drug addled mothers and the father fighting for them that is the sane, stable parent, it's her 'natural role' in 'reproduction.'
 
Having children is a sign of confidence in the future world being a better place. Optimism in practice, if you will.
Its self importance thinking your line needs to go on, I would argue many people should never pass down their bad genes due to ill mental and bodily health.
Not to mention if you cannot afford a child you really shouldn't be having a child to live in that poverty.
ETA: Also I do not believe its for a positive future not to mention we are in no short supply of humans. We will only be here for a blink of an eye compared to the universe.
 
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