Transgenderism and Mental Illness - Can you be trans and batshit?

[Dr. Boe Jangles Esq.]

So Autphag's recent spergout led me to an interesting question. I think we might have had one or two threads like this, but there was a particular question in specific I'd like this thread to focus on, given how often it pops up on the farms:
Can someone with significant mental impairment be said to have the awareness needed to have gender issues? If so, where is the cutoff? If a man is a delusional psychotic, but claims to feel like a woman, is this a symptom of dysphoria or just a manifestation of his delusional thinking?

 

[AnOminous]

So Autphag's recent spergout led me to an interesting question. I think we might have had one or two threads like this, but there was a particular question in specific I'd like this thread to focus on, given how often it pops up on the farms:
Can someone with significant mental impairment be said to have the awareness needed to have gender issues? If so, where is the cutoff? If a man is a delusional psychotic, but claims to feel like a woman, is this a symptom of dysphoria or just a manifestation of his delusional thinking?

At a certain level of nutso, and Autphag is well past that, you have to take their claims of being a woman about as seriously as you'd take their claims of being Napoleon or Jesus or some shit like that.

 

[Somsnosa]

It's an hard and interesting question cause mental illnesses can't really be analyzed with precision, plus you gotta add the political ideology that has way too much influence when talking of gender dysphoria. It's messy and all over the place. I now am wondering if gender dysphoria can be a thing on his own and a symptom of another mental illness.
Like putting Laverne Cox and Narcissa Wright in comparision

 

[ICametoLurk]

you have to take their claims of being a woman about as seriously as you'd take their claims of being Napoleon or Jesus or some shit like that.

Should be done to all trannies.

 

[BadaBadaBoom]

First off "delusional thinking" is a blanket term and doesn't quite pinpoint individual problems a person may have. There are multiple types of mental illness involving an array of different causes and sources. For instance you can have chemical deficiencies where the brain doesn't release dopamine properly leading to a variety of problems such as anxiety and then you can have illnesses of a less chemical nature that are induced by how one is raised such as traumatic experiences and the like. Since gender (not the sex you are born with) is a social construct that determines what is acceptable to wear, say, do etc. You are dealing less with a chemical imbalance (possibly) and more an inability to cope with societal expectations or some other trauma that may have led to wanting to defy them.

As for if someone with significant mental impairment can be said to have the awareness needed to have gender issues? It's possible to have strong mental problems in one area but then have less in another. However the bottom line is, even if you match the symptoms of Gender Dysphoria, treatment would be determined based on how effective it is to deal with that particular problem versus any others a person may have. If, for instance, you hear voices in your head, have violent nervous tics, and hate the clothes you're wearing; the clothes problem is only going to be actively dealt with if it's creating a similar detriment on the person's ability to cope and achieve normalcy in their day-to-day life.

The main point of therapy is to ultimately get a person feeling good enough to stop being a negative influence on themselves and others and to live a normal life. If it's determined that a complete nutbag can be calmed down enough to rejoin society through a combination of medication, therapy, and wearing a dress then that's what the treatment will be. If, when treating the other problems, the Gender Dysphoria no longer seems to be bothering the person, then that would obviously no longer be a concern.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

f it's determined that a complete nutbag can be calmed down enough to rejoin society through a combination of medication, therapy, and wearing a dress then that's what the treatment will be.

There's the problem, in the 80s trannies used to be judged by the authenticity of their feminity and gender dysphoria. Putting masculine men like OPL and Autophag in skirts only serves to corrode societal boundaries and not treat the real problem. If you look at most of the troons here, putting on skirts and taking hormones obviously does not fix any of their problems.

Since gender (not the sex you are born with) is a social construct that determines what is acceptable to wear, say, do etc. You are dealing less with a chemical imbalance (possibly) and more an inability to cope with societal expectations or some other trauma that may have led to wanting to defy them.

This seems to be the cause of most newer troon cases.

Like putting Laverne Cox and Narcissa Wright in comparision

Laverne Cox is a really a terrible example because they still come across as a gay man in a wig, so you would think they would still have some residual dysphoria.....but apparently, they just love being noticed.
I think that the authenticity of a transperson is even called into question regarding someone like Laverne because how can you not know you still come across like a gay, black man in wig? I am not trying to be hypercritical or anything, but if I looked like Laverne Cox at their best, I would probably want to kill myself.
Cox is manly looking even for a black woman.

 

[Positron]

An important concept in psychiatry is "insight" -- a patient's recognition that something is awry. A therapist is supposed to assess a patient's insight to see how much of the patient's words can be taken as face value. In case of trannyism, I think the line is between "I feel horrible, because I feel as if I were a woman but I know I'm a man" and "I'm literally a woman; the doctor who attended my birth was mistaken." -- the former is an honest, insightful appraisal to his situation while the latter is sheer delusion. It is interesting that trannies are now pushing delusion as The Way To Be.

 

[John Titor]

The incredibly sad part is that this could have been avoided if their parents didn't get them the circumcision for their phimosis. They decided it was too risky for Brian after they botched David's and it turns out that his phimosis cleared naturally.

 

[tiggered]

dunno if people want to hear my troon ass views but i'll say this much;

people love to deny this all the time like it's blasphemy but gender dysphoria is a mental illness in of itself, but not in the ways of schizophrenia, or how most social stigma deems mental illness.

it is tricky to say that you feel like a man/woman, or to claim that you are, but what happens is with gender dysphoria is the disconnect with your body, and in most cases, you form suicidal urges or tendencies the more you continue to live life as the gender you want absolutely nothing to do with. the language may not be appropriate, but it's the best some people can come up with.

:powerlevel:; i know that i'll always just be a mutated body & never actually be the biological gender that i wish i was; so i can understand saying "i am a man" or "i am a woman" as somewhat of a positive affirmation to one's self, as the reality of what you actually are makes you want to kill yourself each day.
unless you're a trender, who has no real concept of this.

in which case i could undeniably see someone taking that too far, into actually believing they're a biological man or woman, which is in fact delusional. it's just that with SJWs, they have no boundaries or lines that they make not to cross unless it's convenient, and thus further makes us look like a big fucking joke.

there is the possibility of an mental illness offsetting gender dysphoria, but ultimately it is a case by case issue that can't truly be determined on a general basis.

different mental illnesses can bounce off each other & affect how a person functions in their daily life, but essentially what would be considered a cutoff is a blurred line unless you're a professional who has the capability to differentiate such things, in my perspective, which is kind of skewed anyways.

 

[Somsnosa]

I don't get why it's bad to consider gender dysphoria a mental illness, as if mental illnesses are a terrible thing.

 

[Joan Nyan]

Trannies are already mentally ill. I see no reason why a man who thinks he's a woman should be treated any differently from any other delusion. If I told you that I see little green men sleeping under my bed, unless you wanted to be a dick you wouldn't try to change reality to fit my delusion, you'd take me to a therapist who would try to help me realize my delusions are incorrect.

 

[Lurkman]

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, but it's not a bad one. It's just there really, not harming you but also not helping you.

Now the other mental disorders associated with it bring gender dysphoria a bad image overall. I feel it is unfair to judge something on the initial surface or make a rash conclusion of what the problem is based on a short look.

 

[Bani]

I don't get why it's bad to consider gender dysphoria a mental illness, as if mental illnesses are a terrible thing.

I think it should be- not because it's necessarily a bad thing, but because people will take it more seriously if the medical community does. Most of the annoying transgenders out there are teenagers without gender dysphoria trying to be "unique" and "oppressed".

More research needs to be done into gender dysphoria, in my opinion. The more scientific and specified the description of it is, the harder it is for fakers like Chris-chan to elbow their way into the community. The bottom line is that being trans needs to stop being a treated like a fad by people who want attention, because it makes the responsible trans adults out there look like they think the same way when they don't.

Slight powerleveling, but I have a family friend who is transgender, and I honestly wished more people in the trans community acted like she does. She's proud of her identity, but it's not the only thing she talks about- in fact, the only times it ever gets brought up is when somebody else asks, in my experience. She also presents feminine and actually looks like any other girl. The only giveaway is her voice, pretty much.

It sucks that Tumblr has made this out to be some sort of glamorous fad when it's just... a thing some people have. I promise you, non-Tumblr, non-Chris-chan-like trans people are actually pretty alright and normal.

 

[AnOminous]

It sucks that Tumblr has made this out to be some sort of glamorous fad when it's just... a thing some people have. I promise you, non-Tumblr, non-Chris-chan-like trans people are actually pretty alright and normal.

If you literally blew up tumblr and killed everyone who ran it, I don't think the cancer would spread any more.

 

[escapegoat]

I have seen the argument that some transgendered people have a neurological mapping issue, similar to phantom limb pains. The brain has a system for figuring out the body, and supposedly, in some people the gendered parts of the map are wrong. There is a similar argument for the people who think they have too many legs, who then dry ice themselves to they can be amputated. I don't know if it's right, as a hypothesis, but I suppose it could be.

In general, I think it's a sexual fetish, though.

 

[Positron]

I have seen the argument that some transgendered people have a neurological mapping issue, similar to phantom limb pains. The brain has a system for figuring out the body, and supposedly, in some people the gendered parts of the map are wrong. There is a similar argument for the people who think they have too many legs, who then dry ice themselves to they can be amputated. I don't know if it's right, as a hypothesis, but I suppose it could be.

It is very questionable even as a hypothesis.

Patients with phantom limb pains actually did own said limbs previously, hence the brain has a representation of that limb. Men never have vaginas and vulvas, so where does the neural representation of these organs come from?

 

[AnOminous]

Patients with phantom limb pains actually did own said limbs previously, hence the brain has a representation of that limb. Men never have vaginas and vulvas, so where does the neural representation of these organs come from?

The X chromosome has everything you need to make a female human.

Any living human has at least one of those.

 

[Positron]

The X chromosome has everything you need to make a female human.

Any living human has at least one of those.

Even if we accept that the whole neural network is encoded in genes (instead of developing and remodeling as a response to the bodily change, severing obsolete connections and building new ones), there is still the problem about "naming the sensation". A male person with a hypothetical "female" wiring will notice something is not right. Perhaps the penis shouldn't be there; perhaps "something else" should be there instead -- but how can the patient tell this "something else" means "female genitals"? The X chromosome hardly whispers "vagina, vagina" in his ears.

 

[Joan Nyan]

Even if we accept that the whole neural network is encoded in genes (instead of developing and remodeling as a response to the bodily change, severing obsolete connections and building new ones), there is still the problem about "naming the sensation". A male person with a hypothetical "female" wiring will notice something is not right. Perhaps the penis shouldn't be there; perhaps "something else" should be there instead -- but how can the patient tell this "something else" means "female genitals"? The X chromosome hardly whispers "vagina, vagina" in his ears.

I mean, there's only 2 options for what should be down there. If you think what you have is wrong there's only one possibility for what else you should have.

 

[fuckaidsrape]

Trannies are already mentally ill. I see no reason why a man who thinks he's a woman should be treated any differently from any other delusion. If I told you that I see little green men sleeping under my bed, unless you wanted to be a dick you wouldn't try to change reality to fit my delusion, you'd take me to a therapist who would try to help me realize my delusions are incorrect.

It may be that becoming trans is what makes them mentally ill, estradiol is one of the most excitotoxic, inflammatory hormones in the body.