Transgender Bathrooms - The growing crisis.

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Puppet Pal Clem dijo:
It is not mentally healthy if you cannot emotionally come to terms with the reality you will never be the opposite sex, and it is not necessarily society's responsibility to cater to that delusion.
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I'm not quite sure you're aware of what a delusion actually is. Dysphoria is not a delusion. Trans people are well-aware they're born the opposite sex.

In radically simplified terms, dysphoria is basically negative signaling to an "opposite-sexed brain". You're missing this, or the presence of that feels alien. I've heard of trans people who tie their genitals to ceiling fans and leap off the bed. Delusional people would outright deny they even had the wrong genitals.

So no, we're not "catering to a delusion", we're acknowledging that these people are what they are. This is a finding arrived at via close evaluation by a professional, it's not just a mere declaration that someone chooses. It's certainly easy to think that with transtrenders, though. They're in for a nasty surprise when they try so hard to be trans but aren't.

Gender dysphoria is the "mental illness", a term people seem to bandy about as an insult more than what it actually means in reference to being trans.
 
KatsuKitty dijo:
Dysphoria is not a delusion. tranny people are well-aware they're born the opposite sex.
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It probably wouldn't help anything to get too much into semantics, but this is interesting and would be helpful to clarify.

If a transgender people are able to acknowledge they cannot physically be the opposite sex, why then is there any conflict?
This seems like an explicit admission of their own understanding of the issue, and yet they expect people to respond to some assuredly real but unquantifiable discomfort?
That the issue is not their own incapacity to understand, but that it simply makes them feel bad?
This seems even less justifiable to me, that the whole world should be their "safe space".

The solution is simple. Don't be a whinybaby.
There are things in this world that cause me intense discomfort, so I avoid them, or in the instances where I must face them I simply suck it up and do them.
It doesn't even begin to occur to me that the infrastructure of society should change to suit my whim, that I should have the right to violate the privacy of others, nor that I would be justified in saying so. I am fully aware that this discomfort is irrational, and I fully assume the burden of that because the issue is entirely localized within me.
The world doesn't move for me or my problems, I get out of its way.

I understand this is a larger issue in regards to mental health, in more instances than just gender dysphoria.
Another example would be depression, which is notably difficult for other unaffected individuals to understand.
And yet, there is still no pretense that society should move for depressed individuals.
We understand that they are afflicted, but not how the affliction feels, and yet at the point where it influences there capacity to function in society, that individual is a burden.

If you can acknowledge it's an illness, a mental illness, but still want to be judged as a functional member of society, the weight of that illness is to be placed on your shoulders.

On the other hand, there are transgender people who truly believe themselves to be the opposite sex.
They say they were "born a woman" or a man. It may not be fair to compare, but Brianna Wu very easily described his childhood self as a little girl.
They respond to the reality of their sex with anger. To be reminded of that reality can create intense anxiety.
This is the basis of delusion, the honest belief that they are the opposite sex despite the physical reality of what they are.
Not simply acting or playing pretend or dressing up as, but believe themselves to be the opposite sex.
 
Puppet Pal Clem dijo:
On the other hand, there are transgender people who truly believe themselves to be the opposite sex.
They say they were "born a woman" or a man. It may not be fair to compare, but Brianna Wu very easily described his childhood self as a little girl.
They respond to the reality of their sex with anger. To be reminded of that reality can create intense anxiety.
This is the basis of delusion, the honest belief that they are the opposite sex despite the physical reality of what they are.
Not simply acting or playing pretend or dressing up as, but believe themselves to be the opposite sex.
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Brianna Wu is a rather terrible example of most trans people. She pretends she's cis because she doesn't want to acknowledge she's trans. That is delusional. I can name so many other things about her that make her a train wreck; she just happens to be a trans train wreck.

The vast majority of us make no bones about it because yeah, we were born the wrong sex and nothing will change that. If you can't face that reality then you need better coping mechanisms. But that doesn't mean we're defined by our bodies, we're defined by our brains, which is who we actually are. And that's why people make reference to gender identity instead of sex; for that concept you want to think "brain sex". For trans people, the two are incongruent; this is the essence of the condition.
 
Puppet Pal Clem dijo:
Then why is this an issue?
Just go in the bathroom defined by your biological sex.
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1) Trans women face the same assaults and grevious bodily harm at the hands of men
2) Trans men shouldn't be using the women's room around little girls for that reason
3) It doesn't have to be as retarded as "letting people choose their bathroom", which is the false narrative that SJWs are pushing and that others are (understandably) pushing back against. Nobody is asking that male-presenting cis men should be allowed to use the women's room because they "choose" it...except perhaps SJWs.

I think Ghost said it best. Nobody's going to bitch if you pass. If someone sees a lumbering CWC or Stefonknee using the restroom, they have a decent case because this person is so obviously not trans. Nobody wants men in the women's restroom. Trans women (who go through the treatment and make the effort) aren't men if you're talking about gender, and they especially are not more of a danger to women than other women.

(That being said, just let private businesses decide how to run their own bathrooms. As usual, we're complicating the matter by begging Big Government to shape our social life.)
 
KatsuKitty dijo:
Nobody's going to bitch if you pass.
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This isn't legally definable in any useful way that wouldn't be interpreted as discrimination.
At best it would be subject to how comfortable women feel around other transgenders in the bathroom, defining whether or not a transgender person could use the restroom, which is silly in its own way and gives an individual too much power over another.

Not that it should be some matter of law in the first place, but trans-activists made it an issue, and now its on the national circuit.
So fun times over, pull out your birth certificates, go in the restroom defined by your chromosomes, and "man-up".
 
It's only an issue because the Civil Rights Act gave people the mistaken impression for 50 years, that government has the right to tell businesses how to run if it involves "discrimination".

The real solution, as always, is leave it up to the people. There will always be an open business that doesn't discrimate against blacks, muslims, gays, or trannies. People will go to the establishments they feel is best for them. I discuss what businesses should do, not what they should forced to do.
 
KatsuKitty dijo:
It's only an issue because the Civil Rights Act gave people the mistaken impression for 50 years, that government has the right to tell businesses how to run if it involves "discrimination".

The real solution, as always, is leave it up to the people. There will always be an open business that doesn't discrimate against blacks, muslims, gays, or trannies. People will go to the establishments they feel is best for them. I discuss what businesses should do, not what they should forced to do.
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I feel like we agree, but not in a way that more than 50% of the populace would acknowledge as an acceptable resolution.
 
KatsuKitty dijo:
It's only an issue because the Civil Rights Act gave people the mistaken impression for 50 years, that government has the right to tell businesses how to run if it involves "discrimination".

The real solution, as always, is leave it up to the people. There will always be an open business that doesn't discrimate against blacks, muslims, gays, or trannies. People will go to the establishments they feel is best for them. I discuss what businesses should do, not what they should forced to do.
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The government already has the right to tell businesses how to run in many issues. Like sanitation in restaurants, for example. There certainly are businesses that will cater to blacks, but it's a lower quality selection. Black people are kept in poverty because of these sort of things.
 
Generally speaking, society should change in the light of new evidence. If we've somehow decided that black people are too stupid to vote, and therefore need to take a rigged literacy test in order to prove their competence, then we need to change that.

Somewhere down the line, for reasons that aren't entirely unreasonable, society had decided that genitals and chromosomes are the end-all-be-all of gender, despite not knowing all too much about how sex chromosomes actually work. That incorrect assumption has finally caught up to us, and things like bathroom bill debacles are now the result. This is what comes from new information. It has very little to do with making the rest of the general public cowtow to the sensitivities of a small group of people.
 
I believe that in the case of privately owned businesses, the decision should be left up for the owners of the establishments so that they can, if they want to, allow transgender people to use whatever they choose, but also they can choose to accommodate people who are concerned about the abuse of these privileges and kick out fetishists like Jordman without having to fear lawsuits ending them and their business.
 
What's more morally repugnant: Anti-LGBT legislation proposed because its backers believe it to be a mere lifestyle, and an abhorrent one, at that; or anti-LGBT legislation passed because its backers can't govern worth a shit, so they're willing to fuck around with some of their constituents' lives just to keep the pearl-clutchers' jimmies rustled?
 
Henry Bemis dijo:
What's more morally repugnant: Anti-LGBT legislation proposed because its backers believe it to be a mere lifestyle, and an abhorrent one, at that; or anti-LGBT legislation passed because its backers can't govern worth a shit, so they're willing to fuck around with some of their constituents' lives just to keep the pearl-clutchers' jimmies rustled?
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I'd say the latter, because the former are, at least, honest and sincere in their beliefs.

It's sort of like the difference between an honest Klansman and someone who just espouses racism for political advantage. The former, you can probably trust to keep his word, at least.
 
I'd second the latter too. The people who operate on that basis are snakes through and through and would probably sell their grandmothers if it meant extra votes.

The people who think it's "just a phase" might be misguided and, in my opinion wrong, but at least they hold that belief sincerely.
 
Ponderous Pillock dijo:
I'd second the latter too. The people who operate on that basis are snakes through and through and would probably sell their grandmothers if it meant extra votes.

The people who think it's "just a phase" might be misguided and, in my opinion wrong, but at least they hold that belief sincerely.
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Another thing is the sincere racists may eventually realize they're wrong and reform themselves. The person who was never acting according to moral principles in the first place is not going to start.
 
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