The TPP

[SU 390]

Yeah they should, people in other countries need jobs more than you guys do.

The unemployment rate in America is pretty bad. I'm all about caring for others, but we have an $18 trillion debt that's not going down anytime soon. America having jobs is just as important as other countries. It's hard enough here in the States anywhere else, so I need to care about my country first. We're(U.S.A) always caring and helping other countries. Let us fix our shit first.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

The unemployment rate in America is pretty bad. I'm all about caring for others, but we have an $18 trillion debt that's not going down anytime soon. America having jobs is just as important as other countries. It's hard enough here in the States anywhere else, so I need to care about my country first. We're(U.S.A) always caring and helping other countries. Let us fix our shit first.

Not just the USA- Canada's just as bad, if not worse, in that regard. This doesn't mean I'm saying the unemployment rate in America's a good thing, quite the contrary, I feel for you guys. 18 Trillion is a lot of money. But the TPP's just as bad here in regards to jobs as it would be there.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

The unemployment rate in America is pretty bad. I'm all about caring for others, but we have an $18 trillion debt that's not going down anytime soon. America having jobs is just as important as other countries. It's hard enough here in the States anywhere else, so I need to care about my country first. We're(U.S.A) always caring and helping other countries. Let us fix our shit first.

the purpose of this is not some sort of self sacrificing altruism in order to "help" other countries, it's to help wealthy multinationals find cheap labor to exploit since Mexico is becoming more unstable due to the power of the cartels.

 

[Zeorus]

This reeks of some kind of Faustian bargain. The only question is who Mephistopheles is.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

The unemployment rate in America is pretty bad. It's hard enough here in the States anywhere else, so I need to care about my country first.

Maybe, but it seems naive to expect other people to put your country first.

We're(U.S.A) always caring and helping other countries.

 

[SU 390]

Not just the USA- Canada's just as bad, if not worse, in that regard. This doesn't mean I'm saying the unemployment rate in America's a good thing, quite the contrary, I feel for you guys. 18 Trillion is a lot of money. But the TPP's just as bad here in regards to jobs as it would be there.

I feel for Canada too. Which is why I oppose to it.

the purpose of this is not some sort of self sacrificing altruism in order to "help" other countries, it's to help wealthy multinationals find cheap labor to exploit since Mexico is becoming more unstable due to the power of the cartels.

I'm not happy with that at all. Finding cheap labor is wrong plus it affects people going into a Trade.

Maybe, but it seems naive to expect other people to put your country first.

Since when has the U.S. not helped other countries?

 

[Dudeofteenage]

When I think of the things that makes the USA stand out in the international community, its general kindness and helpfulness is not one of them.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

Since when has the U.S. not helped other countries?

We sure helped South America overthrow those pesky democratically elected leaders and replace them with despotic war criminals. When we do seemingly altruistic things, it's so we can use it to serve our own best interests. It's called "soft power"

 

[Dudeofteenage]

We sure helped South America overthrow those pesky democratically elected leaders and replace them with despotic war criminals. When we do seemingly altruistic things, it's so we can use it to serve our own best interests. It's called "soft power"

I think you've got it wrong. Using force to replace leaders who you dislike with ones you like is hard power. Soft power is cultural/educational/economic power. Of course the USA has loads of both.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

I think you've got it wrong. Using force to replace leaders who you dislike with ones you like is hard power. Soft power is cultural/educational/economic power. Of course the USA has loads of both.

I am aware of the difference. I was just highlighting how wrong it is to say that the US is the giving tree of the world. Even when we give aid, it's for the purposes of spreading American hegemony

 

[DuskEngine]

Yeah, exporting more jobs is, in the short term, good for several other nations that are signing up for the deal, but it is definitely solving the wrong problem.

Their wages will be driven up, sure, but they'll still be a fraction of what wages in the rich world are at all but the highest levels.

EDIT: of course cost of living is significantly lower in these nations too, but, a big part of that is because real estate is distorted beyond belief in most developed nations.

 

[Datiko]

Manufacturing and service industries in the TPP nations stand to benefit since many have highly educated workforces that cost less to hire. Agricultural interests are scared to have no trade barriers between them and their cheaper neighbors/subsidized US produce.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Manufacturing and service industries in the TPP nations stand to benefit since many have highly educated workforces that cost less to hire. Agricultural interests are scared to have no trade barriers between them and their cheaper neighbors/subsidized US produce.

One of the main goals of the non-US TPP members is to get the USA (and also Japan) to dial back their agricultural subsidies, although if they can accomplish that it will be an iconic diplomatic triumph on par with setting up the EU.

I am aware of the difference. I was just highlighting how wrong it is to say that the US is the giving tree of the world. Even when we give aid, it's for the purposes of spreading American hegemony

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. I will say though, contra my general stance here, I think extending American hegemony is sometimes an acceptable price to pay in exchange for real aid (I'm mostly thinking disaster/disease prevention/food aid). A lot of leftists I know applaud Ron Paul's proposal that the US end all foreign aid because "it's just used to extend Imperialism", which is certainly true, but it is making the perfect the enemy of the somewhat acceptable.

Honestly if American imperialism mostly manifested itself in the strategic deployment of aid that would be pretty awesome.