The relation between Morality and Religion

[autisticdragonkin]

Are they the same topic. Are they completely different topics. If the former how and if the latter what is their relation

 

[Zeorus]

I think they're deeply intertwined—after all, codes of morality are a near-universal feature of religion—but not necessarily the same. One can be moral without being religious and vice versa.

 

[Eponine]

I think that religion places its basis in morality and socially accepted dogma for the cultures and time periods in which they originate, and that this thread will descend into a steaming pile of shitpost before page 3.

 

[Fallensaint]

That depends on whether you believe in an objective morality or a relative one.

Many proponents of an objective morality argue that the only way truly objective moral values can exist is if assigned by a higher power.

A relative morality implies that societal and cultural norms define the morality of humanity and therefore religion has no bearing on the issue.

The entymology of the word "good" comes from "God" so religion and morality was at one stage at least a very strong relation but often people would argue that is no longer the case.

 

[Wildchild]

I think spiritually is related to morality, but not religion which can be related to spirituality, but not necessarily.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

That depends on whether you believe in an objective morality or a relative one.

Many proponents of an objective morality argue that the only way truly objective moral values can exist is if assigned by a higher power.

A relative morality implies that societal and cultural norms define the morality of humanity and therefore religion has no bearing on the issue.

There are several ethical realist theories that are not divine command theory such as utilitarianism and divine command theory is actually a variant of ethical subjectivism and thus relative

The etymology of the word "good" comes from "God" so religion and morality was at one stage at least a very strong relation but often people would argue that is no longer the case.

God:
From Middle English god, from Old English god ‎(“deity”) (akin to Old High German got (a rank of deity)), originally neuter, then changed to masculine to reflect the change in religion to Christianity, both from the Proto-Germanic *gudą (compare Dutch god, German Gott, Danish gud), from the Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰuto- ‎(“invoked (one)”), from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰewH- ‎(“to call, to invoke”) or *ǵʰew- ‎(“to pour”). Not related to the word good.

Good:
From Middle Englishgood, from Old Englishgōd ‎(“good, virtuous, desirable, favorable, salutary, pleasant, valid, efficient, suitable, considerable, sufficiently great”), from Proto-Germanic*gōdaz ‎(“good”), from Proto-Indo-European*gʰedʰ- ‎(“to unite, be associated, suit”). Cognate with Scotsguid ‎(“good”), West Frisiangoed ‎(“good”), Dutchgoed ‎(“good”), Low Germangod ‎(“good”), Germangut ‎(“good”), Danish and Swedishgod‎(“good”), Icelandicgóður ‎(“good”), Lithuanian guõdas ‎(“honor”), Albanian dial. hut ‎(“good, fit, appropriate”), Old Church Slavonic годъ ‎(godŭ, “pleasing time”) and годенъ ‎(godenŭ, “fitting, suitable”), Sanskritगद्य ‎(gádhya, “fitting, suitable”). Related to gather.

 

[caffeinated_wench]

I feel like religion is used to enforce morality, but then again every religion has its own idea of what's acceptable and what's not. I feel we can decide for ourselves what's moral and what's not even without religion since -- as pointed out -- you can have morals without being religious. It more or less hammers into your head that you shouldn't go around doing awful things or else you'll be punished for all of eternity, kinda adding to the laws already set in place to punish you if you steal or murder.

 

[TowinKarz]

Religion is a method to enforce morality, but not morality in and of itself. Same as laws, tools to enforce good behavior, but, not moral in-and-of themselves.

 

[NeverHappened]

Morality is passed through culture and religion just happens to be passed along with it. With Sunni Islam, the morality is greatly different in different with ethnic Kurds, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Indonesia. They go all over the place on positions of homosexuality, such as the Afgan practice of Bacha Bazi(pedophilic homosexuality mixed in with slavery) and executing gays in other country.

Calothics in America and other places have been historically more liberal than the Vatican likes them to be.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

I seriously doubt anybody is going to have the brass balls to argue that religion and morality are the same thing

 

[c-no]

Religion and morality vary. As some mentioned, morality itself is passed through culture and every religion has its own rules. One religion will find homosexuality to be immoral while another doesn't. Even then, not every moral person follows a religion and not every religious person is moral.

 

[QI 541]

They're the same thing, but only for religious people.

 

[BILLY MAYS]

I believe that they are strongly related, but not necessarily the same.

From what I saw, ancient civilizations are somewhat more religious and tied religion to morality tightly. Over time, as people begin to question the existence of a higher Creator, people start drifting away from religion, however the societal norms are still there, and this is what becomes the norm for morality.
Or I might be just talking out of my ass, YMMV.

 

[exball]

No, they're definitely seperate things. I believe they're deeply intertwined though. Your religious beliefs are going to affect what you consider right and wrong.

 

[BILLY MAYS]

True, true. I admit a religious bias is present in my opinion. I did say it's not necessarily the same, only related.

 

[Truant]

If culture is a road, then morality and religion are forks in that road. It's still the same road however, and the two forks will not stray too far from each other.

 

[NeverHappened]

If culture is a road, then morality and religion are forks in that road. It's still the same road however, and the two forks will not stray too far from each other.

If Christianity is a river, then morality is the little fishes, sometime ending up dead on the shores of time and sometimes being eaten by birds of progressiveness, but often pooped out in the form of amendments to the United State's Constitution due, while a kayak (which is organized religion) is missteered into white water rapids because someone's face was hit by the amendment, you lose your grandfather's watch, which doesn't matter because it'll end up in the ocean called Jesus.

QED.

 

[shadyreapers_]

Each religion has different moralities, for example , The Incas sacrificed people for their gods

 

[Rimanah]

Are they the same topic.

No. This can be shown simply by the fact I can create an agnostic moral system. By definition, a moral system is just a system which tell you what is good and bad/right and wrong.
You could theoretically create this just by saying “it is wrong to hurt anyone else, ever.” That’ is a moral system, even if it’s not going to stand up to scrutiny. And it does not rely upon religion. Thus, a moral system can exist independently of religion, so they by definition cannot be the same topic.

The more interesting question IMO is if a religion must have a moral system. I’m not sure. A lot will depend on how we define religion, and there unfortunately is a fair bit of room for disagreement here.
A dictionary definition is “the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods.” Going off that definition, I think it is certainly possible to create a religion with no morals. “I believe there is a God.” is technically a religion by that definition, and yet in no way touches on right and wrong.

Practically speaking however, the two are very closely bundled. Many moral systems will at some level rely upon some sort of belief in a supernatural being, even if it’s just an unmoved mover or some sort of Platonic Form of the Good.
Like wise, most religions will have some sort of moral system. Even expanding my basic religion outlined above to be “I believe there is a God, and the right thing to do is worship Them.” already introduces a basic moral system.

In conclusion, they are not the same, but will often be found intermingling.