The Orthodox refuge

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Skitarii dijo:
There is no schism and you're fighting a losing battle arguing for one. Both churches are in communion with the other churches, so either both have the grace of God or neither do.

Go be a contrarian elsewhere. I suggest the Man-Hate Thread or the V-Tuber forum. Those might be more your speed. :)
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Ngl. You are the first person to have given me any meaningful pushback on this. I wasn't aware I was being contrarian given the event is listed as the "2018 Moscow-Constantinople Schism."
You might have more context on this. But in brushing up on the situation it's come to my attention that the ROC subsequently ended communion with Athens, Alexandria, and Cyprus as well.
 
Penis Drager 2.0 dijo:
Ngl. You are the first person to have given me any meaningful pushback on this. I wasn't aware I was being contrarian given the event is listed as the "2018 Moscow-Constantinople Schism."
You might have more context on this. But in brushing up on the situation it's come to my attention that the ROC subsequently ended communion with Athens, Alexandria, and Cyprus as well.
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There is a difference between what a secular historian records as a schism and a proper schism. To a recordkeeper, the concepts of the grace of God and apostolic succession seem nebulous because they don't really believe in either, and creating a universally-accepted narrative of historical events matters more. A muslim can't convince me that his twelfth imam is immortal and hidden away in a cave because I don't believe in it; but to him, it is as real as the air he breathes.

Technically, only the clergy aren't allowed to commune in each other's churches, but this is purely politics and posturing. If both the Russian and Greek Churches claim to be in communion with my (Bulgarian) Church, and both Russians and Greeks can commune at my parish, then how can either church be in schism? That would be like if a catholic and a protestant both went to weekly friday prayers at a masjid and accused each other of being heretics.

Ziggers and gayreeks are also massive phyletists, and that's another story for another day.
 
Skitarii dijo:
To a recordkeeper, the concepts of the grace of God and apostolic succession seem nebulous because they don't really believe in either,
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Not to nitpick too hard, but Apostolic succession is far less "nebulous" in this sense. But in that regard even the Catholics (and, somewhat debatably, the Anglicans) maintain claim to it.

Skitarii dijo:
If both the Russian and Greek Churches claim to be in communion with my (Bulgarian) Church, and both Russians and Greeks can commune at my parish, then how can either church be in schism?
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That potentially gets into gripes regarding ecumenism, but at that point I'd be coming to bat for some extremely contrarian groups like the "True Orthodox" factions who there's potentially a much stronger case to accuse them of being the schismatics. As fun as that would be, I'm far too uneducated to try in good faith.

Skitarii dijo:
Ziggers and gayreeks are also massive phyletists, and that's another story for another day.
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Yeah. I understand people still argue whether the "phyletism" we see today is the same as that which was condemned in the 19th century.

Bear in mind my first post ITT was responding to a guy accusing this of being a thread about the "Russian bootlicker church."
 
Penis Drager 2.0 dijo:
That potentially gets into gripes regarding ecumenism, but at that point I'd be coming to bat for some extremely contrarian groups like the "True Orthodox" factions
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There's no ecumenist heresy in communion between two established Patriarchates within the Orthodox Church; that would be like seeing a Franciscan in a Benedictine-run parish and accusing him of ecumenism.

The reason why I used protestants and catholics going to a hypothetical masjid is because a clear separation can be drawn between all three religions. It would be ecumenist if Patriarch Kirill and Bartholomew suddenly announced they were both establishing communion with Theravada Buddhism.

"True Orthodox" (Greek Old Calendarists, "Genuine" Orthodox, etc) are universally in schism with every other church and accuse our clergy of being heretics. That's what true schism looks like.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug dijo:
Yeah, except the heartland of Orthodoxy is Greece…
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The Patriarch of Constaninople is almost 100% a CIA/turkish/nato asset. His intervention in the Ukraine was uncanonical and politically motivated and we are still suffering the consequences of it. Whatever your opinion on the war, it isn't Russia who caused discord in the Church.

Also Lol gayreeks stay losing. Though recently archbishop Elpidophoros has kissed Trump's ring and compared him to Constantine
 
Sargon's wife's son dijo:
Jay Dyer
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lol
lmao
I've only looked into that guy for less than 30 minutes because of another thread in this forum, but dude is unable to argue himself out of a paper bag
If you find that convincing, it must be because you already agree with him

But you run into the problem of pretty much every religion
Namely, how do you convince somebody who doesn't already agree with you?
Like, if you don't agree that 2+2 equals 4, it is feasible to point out the objective correctness of the claim, it is possible to prove it, it is possible to validate it, and every single deviation or alternative solution can be proven to be faulty, erroneous, fallacious, etc.
How do you want to accomplish that with religion, esp. religions like the Abrahamic religions which do not reject supernatural events?
 
Underperforming dijo:
Both the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch are of the opinion that unity is inevitable. Instead of tradcucking, we should be faithful to and hopeful that Christ's Church on Earth may be brought closer to that what we profess in the Creed (One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic). We should be praying for the intentions of our bishops and actually trying to build the Church.
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Wow it's hilarious no one takes the little old guy who gets appointed by sucking off the Turkish government seriously we haven't taken the ecumenical patriarch seriously since the fall of Constantinople because that's the last time we had a legitimate ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople.
The guy who's literally a globalist homosexual and the other guys a globalist homosexual.

It's the same reason I don't take anything the patriarch of Russia says seriously that guys literally a form of kgb agent who is just putains bumboy.
And yes I am allowed to legally insult them according to religious doctrine because again they are not infallible we don't believe such things in Orthodox
 
Sargon's wife's son dijo:
Wow it's hilarious no one takes the little old guy who gets appointed by sucking off the Turkish government seriously we haven't taken the ecumenical patriarch seriously since the fall of Constantinople because that's the last time we had a legitimate ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople.
The guy who's literally a globalist homosexual and the other guys a globalist homosexual.

It's the same reason I don't take anything the patriarch of Russia says seriously that guys literally a form of kgb agent who is just putains bumboy.
And yes I am allowed to legally insult them according to religious doctrine because again they are not infallible we don't believe such things in Orthodo
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Then I would hope you take your bishop seriously. I was unaware of the dismal situation in the ecclesiastical hierarchy.
 
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