Culture The Global Soda Tax Experiment

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The global soda tax experiment
Can these taxes really make a dent in obesity, diabetes, and other ailments?

GREG MILLER, KNOWABLE MAGAZINE - 12/29/2019, 12:30 PM
Can taxes really break our collective desire for sugary, syrupy soda?

Can taxes really break our collective desire for sugary, syrupy soda?

They’re cloyingly sweet, nutritionally empty—and, increasingly, subject to taxation. More than 35 countries and seven cities in the US—starting with Berkeley, California, in 2015—now impose a tax on soda and other sugar-sweetened beverages, and several more places are considering it.

Public health researchers and organizations such as the American Heart Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics see these taxes as low-hanging fruit in the battle against obesity and the health problems, such as diabetes, that often come with it. In the United States, nearly 40 percent of adults are obese, which adds $147 billion to the nation’s annual healthcare spending, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The problem is complex, but the widespread consumption of foods packed with added sugars—which add calories but no essential nutrients—plays a major role, and beverages account for nearly half the added sugar in the American diet.

“It’s really hard to shift these behaviors, and taxes are, if not the single most, one of the most impactful and important policies to move the needle on unhealthy eating habits,” says Christina Roberto, a behavioral scientist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. Taxes have helped to reduce the public health impact of alcohol and tobacco, and many public health researchers say there’s good reason to think they can mitigate the harms of sugary beverages, too.

At the same time, there are also reasons why soda taxes might not have the impact on public health that advocates hope for. The current taxes may be too low to affect purchasing behavior. People could switch to other unhealthy foods. Or, in some cases, they could simply buy their soda in a neighboring city that doesn’t tax them.

Definitive answers won’t come fast: Chronic conditions like obesity and diabetes take years to develop, and so, too, will any health benefits resulting from a new tax. But an emerging body of research suggests that beverage taxes have already reduced consumption of sugary drinks in some communities—an encouraging and essential step.

Taxing bad habits

The use of taxes to compel people to make healthier choices has a long history with tobacco and alcohol, which are taxed by nearly every country in the world.

“There’s decades of work now on tobacco, hundreds of studies from around the world, showing that if you raise prices you induce adults to quit smoking and prevent kids from taking it up,” says Frank Chaloupka, an economist at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Research has linked higher cigarette taxes to reduced mortality from throat and lung cancer and other respiratory diseases, Chaloupka and two coauthors wrote earlier this year in the Annual Review of Public Health.

Other studies have linked higher taxes to lower rates of hospitalization for heart failure and lessened severity of childhood asthma.

With alcohol, it’s more like dozens of studies, but the conclusions are similar, Chaloupka says: alcohol taxes have been linked to lower frequency and intensity of drinking and reductions in unhealthy consequences of alcohol abuse, from cirrhosis of the liver to motor vehicle injuries to alcohol-related violence. The higher the tax, as a rule, the greater the impact.

Sugary beverages may seem more innocuous than cigarettes and alcohol, but there’s strong evidence tying them to a host of chronic health problems, says Barry Popkin, an economist and nutrition researcher at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Sugary drinks cause sharper spikes in blood sugar than most types of food, studies find. Over time, they may be more apt to disrupt the body’s insulin regulation. And sugar dissolved in a drink doesn’t trigger the brain’s satiety mechanisms the same way that sugar in solid food does. As a result, “what we’ve learned in the last 20 years is that what you drink doesn’t affect what you eat,” Popkin says.

Those extra liquid calories (roughly 250 in a 20-ounce bottle of many popular sodas, or 10 percent of the recommended daily total for an adult male), add up. Studies by Popkin and others have linked habitual consumption of sweetened beverages to an elevated risk of weight gain, obesity, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and other health problems. A 2010 meta-analysis of previous studies that tracked a total of 310,819 participants, for example, found that people who drink one or more sugary drinks a day have a 26 percent higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes than those who drink no more than one sugary drink per month.

This research has focused on beverages containing calorie-adding sweeteners such as sucrose (table sugar) and high fructose corn syrup—not just sodas but also sports and energy drinks, fruit juices with added sugar, and sweetened coffee and teas. There’s less research, and more expert disagreement, on the health effects of pure fruit juices (which can contain as much sugar per serving as soda, but have vitamins and other nutrients, too) and beverages with artificial sweeteners that don’t add calories.

Sugary beverages certainly aren’t the only culprits. Sugary foods are, too, but they’re more difficult to define and regulate, says Kristine Madsen, a pediatrician and research scientist at the University of California, Berkeley School of Public Health. “If you start getting into foods that could be classified as junk food you get into huge debates,” she says. Take granola bars. Some are loaded with fat and sugar—essentially cookies masquerading as health foods. Others might be packed with nuts and dried fruit and contain little added sugar, making them legitimate sources of protein and dietary fiber. But a typical beverage with added sugar has no nutritional value, Madsen says. “There’s nothing it adds to someone’s diet that benefits them.”

One of many delightful images when you search for taxes in the Getty Image archives.
One of many delightful images when you search for "taxes" in the Getty Image archives.

The idea behind sugary-beverage taxes is rooted in basic economics: raising the price on a product tends to discourage people from buying it, especially if it’s not something they deem essential in the first place. One encouraging sign for soda taxes, Chaloupka says, is that economists find that the price elasticity for sugary beverages—that is, the degree to which people respond to price increases by reducing their purchases—is at least as great as it is for alcohol and tobacco.

In wealthier countries, that sugary-beverage price elasticity averages about -0.8, meaning that for every 10 percent increase in the price of soda, purchases decline by eight percent. (Price elasticity averages about -0.4 for tobacco and ranges between -0.5 and -0.8 for alcohol.) Not surprisingly, people with less money tend to be more sensitive to price increases, and research in lower-income countries and communities reports even higher price elasticity, so that a 10 percent price increase results in more than a 10 percent reduction in purchases.

Public health researchers and economists bored into this data and more at a 2015 meeting convened by the World Health Organization to review soda tax research and make recommendations. Along with price elasticity, the experts considered actual purchase data—what little was available at the time—from countries where taxes had been implemented, along with a small number of computer modeling studies estimating how calories saved from reduced soda consumption might translate to reduced risk of obesity and diabetes. The WHO’s resulting report acknowledges the need for more research, but it concludes that taxes of 20 to 50 percent are most likely to be effective, based on the available evidence.

That’s in the same ballpark as existing taxes on alcohol and tobacco, note Chaloupka and colleagues. Alcohol taxes range from 0.3 percent in Kyrgyzstan to 44.9 percent in Norway, with an average of 17 percent worldwide. Tobacco taxes average 48 percent in high-income countries and 32 percent in low- and middle-income countries.

Only a few countries have levied beverage taxes at the higher end of the WHO’s recommended range: Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates levy a 50 percent tax on sweetened beverages, for example, and a 100 percent tax on energy drinks. (The goal in Saudi Arabia was raising revenue, not improving public health.) In other places it’s more complicated.

A few countries, including the United Kingdom and South Africa, have implemented tiered or graded beverage taxes that increase with sugar content. In the UK, where the nationwide tax went into effect in April 2018, several beverage manufacturers responded by reformulating their drinks to contain less sugar (adding artificial sweeteners, at least in some cases), thereby avoiding the highest tax rate. (Coca-Cola refused, deciding instead to reduce serving size and pass some of the tax to consumers.) The impact on sales, not to mention public health, remains to be seen.

In the US, beverage taxes range from 1 to 2 cents an ounce. Structuring a tax this way makes it easy to implement, but it means that the percentage of the price increase varies for different products

Researchers who support the taxes acknowledge that such small price increases are unlikely to dissuade occasional soda drinkers, but those aren’t the people at greatest risk. The hope is that taxes will make a dent in consumption by people with more serious habits—such as the five percent of Americans who report drinking roughly 600 calories worth of sugary beverages (more than four 12-oz cans) on any given day.

Soda studies

One of the best-studied taxes is in Mexico, which in January 2014 became the first country in the Americas to implement a significant sugary-beverage tax. Like many middle-income countries, Mexico has seen the health risks associated with overconsumption surpass the health risks of undernutrition. Roughly two-thirds of Mexicans are overweight or obese, and diabetes has become the country’s leading cause of death and disability.

The Mexican tax adds one peso per liter to the price of all beverages with added sugar. That typically works out to about 10 percent, says Arantxa Colchero, a health economist at the National Institute of Public Health in Cuernavaca, which has studied the tax. Drinks with artificial sweeteners are excluded, as are pure milk and fruit juices, but unlike many places, Mexico taxes milk and yogurt drinks with added sugar. (Elsewhere, policymakers have decided that the benefits of getting children to drink milk outweigh the downsides of added sugar in beverages like chocolate milk—a point of debate among public health researchers.)

To assess sugary-beverage purchases before and after the tax, Colchero and colleagues used a nationwide survey of more than 75,000 Mexican households.

According to their analyses, purchases dropped six percent in the tax’s first year, and more in households that were low-income, had children, or were heavy consumers to begin with. Bottled water purchases, on the other hand, increased 16 percent—an encouraging sign, Colchero says, that people were switching to a healthier alternative. A follow-up study using additional data found similar effects and suggested that the drop in sugary-beverage sales grew to nearly 10 percent in the second year of the tax.

Can such modest decreases translate to better health? Computer modeling studies based on the Mexican purchase data suggest that they could. In one study, researchers used a simulation to predict the prevalence of cardiovascular disease and related conditions. The model was developed using the Framingham Heart Study in the US, which uses public health data on age, sex, smoking, body mass index and more to predict cardiovascular health trends, but the scientists plugged in Mexican public health data wherever available.

That study predicted 189,300 fewer new cases of type 2 diabetes and 20,400 fewer heart attacks and strokes over a 10-year period, assuming a sustained 10 percent decrease in sugary-beverage consumption in Mexico (and estimating that people would make up 39 percent of those lost calories elsewhere in their diets). “The impacts would be much higher if the tax was 20 percent,” says Colchero, who was not part of that study but collaborated on another study that also predicted substantial reductions in diabetes resulting from the tax.

The second modeling study also estimated the impact of the tax on Mexico’s obesity rate by converting numbers on reduced soda purchasing to calories saved and using a computer model to predict changes in body mass index. After 10 years with the current tax, the scientists predicted that Mexico’s obesity rate would drop 2.5 percent, potentially corresponding to several million fewer obese people.

Both modeling studies suggested that doubling the tax would roughly double the public health benefits. The Mexican legislature is considering legislation that would do that.

In Berkeley, which implemented a penny-per-ounce tax on sweetened beverages in 2015—the first such tax in the US—researchers have also seen reduced beverage purchases. One study examined millions of checkout scanner transactions for two supermarket chains in the area and found a 10 percent drop in sales of the taxed beverages. Sales of bottled water, which isn’t taxed, rose 16 percent during the same time period; sales of untaxed vegetable, fruit and tea drinks rose four percent.

A recent study from Philadelphia found an even greater reduction in sugary-beverage sales. That city’s beverage tax went into effect in January 2017—to evaluate it, behavioral scientist Roberto and colleagues used a dataset of sales at supermarkets, pharmacies and big-box stores like Walmart. Sales of sweetened beverages dropped 51 percent the year after the tax was implemented, the team reported in May in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Sales in Baltimore, a nearby city with similar demographics and no beverage tax, remained flat during the same period, suggesting that the tax was responsible for the drop, as opposed to some regional trend or societal shift.

About a quarter of that decline was offset by an increase in sales in three surrounding zip codes, suggesting that some people were willing to drive across the city line to get their soda, or at least pick some up when they were passing through. But even factoring in that cross-border shopping, Philadelphia has seen a 38 percent decline in the purchase of sweetened beverages, the researchers conclude. That’s equivalent to an annual reduction of 78 million 12-ounce cans of sugary drinks, or 49 cans per person in a city of 1.6 million.

Several factors could account for the larger drop in sales in Philadelphia compared with Berkeley, Madsen says. Philadelphia’s tax is greater (1.5 cents per ounce, versus 1 cent per ounce in Berkeley) and its population is poorer, on average, and so might have felt more of a pinch from the price increase. In addition, Berkeley residents drank relatively little soda to begin with. “It is harder to see a large drop in sales if you start with low baseline sales,” Madsen says.

Other researchers also have found evidence that Philadelphia’s beverage tax is changing consumer behavior. “All these studies use different datasets, but the nice thing is we’re getting some confirmation,” says John Cawley, an economist at Cornell University. Cawley and colleagues surveyed hundreds of Philadelphians before and after the tax was implemented, initially approaching people as they exited stores to ask about their purchases, then following up by phone with more detailed questions.

Adults who participated in the study reported drinking about 10 fewer sodas a month after the tax, amounting to a reduction of about 31 percent, according to a study recently published by Cawley and colleagues in the Journal of Health Economics. The study also provides the first data on how beverage taxes affect children, Cawley says. The Philadelphia tax did not reduce soda consumption by children as a whole, the researchers found, but it did reduce consumption among those who were frequent soda drinkers to begin with.

Healthy outlook?

Despite the growing evidence that beverage taxes reduce sales, there is so far no direct evidence that the taxes have the intended health effects. Gathering such evidence won’t be easy. Ideally, researchers would like to monitor the health of a representative group of people before and after the tax, says Lisa Powell, a health economist at the University of Illinois, Chicago. “You need to plan those studies and recruit people well in advance of the tax and track them over time, which is extremely expensive to do,” she says. So far this has not been done, although Roberto has applied for funding for a study that would use electronic health records for thousands of patients in the University of Pennsylvania hospital system to look for changes in body mass index, and possibly indicators of diabetes, before and after the enactment of the Philadelphia soda tax.

The alternative, looking for changes in the overall population—say, in the prevalence of obesity or diabetes—requires more data and more sophisticated statistics. Powell and other researchers suggest that 10 years would be a reasonable time frame to expect to see a payoff in reduced rates of diabetes and cardiovascular disease. That’s about how long it took for lung cancer rates to drop after states started implementing tobacco taxes, Popkin says. “We didn’t have the hard biological health outcomes for a long time,” he says.

A video by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (NYC Health) warns people to avoid sugary drinks. The video ad is part of NYC Health’s “The Sour Side of Sweet” campaign, launched in 2017.

In the meantime, the taxes are raising significant revenue. The seven US cities with beverage taxes currently raise a total of $133 million per year. Although not all of those taxes were passed as public health measures, most of the revenue goes to improve community welfare in some way. Exactly where the money goes depends on local politics and perceived needs in the community. In Philadelphia, for example, the tax was passed as a means to raise money to expand early childhood education. In Berkeley, the money has gone to local organizations that promote nutritional education and exercise, including the Edible Schoolyard project initiated by restaurateur Alice Waters to build kitchen gardens at middle schools to teach children about food and nutrition.

In Seattle, which implemented a 1.75-cent-per-ounce soda tax in 2018, the revenue has been used for a variety of programs aimed at improving health equality, such as subsidizing fruit and vegetable purchases for low-income people, says Jim Krieger, a former chief of chronic disease prevention for the city and executive director of Healthy Food America, a research and education nonprofit. Partly as a result of targeted marketing by beverage companies, Krieger says, low-income communities have higher rates of sugary-beverage consumption and higher rates of disease associated with those drinks. “The tax revenue is being invested where it will do the most good in relation to the harms being caused by the sugary drinks.”

Culture shift

The beverage industry is strongly opposed to these taxes. In 2016, it spent $30 million in California alone to oppose new ballot measures to impose beverage taxes in Oakland and San Francisco (both passed). Industry-funded ads present the taxes as attacks on consumer freedom, unfairly burdensome to low-income people, and bad for employment and the overall economy. Studies by independent researchers in Philadelphia and Mexico have found little or no evidence for negative economic impacts.

The industry has lobbied effectively for state laws banning new local beverage taxes. Michigan passed the country’s first such law in 2017; Arizona, California, and Washington followed suit in 2018. The California law leaves in place the existing beverage taxes in Berkeley, Oakland, Albany, and San Francisco, but it upended plans to put soda taxes on the ballot in at least two other cities, Santa Cruz and Richmond. In the face of industry opposition, the California legislature in April shelved discussions of a bill that would impose a statewide beverage tax.

The beverage industry has campaigned hard against sugary-beverage taxes. In this 2010 ad by Americans Against Food Taxes, a group that is funded by the food and beverage industry, a woman in a grocery store decries the government “trying to control what we eat and drink with taxes.”

If the goal is improving public health, taxes that cover a larger geographic area would be advantageous, Cawley and colleagues write in a recent paper in the Annual Review of Nutrition. “Optimally, this would be something that’s happening not at the city level but at the state or national level, so that there’s less incentive to just drive a mile or two to evade the tax,” Cawley says.

Public health researchers who advocate for the taxes see them as just one part of a larger strategy to tackle obesity and diabetes. Several countries are trying a more comprehensive policy approach. In Chile, which has the highest obesity rate in Latin America and has led the world in sugary-beverage sales per capita in recent years, lawmakers have passed a suite of policies since 2012 that include a small sugar-sweetened-beverage tax, warning labels on foods with high levels of added sugar (similar to the labels on cigarette cartons warning of the health risks of smoking), bans on sugary beverages in schools, and limits on marketing foods and beverages with added sugar to children. “The more comprehensive you can make the laws, the bigger health effect you’re going to have,” says Popkin, who has advised the Chilean government on these policies.

But in addition to new policies, what has to happen is a cultural shift, says Laura Schmidt, public health researcher at the University of California, San Francisco. “With tobacco, the number one thing that made the difference was norms,” she says. “The policies and the debate and the education campaigns made smoking unpopular.”

Countermarketing—media campaigns that undermined tobacco company advertising by pointing to negative health effects or industry manipulation of consumers—may have played a role as well. It’s a strategy already being tried with sugary beverages, for example with the “Berkeley vs. Big Soda” campaign launched in 2014 to counter industry-funded ads trying to prevent voters from approving the tax there, and New York City’s “Pouring on the Pounds” campaign, which emphasized the connection between sugary beverages and weight gain (one ad, for example, showed a man opening a soda can and pouring out chunky, gelatinous fat).

Cultural changes may be underway in the US, where consumption of added-sugar beverages has been declining steadily since the early 2000s. One study, based on nationally representative data from the CDC, found that the proportion of American adults who reported drinking at least one sugary beverage a day dropped from 62 percent to 50 percent between 2003 and 2014 (and from 80 percent to 61 percent for children).

With additional nudges from soda taxes and other policies, advocates say, that decline could develop into significant health benefits in the years ahead. And as public perception shifts, lawmakers will feel emboldened to pass more aggressive policies, Schmidt says. “It’s a virtuous cycle.”

Greg Miller is a science journalist based in Portland, Oregon. This article originally appeared in Knowable Magazine, an independent journalistic endeavor from Annual Reviews. Sign up for the newsletter.
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obesity is a HUGE public health issue and a tax on liquid sugar beats a future where half the population is incapacitated due to diabetes.

food corps spend millions trying to make junk food as addictive as possible. the result is a lot of human misery to make a few very rich.

Close to half of U.S. population projected to have obesity by 2030



Your "sins" are killing you and costing you a fortune. Take comfort in a cup of tea instead.
I disagree, If you are going to do this you have to just go for the jugular and just tax being Obese, anything else is just a half-measure; Moreover I don't see any point in punishing someone healthy who just wants to drink a Soda every now and then.

Also ban HFCS.
 
im talking about the last 30 years and you bring up centuries. dumbass

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It's true of the past few decades as well. People have more money to spend on food, generally. I only brought it into the perspective of centuries because you didn't use a specific timetable in the post I quoted.

Also, the phrase "not an argument" isn't an argument.
 
Personally I wish EBT and food stamps in America didn't allow people to buy convenience store food such as soda chips (candy) and other nutritionally deficient food tax free. Not only do you get the can redemption but they don't have to pay a sales tax. It's not uncommon at the local grocery stores to see these welfare recipients loading up their carts with cases upon cases of sodas. There is an initiative now at some grocery stores to give produce bucks. It's where match a dollar-for-dollar up to $10 in fresh produce and vegetables.
We get taxed for snack food stuff in Canada, though it's the usual sales tax. And for some reason, fast food is more expensive than it is in America.

Still doesn't help that the healthy stuff isn't any cheaper.
 
We get taxed for snack food stuff in Canada, though it's the usual sales tax. And for some reason, fast food is more expensive than it is in America.

Still doesn't help that the healthy stuff isn't any cheaper.
I agree the healthy stuff isn't any cheaper however here in America. You can use your food stamps to get tax-free snack Food. Even energy drinks at aren't off the table that was my point people with food stamps shouldn't be allowed buy non nutritional food especially not in large quantities. The point of food stamps is so you can feed yourself or your family. Not so they can enjoy as much free soda and junk-food as possible. Buying chips candy soda energy drinks and other things that do not provide nutritional value to your family should be considered welfare fraud.
 
Also ban HFCS.
but that would work and not put more money into the hands of politicians.

Yes because it's necessary to throw a tantrum if anyone disagrees with you over a soda tax. Stay euphoric dude.
You beeing stupid makes people mad, not a soda tax.


It's true of the past few decades as well. People have more money to spend on food, generally. I only brought it into the perspective of centuries because you didn't use a specific timetable in the post I quoted.
that chart is useless, mexicans dont show up in such charts, but they show up in health surveys.

Also, the phrase "not an argument" isn't an argument.
It makes you look realy stupid if you use it against valid arguments you dont like.
the worst kind of that BS are people who cry about name calling and talk about ad hominems.
 
I explained why in the last 10 or so posts I've made itt. Kiwis are naturally occurring fruits with nutritional value.
But the intellectuals in here have chosen to ignore everything I've said because scoring cheap gotcha points is easier for like farming.

Eh, I can understand not taxing fruits because they have nutritional value and the sugar in fruit is naturally occurring.

But why only tax soda specifically?

I personally disagree with sin taxes of any kind, but I can at least follow the logic of taxing all sugary drinks (soda, energy drinks, sweet tea, juice, lemonade, etc.) whereas singling out soda and ignoring all the other sweet drinks is going to do nothing to solve the problem.
 
Soda isnt Sugar, its HFCS. normal Sugar is only problematic because its energie rich, HFCS will make you sick pretty fast since our body is not made for that amount of fructose without other sugars to regulate.

I would say that the studies are at best inconclusive over exactly how much worse for the human metabolism HFCS is - it certainly has some downsides, but the severity of it's supposed malignancy, as far as I've seen from credible medical organizations, is overstated. That said, I'm 100% on board with trying to reduce it's usage - it's in fucking *everything* these days. It's scary the places it turns up you would expect any sugar at all to be. It's like they've got some sort of bet going on just how much of it they can force us to eat.

Oh, and incidentally. Sucrose (normal sugar) is 50/50 glucose/fructose. HFCS is generally 55/41/4 fructose/glucose/maltose. Not that imbalanced. It's not pure fructose, I don't know where that idea got started.

But you don't need to use HFCS to make soda, either. The root beer I buy (I drink diet soda, normally, but when I want root beer, I buy the real thing) uses cane sugar. Many of the smaller brands do, and Coke does in some places, dunno about Pepsi.
 
Última edición:
I would say that the studies are at best inconclusive over exactly how much worse for the human metabolism HFCS is - it certainly has some downsides, but the severity of it's supposed malignancy, as far as I've seen from credible medical organizations, is overstated.

But you don't need to use HFCS to make soda, either. The root beer I buy (I drink diet soda, normally, but when I want root beer, I buy the real thing) uses cane sugar. Many of the smaller brands do, and Coke does in some places, dunno about Pepsi.

Pepsi did have the "Throwback" versions of Pepsi and Mountain Dew that used cane sugar and came in 1950's styled packaging, but they recently discontinued Mountain Dew Throwback on the national level (it might still be regionally available) and I'm not sure about Pepsi.
 
This ain't about food. It's about scaring people into pay more taxes disguised as a fee.
 
If this was really about getting people to cut back on soda consumption for health reasons, and not a cash grab, wouldn't it make more sense to ban or heavily regulate advertising for these products, like they did with cigarettes?
 
If this was really about getting people to cut back on soda consumption for health reasons, and not a cash grab, wouldn't it make more sense to ban or heavily regulate advertising for these products, like they did with cigarettes?
They should put horror images on soda like they did with cigarettes in Europe.
Imagine the most Islamic photos of fat people KF can provide covering every single bottle on the shelves in your grocery store.
 
Eh, I can understand not taxing fruits because they have nutritional value and the sugar in fruit is naturally occurring.

But why only tax soda specifically?

I personally disagree with sin taxes of any kind, but I can at least follow the logic of taxing all sugary drinks (soda, energy drinks, sweet tea, juice, lemonade, etc.) whereas singling out soda and ignoring all the other sweet drinks is going to do nothing to solve the problem.

This. If you're going to tax sodas, you might as well go after the concentrated sugar delivery systems sold out of places like Starbucks. A grande gingerbread frapp has like 70 grams of sugar, almost twice as much as a can of coke.
 
I explained why in the last 10 or so posts I've made itt. Kiwis are naturally occurring fruits with nutritional value.
But the intellectuals in here have chosen to ignore everything I've said because scoring cheap gotcha points is easier for like farming.
Your looking at this from the wrong perspective, if big brother can tax food because it has deemed "unhealthy" it won't stop at soda. as was mentioned earlier in this thread its not hyperbolic to say that other foods will also get taxed. Remember politicians love knee-jerk reactions partly because it gives them votes and partly because they're not that intelligent, when obesity rates continue to rise after soda is taxed or even banned they'll find another scapegoat, and then another, and then another.

While I agree that soda is Very unhealthy for you taxing it won't help much, a fat fuck who wants a soda now will just pay the extra $.50.
 
Here are some ideas:

Tax obesity and give tax breaks for improving one's health.
Give fines to media outlets/organizations/companies who promote things like "fat acceptance" or "healthy at any size".
Take away children from parents who feed them nothing but junk food.

All of these would work better than the soda tax.
 
Here are some ideas:

Tax obesity and give tax breaks for improving one's health.
Give fines to media outlets/organizations/companies who promote things like "fat acceptance" or "healthy at any size".
Take away children from parents who feed them nothing but junk food.

All of these would work better than the soda tax.
First one promotes a massive amount of overreach in the system and shouldn't happen. Second one won't happen since Dems won't allow their defenders to be touched. Third one shouldn't happen as a CPS that can do that is far too strong - how would someone find that out? I personally like EBT not being able to buy junk food and soda as that's something the government can easily control without putting much overreach into the system.
 
Of course I think someone can do that, I just think it's unlikely and that whatever idiot does propose that should be shouted down. It's a slippery slope fallacy. The government has the authority to do a lot of awful things via loopholes yet they somehow manage not to on so many issues. Never mind that the Supreme Court can overturn itself on any ruling defining our Constitutional rights and put it in the same bin as Dred Scott or even allow a state to violate those rights simply by not hearing the case. No point operating in hypotheticals until they come up, just like how "troons in the classroom telling kids to take hormones" was not an argument against gay marriage.
It's not a hypothetical though, the power to tax something is the power to destroy it and we already have soycucks wanting us to live in fucking pods and eat goddamn bugs. The government having the authority to do things that they shouldn't have through various underhanded means is a bad thing that should be opposed, as is the Supreme Court legislating from the bench on various topics.

Teach certain communities to not act like spastics around the police and train the police not to be violent brutes, problem 99% solved.
Dude, if it was that easy, it would have been done already.

You might know better, but most people don't, so you have to pay for them for the sake of keeping society functioning (as you would anyway). The strong should protect the weak, and in this case its a government interested in its economic well-being (and ideally its citizens as the root of the nation) versus greedy multinationals and other big business interested in keeping people sick and weak and degenerate.
So we come back to the whole argument about taxes and the nanny state again, and my objections are the same. Any supposed savings in taxes would be trivial at best compared to the bloated federal budget and most likely never materialize at all because the government loves wasting money, and if other people want to make unhealthy diet choices that is their business. Big business wants to make money, they aren't actually interested in making people sick or weak. Complaining about "muh degeneracy" is /pol/ bullshit and really fucking hilarious coming from someone named "Save the Loli" with an example of something /pol/ would call degenerate as their avatar.


Personal responsibility is mostly a myth when society shapes the individual and not the other way around. This has been known since the early 20th century thanks to studies on propaganda and PR which are shown to work because how they exploit human psychology. Powerful corporations and organizations (including political parties) feed us almost everything and tell us how independent we're being by consuming. Only the powerful can truly have personal responsibility in this world, the weak are nothing but their playthings in some or all matters.
Personal responsibility is not actually a myth, the existence of propaganda and PR does not mean that people are not making individual choices to believe their bullshit. That people can be manipulated does not mean that all people will be, if you don't like it when people fall for blatant bullshit from a politician or a company, teach them how to see through that bullshit instead of trying to protect them from themselves.
 
This. If you're going to tax sodas, you might as well go after the concentrated sugar delivery systems sold out of places like Starbucks. A grande gingerbread frapp has like 70 grams of sugar, almost twice as much as a can of coke.

My understanding is that a lot of so-called healthy stuff like fruit and kale smoothies tend to have a ton of sugar in them to make them palatable. Watch the idea of them getting taxed get stopped stone cold.
 
The root beer I buy (I drink diet soda, normally, but when I want root beer, I buy the real thing) uses cane sugar. Many of the smaller brands do, and Coke does in some places, dunno about Pepsi.
Diet Soda is even worse! some of the sweetener they use are normaly used to get pigs fat.

I drink low sugar soda, its alot more refreshing if its not sweet.
 
Diet Soda is even worse! some of the sweetener they use are normaly used to get pigs fat.

I've heard that once or twice before and never managed to dig up any actual conclusive evidence that it's true, just circular report chains that never lead anywhere. From what I understand of the science, the only connection between artificial sweeteners and weight gain is essentially a mental one - you eat something sweet, it makes you want to eat more food in general. Which matches up with the only thing I've ever managed to turn up with regards to any actual, factual basis for the claim - basically, because artificial sweeteners tend to be sweeter per unit volume than actual sugars, and don't have the massive, direct metabolic effects of a massive dose of sugar, they add them to animal feed to induce the animal to eat more, not that the sweetener itself is contributing to their weight gain.

I'm not sure that qualifies as "even worse".

In humans you could cause the same thing by just making them watch The Cooking Channel two hours a day.
 
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