Business Tesla Prepares For New Mass-Market EV Codenamed "Redwood" - Reuters exclusive with ZH commentary


Tesla (TSLA.O) has told suppliers it wants to start production of a new mass market electric vehicle codenamed "Redwood" in mid-2025, according to four people familiar with the matter, with two of them describing the model as a compact crossover.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has long whetted fans' and investors' appetites for affordable electric vehicles and self-driving robotaxis that are expected to be made on next-generation, cheaper electric car platforms.

Those models, including an entry-level $25,000 car, would allow it to compete with cheaper gasoline-powered cars and a growing number of inexpensive EVs, such as those made by China's BYD (002594.SZ).

BYD overtook Tesla as the world's top EV maker in the final quarter of 2023.

Musk had first promised to build a $25,000 car in 2020, a plan he later shelved and then revived. Tesla's cheapest offering, the Model 3 sedan, currently has a starting price of $38,990 in the United States.

Musk said last year he was concerned about the impact of high interest rates on consumer demand for big-ticket items like cars.

Tesla sent "requests for quotes," or invitation for bids for the "Redwood" model, to suppliers last year, and forecast weekly production volume of 10,000 vehicles, two of the sources said.

Production would begin in June 2025, three of the sources said. All spoke on condition of anonymity because the matter is confidential.

Tesla did not respond to a request for comment.

Timing of next-generation compact vehicles was one of the most voted questions by investors to Tesla ahead of its quarterly results report on Wednesday afternoon, where it is expected to forecast a 21% rise in 2024 deliveries, well below the long-term annual target of 50% that Musk set about three years ago.

Musk said in May that Tesla was working on two new products, with the potential for combined sales of 5 million vehicles a year. "Both the design of the products and manufacturing techniques are head and shoulders above anything else that is present in the industry," he said at Tesla's annual shareholder meeting.

Tesla plans to make an inexpensive robotaxi and an entry-level, $25,000 electric car based on the same vehicle architecture, according to Walter Isaacson's biography of Musk released in September, which includes interviews with the CEO and executives.

Musk said in 2022 that Tesla would make a dedicated self-driving taxi with a futuristic look in 2024, after several misses at its goal of achieving full self-driving capability.

He and other Tesla executives laid out plans last March to halve the cost of its next-generation vehicles, but did not provide a timeframe for the launches.

STUDYING A HONDA CIVIC​

Tesla has a track record of missing its targets for launches and pricing, and it would take time to build volume.

Cybertruck production, for instance, has been delayed and slow to accelerate and its $60,990 U.S. starting price is 50% higher than Musk touted in 2019.

"They have been overly optimistic on most of their new product launches. Volume output is more likely to begin in 2026," one of the sources said.

Musk said last year the affordable model would initially be built at Tesla's factory in Texas.

Making a profit from the cheaper EVs will be challenging, given the costs of batteries as well as traditional difficulties producing quality inexpensive vehicles.

Tesla in recent years tore down a Honda (7267.T) Civic, whose price starts at $23,950 in the United States, to study how to make cheaper cars, two separate sources said.

The next-generation Tesla architecture, internally called "NV9X," will include two or more models, said the two people and one of the initial sources.

Tesla also plans to build cheaper cars at its factory near Berlin, and is interested in building a factory in India to produce less expensive electric cars, sources said previously.

The EV maker also has factories in Shanghai and in Fremont, California.

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At the opening of the US cash market, Tesla shares were marginally higher following a Reuters report that the company is in talks with suppliers regarding a mass-market electric vehicle, codenamed "Redwood," set for a mid-2025 release.

Sources familiar with the new mass-market EV said it's described as a "compact crossover" and will compete with cheaper petrol-powered cars and inexpensive Chinese EVs, such as those made by BYD.

Tesla founder Elon Musk has teased over the years with a $25,000 mass-market model. At the moment, the cheapest offering by Tesla is the base Model 3 sedan, starting at $38,990 in the US.

Sources said Tesla engineers sent "requests for quotes" to suppliers for the Redwood last year. One weekly forecast shows production volumes of upwards of 10,000 vehicles per week. They noted production would begin as soon as June 2025.

Timing of the mass market EV comes as BYD displaced Tesla as the world's biggest maker of EVs in the fourth quarter.

Sales of overall EVs are sliding due to elevated interest rates. Also, prices of used Teslas are plunging.

Tesla is scheduled to report fourth-quarter earnings after hours today. Earnings estimates point to $25.8 billion in revenue and an Earnings Per Share of $0.74. Tesla's gross margin rate is projected to be 18.1%, compared to 17.9% in the third quarter and 16.0% in the same period last year. The company's free cash flow for the quarter is expected to be around $1.45 billion.

Ahead of earnings, Adam Sarhan, founder and CEO of 50 Park Investments, told Bloomberg:

"Tesla investors are looking for a bullish catalyst, but there isn't one in sight.

"Investors are going to pay these multiples for earnings for only so long, and if the fundamental story changes and earnings get compressed, then valuation gets compressed."
The mass market electric vehicle might be the bullish catalyst for the market.
 
Great timing. EV sales are down across the board, car companies cutting EV manufacturing due to poor future prospects, Toyota CEO claims EVs are nothing but toys and hydrogen is the future, and suddenly here comes Elon with another battery-powered gigaturd.
 
I just rented a prius for two weeks while my own car was in the shop. It was 2017 and i think only has a 10 gallon tank. I filled up last night and it only cost me $20. Mind you, I live in Texas so gas is cheap. But it gets great MPG. I would only trust Toyota or another Japanese brand to get EVs / alt fuel cars right.
 
Wasn’t the Model S or 3 supposed to be the “affordable” one? That was why people were throwing money at them for “down payments” years before any were even made?
 
Toyota CEO claims EVs are nothing but toys and hydrogen is the future,
Toyota has been claiming this for what, more than 20 years? Hydrogen is a pipe dream that Toyota invested crazy amounts of research effort into and they're desperate for it not to go to waste.
I just rented a prius for two weeks while my own car was in the shop. It was 2017 and i think only has a 10 gallon tank. I filled up last night and it only cost me $20. Mind you, I live in Texas so gas is cheap. But it gets great MPG. I would only trust Toyota or another Japanese brand to get EVs / alt fuel cars right.
The Priuses are great cars and make more sense than an EV for most people. I always thought the Chevy Volt should have been the model for cars going forward, but no one seemed interested in that.

Gas-Electric was perfect. Enough battery power for 95% of the average person's daily driving, but a gas generator for when longer trips needed to be done.
 
Toyota has been claiming this for what, more than 20 years? Hydrogen is a pipe dream that Toyota invested crazy amounts of research effort into and they're desperate for it not to go to waste.
Except they're absolutely right, it can be done. It SHOULD be done. Hydrogen should've been the future almost 80 years ago. If it weren't for the guy who invented it getting black vanned, we'd be in a different world now.
 
Except they're absolutely right, it can be done. It SHOULD be done. Hydrogen should've been the future almost 80 years ago. If it weren't for the guy who invented it getting black vanned, we'd be in a different world now.
And every power plant should be nuclear, but sometimes the future has other plans. Hydrogen is a dead technology as far as cars go at this point and as nice as it would be, it's not going to happen within our lives.
 
Toyota has been claiming this for what, more than 20 years? Hydrogen is a pipe dream that Toyota invested crazy amounts of research effort into and they're desperate for it not to go to waste.
Meanwhile battery-powered EVs have existed since the dawn of the automobile, predating internal combustion engines, and are still just expensive toys for retards.

Hydrogen is the most abundant energy source in the universe and only a cretin would think it's dead end tech.
 
The problem with hydrogen cars is both storage, and the fact producing hydrogen is not really economically viable and leads to it being more expensive than gas.

Fun fact: you can literally run old carburetor cars with hydrogen if you hook them up with the tanks.
 
Great timing. EV sales are down across the board, car companies cutting EV manufacturing due to poor future prospects, Toyota CEO claims EVs are nothing but toys and hydrogen is the future, and suddenly here comes Elon with another battery-powered gigaturd.
hydrogen is great as a fuel, but it's an absolute pain to handle when it comes to storage and distribution
a flammable/explosive gas that is kept at ultra high pressure is always nasty to deal with, add to that hydrogens annoying habit of seeping straight through the container material due to its tiny molecular size and its shitty energy density (way lower than hydrocarbons like petroleum) and you're looking at an absolute mess

setting up proper infrastructrue for EVs (chargers) is already a huge problem, but setting up that kind of infrastructure for hydrogen fuel distribution would be an even bigger problem
 
This has been well known, the model 2 will be built in the giga mexico factory they're planning to build and it'll cost around 25k. Teslas margins are pretty high so I don't think that they will have trouble getting a profit from this car
 
hydrogen is great as a fuel, but it's an absolute pain to handle when it comes to storage and distribution
a flammable/explosive gas that is kept at ultra high pressure is always nasty to deal with, add to that hydrogens annoying habit of seeping straight through the container material due to its tiny molecular size and its shitty energy density (way lower than hydrocarbons like petroleum) and you're looking at an absolute mess

setting up proper infrastructrue for EVs (chargers) is already a huge problem, but setting up that kind of infrastructure for hydrogen fuel distribution would be an even bigger problem
Yes, there are still some issues with storage, but hydrogen's energy density is still way better than current day batteries. The infrastructure for hydrogen can be much simpler because there is no need to truck it all over, you can have "gas stations" generate it on demand from distilled water and electricity. Slap some solar panels or whatever kind of other renewable electricity generator (wind, hydro, etc) on that bitch, connect it to a well, and you're generating hydrogen off the grid.
 
Hydrogen is the most abundant energy source in the universe and only a cretin would think it's dead end tech.
It's not a dead tech because it doesn't work, it's dead because no one cares about it. There's no political incentive to push it, few companies want anything to do with it (Toyota being a very notable exception), activists don't think it goes far enough, etc, etc.

Nuclear is the best we have in terms of power generation too, but being better or even the best doesn't actually mean much in the real world, there's a lot of other factors at play.
Meanwhile battery-powered EVs have existed since the dawn of the automobile, predating internal combustion engines, and are still just expensive toys for retards.
I'm not clear why you're being so hostile about this. Saying that hydrogen is a non-starter doesn't mean I think BEVs are practical either.

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It's not a dead tech because it doesn't work, it's dead because no one cares about it. There's no political incentive to push it, few companies want anything to do with it (Toyota being a very notable exception), activists don't think it goes far enough, etc, etc.
Toyota, Honda, BMW, Hyundai are all working on hydrogen tech right now, some already have hydrogen vehicles on the market. That's just major automakers, there's also a shitton of startups like Nikola. Just because you haven't been paying attention doesn't mean no one cares about it.

As for politicians and activists, well, they'll have to face reality sooner or later. Not expecting any them to be looking towards the future, most are rather backwards and are more concerned with shilling than actual progress.
 
you can have "gas stations" generate it on demand from distilled water and electricity.
if you want to generate hydrogen in industrial quantities (which you'd need to run anything resembling a gas station) then you need an industrial sized electrolysis plant
these things are not small or cheap or easy to operate, takes a lot more than just running a bit of current through some water

and the overall energy efficiency of the [grid -> electrolysis plant -> hydrogen engine] idea is lower than the [grid -> car battery -> electric motor] chain that EVs run on
 
f you want to generate hydrogen in industrial quantities (which you'd need to run anything resembling a gas station) then you need an industrial sized electrolysis plant
these things are not small or cheap or easy to operate, takes a lot more than just running a bit of current through some water
Like how personal computers filled entire rooms and only the richest kings of Europe could afford them. If you invest in technology, you improve it. Once BEV fad dies out and investments start flowing into more viable tech, expect to see rapid breakthroughs. This will be especially critical for remote locations that can't get scheduled fuel shipments but can generate their own power.

Overall hydrogen tech allows for more decentralization and reduces dependence on big government, that's why politicians and activists have been traditionally against it, stifling development and instead promoting dead end tech like BEVs.
 
Like how personal computers filled entire rooms and only the richest kings of Europe could afford them. If you invest in technology, you improve it. Once BEV fad dies out and investments start flowing into more viable tech, expect to see rapid breakthroughs. This will be especially critical for remote locations that can't get scheduled fuel shipments but can generate their own power.

Overall hydrogen tech allows for more decentralization and reduces dependence on big government, that's why politicians and activists have been traditionally against it, stifling development and instead promoting dead end tech like BEVs.
water electrolysis is not a new idea, common processes are already operating in the 70% to 80% efficiency range (with 100% being the theoretical maximum dictated by thermodynamics)
you're not going to see anything here that resembles the exponential improvements we saw in computing, and you're not going to see massive decreases in size or cost of the installations either because there's only so much you can do to shrink a device that has to hold X liters of water and withstand Y megawatts of electric power going through it. these are physical constraints that put a hard limit on how far these technologies can be pushed, the closer you get to the theoretical optimum the more you are subject to diminishing returns of any effort you put into trying to improve it even further.
 
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