Terminator: Dark Fate - Cause we need another one of these apparently.

[The handsome tard]

Hey my fellow Tim Miller haters (aka, sane people), here is an interesting what if plot for maybe an else world Terminator comic.
What if...Sarah Connor had twins? Both male...and she has no idea which one is suppose to be the John Connor. So we would get the plot of T2 with "John" (being that she literally took a gamble here) and his twin brother that were raised separatedly (I imagine he would be living a much better life and maybe trying to help his mother's sanity in an attempt to get her care and love, since it was always towards John).
Honestly, it would have been way more interesting than anything we had since T2. We would have more unique dynamics and maybe see things in a different light.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Haven't seen it but I'm not surprised. All this "You hate Ghostbuster 2016 because you hate WHAMMIN" is provoking an overreaction. People are starting to assume "Stronk wammin" = shit by association.

Its not by any stretch of the imagination GB 2016 bad

Miller isnt as big of a hack fraud as Feig is. Feig has a career of riding the coat tails of talented women and taking credit for their work

 

[HeyYou]

Its not by any stretch of the imagination GB 2016 bad

GB 2016 wasn't the worst movie ever, either, it just ended up being painfully mediocre and unfunny. The only difference in the two situations is that Ghostbusters 2 sucked, unlike Terminator 2, and there were three movies in-between 2 and Dark Fate.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

GB 2016 wasn't the worst movie ever, either, it just ended up being painfully mediocre and unfunny. The only different in the two situations is that Ghostbusters 2 sucked, unlike Terminator 2, and there were three movies in-between 2 and Dark Fate.

So GB 2016 was a very bad movie [Badly written, badly directed, excessive all over the place] But when you get into "Worst movie" territory what makes GB 2016 [in ways] worse then say a Neil Breen act of Breenius is the ideas and story of GB 2016 are so fundementally poorly thought out they end up coming out Mediocre. Neil Breen has terrible and poorly thought out ideas and he goes all in

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

Using women/ethnic minorities/gays/whatever as a meatshield against criticism and as a blunt object to attack any who voice dissent is making a lot of people reflexively get suspicious when they see big franchises/corporations/creators produce work with women/ethnic minorities/gays/whatever as main characters, solely because of the idea it could just be another case of shitty creators using a scumbag tactic to silence criticism of their lazy corporate slop and thus is not worth watching at best, and worth actively opposing at worst, despite the fact that before this tactic became so widespread in hackland a diverse cast was the most mundane and uncontroversial thing imaginable since atleast the 80s.

I'm not sure what's the root cause of today's mediocre Hollywood output. Is it the most recent writer's strike from 2007-2008, #MeToo or Trump getting elected?

Maybe it has more to do with industry health/corporate regulation. With Disney owning 40% of theatres now with all of its mergers and acquisitions, and now trying to compete with Netflix, it seems like theatres are on the way out as a mainstream staple in favor of streaming platforms. Most studios are desperate to stay afloat, failing to compete with Disney and strike gold on any IP, new or old. DC struck gold with Joker, but now JJ Abrams is thinking of doing a Superman movie? So success only lasts until some privileged mega-hack or diversity hire gets their hands on it? Oy vey. Nevermind that hiring seems less based on hiring talented "diverse" actors, but cheaper actors who are also diverse.

Razorfist put out an interesting video about corporate regulation. It's about Big Tech monopolies, but it may apply to Disney as well:

 

[Dom Cruise]

I'm not sure what's the root cause of today's mediocre Hollywood output. Is it the most recent writer's strike from 2007-2008, #MeToo or Trump getting elected?

I think the 2007-2008 writer’s strike did indeed fuck shit up in a way that never really fully recovered.

For one example you had the literally retar.ded Transformers sequel which was so stupid because of the strike and yet still made a shitload of money, which sent a bad message that Hollywood really didn’t have to try so long as they had name recognition.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

For one example you had the literally retar.ded Transformers sequel which was so stupid because of the strike and yet still made a shitload of money, which sent a bad message that Hollywood really didn’t have to try so long as they had name recognition.

Maybe that's what sowed the seeds for Hollywood's failure with all these reboots and remakes. They got the wrong message from cases like Transformers 2.

Now you have Twitter shitheads like Rian Johnson who think they can write. Or better yet, people like JJ Abrams and his flunkies like Alex Kurtzman. Nothing but destruction in the wake of their awful writing.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I'm not sure what's the root cause of today's mediocre Hollywood output. Is it the most recent writer's strike from 2007-2008, #MeToo or Trump getting elected?

Part of it is in the very least Ballooning Production costs, Think about Frozen (lets use the first one) It cost 150 Million To make, and made 1.2 Billion World Wide.

The Big mega hit of the 90s? The Lion King. 45 Million, 1/3 of the budget..and made 960 Million World Wide.

 

[The handsome tard]

Part of it is in the very least Ballooning Production costs, Think about Frozen (lets use the first one) It cost 150 Million To make, and made 1.2 Billion World Wide.

The Big mega hit of the 90s? The Lion King. 45 Million, 1/3 of the budget..and made 960 Million World Wide.

Doesnt help movies like Frozen reinforce the illusion that movies need to have wahmen in charge for the movie to be sucesseful...
If you like Frozen, thats fine but I cant stand it even without the whole Let It Go fever, now that Frozen 2 is out and sadly making a buck for the demon mouse, we better dont expect shit to change anytime soon, especially for Disney animation.
I miss 2D handdrawn animation...

Edit: I do think Frozen is the "best" / worst thing to happen to recent Disney. I would have prefered if Elsa became evil at the end, like you know, she was originally intended to be given the OG tale has an evil ice queen but they decided to make her a generic disney prin- oh no, "queen" at the end...still as markable whore as the others, except there is no man in her life (in fact, I remember some of the usual butthurts getting autistically pissed at Disney for not making her a lesbian in 2, you truly cant make them happy)

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Doesnt help movies like Frozen reinforce the illusion that movies need to have wahmen in charge for the movie to be sucesseful...
If you like Frozen, thats fine but I cant stand it even without the whole Let It Go fever, now that Frozen 2 is out and sadly making a buck for the demon mouse, we better dont expect shit to change anytime soon, especially for Disney animation.
I miss 2D handdrawn animation...

Edit: I do think Frozen is the "best" / worst thing to happen to recent Disney. I would have prefered if Elsa became evil at the end, like you know, she was originally intended to be given the OG tale has an evil ice queen but they decided to make her a generic disney prin- oh no, "queen" at the end...still as markable whore as the others, except there is no man in her life (in fact, I remember some of the usual butthurts getting autistically pissed at Disney for not making her a lesbian in 2, you truly cant make them happy)

That depends on how you define successful, Lion King made almost as much as Frozen Yogurt 1 at 1/3 of the price.

 

[The handsome tard]

That depends on how you define successful, Lion King made almost as much as Frozen Yogurt 1 at 1/3 of the price.

Frozen Yogurt
Thats so stupid its actually funny.

The problem is that Frozen still made more at the box office than Lion King, the returns themselves are another story altogether (tho I agree with you there).The Lion King, for the better or worse, was when it all peaked and then it went all downwards (I personally think a lot of those movies were still great like Treasure Planet, Atlantis and Hunchback, tho duds like Pocahontas and Home on the Range were game killers for Disney to the point they pulled the plug on the hand drawn departament...until the actually pretty good The Princess and The Frog, except due to Disney's awful marketing, they made it sound far too childish and thus no one saw it as much as Tangled.) Frozen was followed by constant hits (or at least far from underperforming), which I think fed too much to their ego to this day...
I blame the media and disney itself for reinforcing the steriotype that not only animation is for little kids (ignoring a lot of early animations were adult and pretty edgy) but that handdrawn animation is EVEN MORE childish.
In their stupid Mary Poppins sequel (why do dis tho?), there was a brief handdrawn animated segment and it felt like seeing an old friend...it just truly reminded me that Disney can do some damn fine looking handdrawn movie if they really wanted to.
Everyone is claiming to be "sick" of CGI but everyone still keeps chugging the same Calarts tier generic CGI animation. Its HARD to stylize CG, unlike handdrawn, so everything keeps looking the same.
Also Frozen 2 being a hit will motivate Disney more to invest in their PC feminist agenda, mark my words, they are having duds and failure everywhere but they will milk the shit out of this ONE movie (that honestly, I think people are only watching because of "oh yeah, Frozen was a thing" and to shut up their noisy children).
Im waiting for them to announce Frozen 3 and that they will finally cave in and make Elsa a lesbian (trust me, you know Disney will do it to reinforce their degenerate agenda)

...Yeah sorry for the sperg rant, its just...man, I miss the disney that actually earned its sucesses instead of riding them out.

Edit: oh! And for the record, assholes.

"The Black Cauldron" > Frozen

I said it, fight me. I take the LOTR rip off over it.

 

[Bread Fetishist]

Im waiting for them to announce Frozen 3 and that they will finally cave in and make Elsa a lesbian (trust me, you know Disney will do it to reinforce their degenerate agenda)

Woketards: Female characters should not be defined by romantic relationships.

Also woketards: So, like, when are they gonna give Elsa a girlfriend?

 

[The handsome tard]

Woketards: Female characters should not be defined by romantic relationships.

Also woketards: So, like, when are they gonna give Elsa a girlfriend?

I love how they automatically assume that Elsa is gay. I mean...what if she isnt gay? What if she is straight and meet a guy just like her, powers, "cold" personality? Will SJWs demand she gets forced into a lesbian? Oh who am I kidding, of course they will. They are all against tyranny until they are the ones doing it.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

BLAHEY GUYZ ANYWAYZ BACK TO TERMINATOR:

Leave it to an honest unassuming fan to get the scoop and just have a nice chat with Eddie. It feels good just hearing a really candid reaction like that from an actor. Hope he got paid enough for that.

Forbes eventually got around to sticking him into an article about the Days of the Dead event in Chicago:

Stars Of It Chapter Two And Terminator: Dark Fate Talk Film Franchises At Days Of The Dead In Chicago

It Chapter Two stars Chosen Jacobs, Jackson Robert Scott, Jeremy Ray Taylor and Wyatt Oleff and Terminator: Dark Fate's Edward Furlong spoke about successful film franchises during the Days of the Dead convention in Chicago.

www.forbes.com

Stars Of It Chapter Two And Terminator: Dark Fate Talk Film Franchise…

archived 1 Dec 2019 06:26:50 UTC

archive.ph

Here's the part about Eddie:

Terminator: Dark Fate was released on November 1 and actors Michael Biehn and Edward Furlong were on hand to discuss it in Chicago at Days of the Dead.

Furlong made his on screen return to the John Connor character in Dark Fate, the sixth installment of the Terminator franchise.

It’s the character that launched his career following the massive success of Terminator 2: Judgement Day, which, as the then most expensive movie ever made, grossed over $500 million worldwide following its 1991 release.

But the troubled actor was replaced by Nick Stahl, who portrayed Connor in the 2003 picture Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines.

“I got into things that weren’t good for me - for a long time,” said Furlong of losing the role, measuring his response to a question posed by a young fan during a Sunday panel. “I was a kid who had a lot happening all at one. And I wasn’t really able to process it.”

Furlong spoke openly and candidly about the highs and lows of his career, from working with artists like Aerosmith and Metallica in music videos to directors like John Waters (Pecker) and James Cameron (Terminator), who applied de-aging technology to Furlong’s performance in the new Terminator film.

But he saved his highest praise for Terminator star Arnold Schwarzenegger.

“I grew up watching Predator and Total Recall. I really looked up to Arnold throughout that whole movie,” said Furlong of filming T2. “Out of all the actors I’ve worked with, he is an amazing role model. And I still look up to him. I really do.”

The actor was in good spirits and joked about his skills during the panel, saying, “I’m not Daniel Day-Lewis.” Furlong also best summed up the convention experience.

“Basically, my job is to sit on my a— and sign autographs and let people tell me how awesome I am,” he joked. “The fact that I can do that is both awesome and wrong at the same time.”

That last quote from him is just ... man. He gets a lot of love but feels he doesn't deserve it. Poor guy. I'd love to see him really bounce back, like the guy from Cobra Kai.

They mentioned Michael Biehn being there to field questions about the movie, but then proceeded to write nothing else about him. Ok thanks.

I found this interesting fact I wasn't aware of on the Facebook post for the event:

He starred in two other films directed by James Cameron: Aliens (as Corporal Hicks) and The Abyss (as Lieutenant Hiram Coffey), and had a small role in Terminator 2: Judgment Day, briefly reprising role as Reese in a scene cut from the final film but restored for the Director's Cut version. He was considered to portray the film's antagonist, the T-1000, but the role ultimately went to Robert Patrick.

Imagine that.

Only recording I could find of Biehn at DotD 2019 was this:

It's kinda fascinating. He just goes off on Stanley Kubrick about how he's a sociopath who harrasses his actors, and how 2001 and the second half of Full Metal Jacket are overrated trash. Nothing about Dark Fate unfortunately.

Screen Rant released a lengthy opinion piece about the future of Terminator after Dark Fate:

Terminator's Movie Future After Dark Fate Bomb

What next for Terminator after another disappointing box office failure?

screenrant.com

Terminator Movie Future After Dark Fate Bomb | Screen Rant

archived 1 Dec 2019 06:58:37 UTC

archive.ph

I'm convinced they're only just repeating whatever Tim Miller / James Cameron / Skydance says about how or why the movie flopped:

Recognizing the lack of interest in Terminator after the events of the second film, Dark Fate was conceived as a direct follow-on from Judgement Day, entirely ignoring everything that came after the turn of the millennium. If that wasn't enough to tempt back lapsed fans, James Cameron was drafted in as a producer and writer, with his return also heralding the on-screen comeback of Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor. Essentially, Dark Fate did everything it could to recapture Terminator's old magic, from reuniting key cast and crew to rewriting the timeline in a way that would appeal to fans from the 1980s and 1990s.

In a sense, this tactic wasn't a complete failure, as many fans and critics agree that Dark Fate is the best Terminator movie in recent memory. Movie studios, however, will be more concerned with their bottom line, and the fact remains that while those who did see Dark Fate mostly enjoyed it, the lure of Cameron, Hamilton and the original timeline wasn't enough to entice movie-goers into buying tickets. This disconnect between reviews and box office is arguably the most worrying sign for the future of Terminator, as it suggests that audiences are simply bored with the franchise, and that no matter what Terminator does, there simply isn't a desire in the market for additional movies. Perhaps this dark fate would've been different if Terminator 3 - 5 simply hadn't happened, and the latest installment was the actual third entry in the series. For now though, it appears that the James Cameron card Terminator held up its sleeve for so many years has been spent - and to no avail.

Yes, if only Dark Fate came out in 1999/2003, people would've better accepted the bullshit hero replacement, let alone the aping of Alien 3. You have to be incredibly dense or dismissive to buy that. The movie's a sad, bleak and pointless facsimile of T2. The fact that it failed had nothing to do with the prior three movies it erased; that's a loser's attitude. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

A continuation of the story Dark Fate started looks remote, such is the financial loss Terminator has endured, but it would make little sense to return to the other continuity after Terminator Genisys fared just as poorly. If Paramount and Skydance insist on pursuing further avenues within the cyber-apocalypse, perhaps the only real option left available to them is a complete reboot that abandons all plot threads, familiar characters and existing timelines in favor of an entirely fresh slate, telling the Skynet story from the very beginning.

A complete reboot of the franchise and a Skynet origin are two different premises. I would accept either, but not necessarily both.

As alluded to previously, however, the lack of box office growth from Terminator Genisys to Dark Fate shows that a string of bad movies has killed interest in the franchise to the point where releasing a much stronger movie has minimal impact. As a result of this phenomenon, the main issue currently facing Terminator is that many movie-goers simply don't care about the product, whatever timeline, continuity or characters it features. This isn't a problem that will be solved by a reboot. In many ways, Dark Fate virtually acted as a reboot in itself, winding back the narrative to 1991 and erasing three entire movies. How much of an effect could finishing the job and scrubbing out the remaining two films have? And which studio executive would take such a mammoth risk in green-lighting an inevitably expensive production despite a well-documented recent history of vastly underperforming.

I think people would be interested in a good Terminator film, same way they might be interested in a good Star Wars film or a good DC film. It wouldn't matter how many bad films came before it as long as this next one was really, really good. You won't get there on just the premise alone: either a reboot or an origin story. You need to work at it. Understand what made Terminator good, what people liked about it, and what people are saying they want next. Hint: It rhymes with suture wore.

Spoiler: Just give them THIS! It's this goddamn simple

It's just so disheartening that not even the creator could get this right with a room full of writers and a CG-specialized production studio.

And so it seems like the future is yet another fucking TV show:

If there is a way forward for the Terminator franchise, perhaps it's on the small screen. Ignoring the misfortunes of Dark Fate, there remains some goodwill and appreciation for The Sarah Connor Chronicles, the Fox TV series that ran for 2 seasons between 2008 and 2009. With the streaming wars now well underway, Terminator might find better success telling smaller stories (with a smaller budget) on an online TV platform. Services are currently competing for brand-name properties, and having seemingly sent its last T-800 into theaters, Terminator might find itself revitalized by a change of scenery and in a market that specializes in reviving defunct properties.

I hate this idea. If they think people just aren't interested in any more Terminator movies, what makes them think they'd be any more interested in downgrading the franchise back to a TV show?

Honestly I don't care how many decent ideas TSCC had, it had it's fair share of weird ones too. I didn't care for the idea of John have a cyborg girlfriend protector, thought the dynamic between him and his mother was okay, and the rest was just I dunno. You wanna talk about how the sequels cheapened the impact of the first two? Well with all the time travel shenanigans the show pulled, I don't remember how it was any better or less contrived.

I don't have much faith in a TV show today. Even the Mandalorian, for as good as it's first 3 episodes are, is showing hints of getting woke in the latest episode. I can't stand the idea of being lectured again in another of my favorite entertainment brand while I watch it get destroyed.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

Fantasy II Film Effects supervisor Gene Warren Jr. passed away late last month:

Fantasy II Film Effects’ Gene Warren Jnr. Dies

Gene Warren Jnr. of Fantasy II Effects sadly passed away on November 28th 2019. The news comes from Terminator 2's Bart J. Mixon...

www.theterminatorfans.com

He won an Oscar alongside Dennis Muren & Robert Skotak for visual effects in 1992:

Rest in peace, Gene. Rest in peace, T2.

So it looks like there isn't going to be any news about Terminator for a while. It pretty much feels like right after Genisys came out: the hype died out and uncertain apathy settled in.

So after having beaten Terminator: Resistance, I had a thought come to mind when listening to a podcast. Somebody mentioned Y2K and the whole digital blackout/end-of-the-world scenario that dominated the news before the turn of the millenium. That reminded me of how James Cameron once wanted to make a T3 around that time, but then September 11th happened and he quickly shut it all down. Or maybe I'm confusing that with True Lies 2, but nevertheless, what a missed opportunity for a Terminator movie to capitalize on the Y2K scare. That would've been perfect.

 

[The handsome tard]

Fantasy II Film Effects supervisor Gene Warren Jr. passed away late last month:

Fantasy II Film Effects’ Gene Warren Jnr. Dies

Gene Warren Jnr. of Fantasy II Effects sadly passed away on November 28th 2019. The news comes from Terminator 2's Bart J. Mixon...

www.theterminatorfans.com

He won an Oscar alongside Dennis Muren & Robert Skotak for visual effects in 1992:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YSBl0iXcIqE:150
Rest in peace, Gene. Rest in peace, T2.

So it looks like there isn't going to be any news about Terminator for a while. It pretty much feels like right after Genisys came out: the hype died out and uncertain apathy settled in.

So after having beaten Terminator: Resistance, I had a thought come to mind when listening to a podcast. Somebody mentioned Y2K and the whole digital blackout/end-of-the-world scenario that dominated the news before the turn of the millenium. That reminded me of how James Cameron once wanted to make a T3 around that time, but then September 11th happened and he quickly shut it all down. Or maybe I'm confusing that with True Lies 2, but nevertheless, what a missed opportunity for a Terminator movie to capitalize on the Y2K scare. That would've been perfect.

What the hell could the plot be, that wouldnt be a piece of dog shit as usual?

Also, rest in peace, Gene. May God realize what a genius is with Him now. His effects and therebefore himself wont ever be forgotten nor surpassed.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

I dunno, the sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned. The most logical answer for me would be a prequel all about Skynet and the moment it becomes self-aware. It could even be a new iteration of the time loop where, in addition to launching the nukes, it does what Legion did and shuts off all communications somehow. Sounds way better than it just becoming an internet virus in T3.

 

[The handsome tard]

I dunno, the sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned. The most logical answer for me would be a prequel all about Skynet and the moment it becomes self-aware. It could even be a new iteration of the time loop where, in addition to launching the nukes, it does what Legion did and shuts off all communications somehow. Sounds way better than it just becoming an internet virus in T3.

As long it doesn't negate the ending of T2...

 

[BrunoMattei]

I would expect a remake of Terminator 1 to happen. Which they kind of already did with Genisys. So, they wrote themselves into a corner on that one.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

I would expect a remake of Terminator 1 to happen. Which they kind of already did with Genisys. So, they wrote themselves into a corner on that one.

It could still happen. The bodybuilder cyborg chasing a literal nobody is still a perfectly viable concept for film. It would have to be really close to the style of T1 rather than T2 or anything after it, though. Dark, moody, claustrophobic. I'm more concerned about more forced contemporary themes polluting such an attempt.

It would need to use the original as a basis and then build on it, exploring a little more of the Kyle character and his relationship with the Sarah character. There could even be a twist where two Terminators were sent back--the T-800 and the T-1000--like Cameron originally wanted, but that may make the movie too long or unfocused. Or it could be more interesting in the right hands.