Terminator: Dark Fate - Cause we need another one of these apparently.

[Idiotron]

I don't think those deleted scenes really enhance T2.
They do slow it down and mess up the pacing.
You like those scenes now because you like the movie but, if they were there from the start, chances are that you would like it slightly less.
It's like those extended scenes in Aliens where we see how the Xenomprphs got to the outpost, we don't need that shit.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that focusing on Cyberdyne and the future more and more in the sequels is what killed the franchise so I would like as little of that as possible.

 

[Ahriman]

Yea they are a bit too indulgent and/or redundant in some cases, I can understand why they were removed from the threatrical cut. Which makes the theatrical cut the superior version, then.

 

[Pumpkin Girl IRL]

If you dislike the smile scene you are a monster.

Arnold's a fantastic physical actor, and that bit still cracks me up like a complete twat.

 

[Ahriman]

If you dislike the smile scene you are a monster.

Arnold's a fantastic physical actor, and that bit still cracks me up like a complete twat.

I mean, I get why they filmed it in the first place, I guess they wanted to add something a bit more light-hearted after all the foreboding and chasing around. Maybe test audiences thought it was too silly or something.

 

[BScCollateral]

When T2 first came out, the scene where the T-1000 tortures Sarah to get her to yell for John was called out as a plot hole, because the T-1000 could have imitated her voice.

I argued that it was not, because the T-1000 tried to imitate a voice earlier, and it failed.

Now, it failed because the T-1000 got the dog's name wrong, but if the T-1000 doesn't know that, it all holds together. If the T-1000 does know that, then its behavior is hard to explain.

 

[Dom Cruise]

It's like those extended scenes in Aliens where we see how the Xenomprphs got to the outpost, we don't need that shit.

Oh yeah, I hate that scene, it's so much more creepier just having the Marines show up to Hadley's Hope and have us the audience knowing as much as the Marines do as to just what exactly the fuck has happened.

That said I think that's the only extended scene that bugs me.

 

[Ahriman]

This teaser was fucking glorious.

 

[JEB!]

Did any of you see the battle across time 3D movie at universal?

Saw it on YouTube after all these years, but it looks pretty horrific. Probably would have been OK back in the 90s with the 3d glasses and shaky seats that were part of the ride.

Still pretty crazy that it cost like 60 million to make for such a tiny movie

 

[SamTheEagle]

Arnold's a fantastic physical actor

I feel like he doesn't get enough credit for this. I love the ending in Conan the Barbarian, where he doesn't say a word, but his facial expressions and body language say everything. Even something as simple as him sitting there and reflecting on all that's happened makes for a great scene (though no doubt greatly improved by Basil Poledouris's score).

 

[White Devil]

Did any of you see the battle across time 3D movie at universal?

Saw it on YouTube after all these years, but it looks pretty horrific. Probably would have been OK back in the 90s with the 3d glasses and shaky seats that were part of the ride.

Still pretty crazy that it cost like 60 million to make for such a tiny movie

I saw it live a couple times. Actually being there for it changes everything, honestly. I've watched it on YouTube as well but just is not the same.

 

[BScCollateral]

I saw it live a couple times. Actually being there for it changes everything, honestly. I've watched it on YouTube as well but just is not the same.

Agreed. I saw it twice; it was a lot of fun.

The line in was set up as a Cyberdyne tradeshow, and it was hilarious. I'm convinced someone involved in the design of the pre-show was an IT insider; as a spoof of contemporary computer trade shows it was perfect.

 

[Dysnomia]

Alien 3's biggest problem to me is killing off Newt and Higgs.
I think it would have been a great movie if it had not featured Ripley at all. If it was a movie set in the Alien universe, doing its own thing, it would have been far easier to appreciate.

Definitely. I liked the movie a lot otherwise. I thought having no real weapons made it more interesting. Ripley sacrifices herself to kill the xenomorph baby inside of her. Which was pretty brave. Although the ending was a lot like Terminator 2 now that I think of it. But I never noticed before.

It really was more innocent days back in the 1990s, at no point watching Terminator 2 as a kid did it strike me as unusual that the main scientist behind Skynet was black, it's so matter of fact and Joe Morton was so perfectly cast that it feels perfectly plausible and natural.

The character is just interesting in general, it's interesting that the creator of Skynet isn't some cackling villain, he just didn't know and when he learns the consequences of his actions he tries to help stop it, to the point of sacrificing his life.

Today's woke media would shine a big spotlight on it and really hammer it home just how stunning and brave it is that the scientist is black, compare it to something like Black Panther, instead of him just being, ya know, a guy.

The 1990s matter of factness is so much preferable as it's ironically regressive to act like a black scientist is some shocking, unexpected thing, reinforcing the stereotypes instead of just being "yeah, why couldn't they be?" and treating it as no big deal.

On the flipside to that if he wasn't black that they would probably depict him as some cackling villain because he works for a corporation because capitalism bad, the idea of someone being well meaning but misguided is a little too much ambiguity for modern media, compare this to James Cameron's own Avatar where all of the corporate and military guys were unambiguous assholes.


Pretty much, I'm a little more forgiving of all the Alien movies, Alien post 2 is a mixed bag, but it isn't totally worthless, there are positive aspects of Alien as a whole franchise and it is at least one cohesive whole canon timeline.

Terminator on the other hand is such a complete fucking mess, with retcons out the wazoo and non-canon entries, there are at least 3 different separate timelines and none of the movies after 2 even come close to matching the quality.

So Terminator absolutely ended at 2.


It's bad but it still has some interesting ideas, there was effort put into the movie at least.

It's the brother from another planet!

I read it was Joe Morton's idea to depict Miles Dyson like this and have him destroy the lab to prevent the birth of Skynet.


To me there are only two Terminator movies. Sometimes you gotta know when to end it on a high note.

One of the Terminator movies was supposed to have a big reveal that Skynet was trying to protect humanity from itself by pushing the big reset button. That's why it had a keyboard inside. So a human could use it when the time came to start rebuilding. So that meant all along Skynet was doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Weird.

 

[Syaoran Li]

This series ended for me with Terminator 2.

Just like the Alien series ended at Aliens and there were no prentious prequels were the Xenomorphs were made by a mad gay robot.

And noone can convince me otherwise.

Alien 3 was good and served as a fitting closer to the Alien franchise. The people who hate Alien 3 tend to be either autistic retards still butthurt because they killed Hicks and Newt (which made the movie better, IMO) or they're blindly following the crowds.

Alien Resurrection, the prequels, and the AVP movies all sucked though, that I will grant you.

I like Alien 3. Fuck all of you.

Same. Hating Alien 3 because Hicks and Newt died (even though the point was for Newt to die right off the bat) is some autistic bullshit and is pretty much a slightly more socially acceptable version of "Sonic's arms are blue!" sperging.

Newt was supposed to die to give a sense of dread and seriousness to Alien 3 since it's a tragedy meant to close off the series.

IIRC, one of the last drafts before the final version had it to where Hicks was going to survive the initial EEV crash but die later on in the movie while trying to save Ripley, which helped motivate her decision at the end.

Alien 3 was supposed to continue the theme of the first two films where it's about the cycle of life and that is why death and tragedy feature so heavily into the third film like sex and birth metaphors in the first one and the theme of "life and finding something to live for" is all over the second one.

They're popcorn flick "genre" movies but Dan Bannon did have the initial idea of the movies each having an underlying theme. Even the shitty fourth film tried to follow it with the whole "resurrection" thing but Joss Whedon is an untalented hack and the fourth one is much easier to separate from canon since it was going to be a "lol so quirky" Whedon parody of the franchise at first.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Alien 3 was good and served as a fitting closer to the Alien franchise. The people who hate Alien 3 tend to be either autistic retards still butthurt because they killed Hicks and Newt (which made the movie better, IMO) or they're blindly following the crowds.

Alien Resurrection, the prequels, and the AVP movies all sucked though, that I will grant you.

I liked Covenant too, fuck you.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

It's like those extended scenes in Aliens where we see how the Xenomprphs got to the outpost, we don't need that shit.

You mean this scene:

Was the entire scene cut in the theatric version? Cause I am quite fond of it. It shows Hadley's Hope before the Aliens attack and introduces a hand full of interesting bits:
- It establishes that someone send those workers to check out the location of the ship, which sets up the reveal that Burke is to blame
- It shows that it was a pretty busy place with many people, including kids, which makes the loss of life pack more of a punch
- We get a bit of a glimpse into Weyland Yutani's corporate culture ("It takes two weeks to get an answer out here and the answer is 'Don't ask'!"), that entire exchange fleshes out the setting a lot
- It establishes that kids play in the airducts, which helps explain how Newt could hide there for so long

And I don't think the movie loses that much in exchange when the scene is put into the movie tbh. The audience knows the reason for the communication blackout and that there's going to be aliens in Hadley's Hope with or without this scene, so it's not like the Marines going there and not finding anyone is that big of a surprise anyway and the scene where they arrive is still pretty intense, cause you don't know if they'll get attacked or what they'll find. And I feel the empty, desolate state of that settlement very well contrasts with the scene earlier with the kids in the corridor.

Though it really could have done without the zoom on Newt's face while she screams... that shot is awkward as fuck and could have been left out.

Alien 3 was good and served as a fitting closer to the Alien franchise. The people who hate Alien 3 tend to be either autistic retards still butthurt because they killed Hicks and Newt (which made the movie better, IMO) or they're blindly following the crowds.

Hard disagree from my part. By killing off Newt and Hicks, they commit the greatest sin of a sequel possible: They invalidate the movie that came beforehand. It turns the big climax of Aliens into an utter waste of time - I'd even go so far and say that it turns the entire second movie into a waste of time. In that regard it's a lot like Terminator Dark Fate (killing off John Connor) or... you know... the Star Wars sequels. Part of the reason why these movies suck so hard is that TFA invalidates everything that was achieved in the old trilogy. Then we get TLJ that invalidates anything from TFA and then we have Plan 9 from Exegol, which invalidates TLJ.
Alien 3 turns Aliens into pointless wheelspinning, so you trade in one of the best sequels in cinema history in favor of a somewhat mediocre movie.
No amount of Stockholm-syndrome induced fever dreams about "themes" will change that.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Hard disagree from my part. By killing off Newt and Hicks, they commit the greatest sin of a sequel possible: They invalidate the movie that came beforehand.

Totally disagree with your (bad) take but just wanted to point this out: Aliens invalidated the threat of the Alien by making it so you can easily kill them with a Pulse Rifle or even a shotgun (albeit point blank). Does that not completely invalidate the threat the Alien had in the first movie? Just toast the fucker with a flamethrower, it's dead.

Gotcha', bitch.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Totally disagree with your (bad) take but just wanted to point this out: Aliens invalidated the threat of the Alien by making it so you can easily kill them with a Pulse Rifle or even a shotgun (albeit point blank). Does that not completely invalidate the threat the Alien had in the first movie? Just toast the fucker with a flamethrower, it's dead.

Gotcha', bitch.

Not really.
In Alien, the best they can come up with is a thrown together makeshift Flamethrower (where even the guy who made it remarks how crappy it is iirc), the arsenal in Aliens is a tiny bit more impressive:

The threat in Alien is schlubby space truckers trying to fight off an unknown organism without even as much as a handgun and they underestimate it.
The threat in Aliens is a squad of trained and fully equipped Space Marines going down into a settlement that has been overrun by hundreds of these unknown creatures and getting their asses kicked, cause they underestimated them (partially, cause their Lieutenant is an inexperienced fool).

For shits n giggles: The flamethrower in Aliens is about as ineffective as the flamethrower in Alien, so I can pretty much handwave away your argument by pointing that out. The crew of the Nostromo tried to kill a Xenomorph with fire, shit sucks that the Xenomorph has high resistence against fire.

Also how is it a bad take to point out that by killing off Newt and Hicks, the second movie becomes pointless? The big climax of Aliens is rescuing Newt, leaving the planet with her and Hicks and the next movie has them DOA. You might as well watch Alien, skip Aliens altogether and it would cause almost no continuity issues whatsoever. Ripley blows up the Nostromo, flees in the shuttle after blowing the Alien out the airlock, spends a couple decades floating through space, crashes into the foundy. Just cut out every mention of Newt, Hicks and Bishop and nothing changes and that's it.
If you watch Aliens, though, there are no real stakes, when Ripley goes to rescue Newt, since she's going to die anyway in the next movie. Off screen. Whoopee.

No reason to get all salty, mate.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Nah son, you got gotcha'd. Just bend over and accept it.

 

[L50LasPak]

There's nothing in the first movie to suggest that the xenomorph is invulnerable to conventional weaponry. It also does get speared with what looks to be a regular grappling hook during the final battle on the escape shuttle. Which... why didn't that hook or cable melt from the acid blood by the way?

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

I don't think those deleted scenes really enhance T2.
They do slow it down and mess up the pacing.
You like those scenes now because you like the movie but, if they were there from the start, chances are that you would like it slightly less.
It's like those extended scenes in Aliens where we see how the Xenomprphs got to the outpost, we don't need that shit.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that focusing on Cyberdyne and the future more and more in the sequels is what killed the franchise so I would like as little of that as possible.

See, I think there could be a good Terminator sequel set after Judgement Day, but it would require some liberties. For instance, ignore everything after T3, which was a serviceable film that just had some really bad shit thrown in. I liked the concept of the Terminator being sent back to drag him to the bunker where he survives, but that's about it. Retcon some shit and leave out the craptastic parts.
Now, as for a sequel set in the future when the machines and humanity are trying to murder each other, what if we see a new chapter in the war? Set after all the times they sent back a Terminator to protect John or get him to the bunker, the knowledge of reprogramming Terminators to fight for humanity is actively being used against the machines as humanity manages to capture one of their production facilities and make robots that fight for our side.

Is it perfect? No, and almost nothing ever is. Could it be a good movie if done right? Fuck yeah it could. 2 hours of robots fighting each other over our fate sounds like it could be a fun action flick.