Telegram: Users' IP Addresses, Phone Numbers Can Be Given to Police - they got him boys

Telegram: Users' IP Addresses, Phone Numbers Can Be Given to Police

To crack down on criminal activity on Telegram, the messaging provider says it can now disclose the data to law enforcement in response to a legal request.
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(Photo by Silas Stein/picture alliance via Getty Images)


In a major privacy change, Telegram is opening the door to sharing user data, including IP addresses and phone numbers, with law enforcement.

On Monday, Telegram CEO Pavel Durov announced the change after vowing to crack down on illegal activities on the messaging platform following his arrest in France.

In a post, Durov said Telegram is working to control Telegram's search function, which some users have abused to “sell illegal goods.” In response, a team of moderators is using AI to identify and remove problematic content in Telegram’s search.

Durov added: “To further deter criminals from abusing Telegram Search, we have updated our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, ensuring they are consistent across the world. We’ve made it clear that the IP addresses and phone numbers of those who violate our rules can be disclosed to relevant authorities in response to valid legal requests.”

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(Credit: Telegram)

It’s a major reversal considering that last month, the app's privacy policy said: “If Telegram receives a court order that confirms you're a terror suspect, we may disclose your IP address and phone number to the relevant authorities. So far, this has never happened.”

The company has since changed the policy to note Telegram may supply a user’s IP address and phone number to the police for not just terrorism, but “If Telegram receives a valid order from the relevant judicial authorities that confirms you're a suspect in a case involving criminal activities that violate the Telegram Terms of Service.” Then, Telegram will conduct a legal analysis on whether to hand over the information.

The policy change occurs after France arrested Durov last month for allegedly failing to cooperate with local law enforcement in stopping crime on the app. As a result, French investigators charged Durov for his complicity in several serious crimes, including child pornography distribution and narcotics trafficking, which have allegedly been occurring on Telegram.

Durov, who has French citizenship, has since been released on bail. In response to the charges, he initially told Telegram’s user base he’d strive to find a balance between privacy and security while refusing to bow down to governments demanding it hand over encryption keys or engage in censorship. Nevertheless, Durov also committed to cracking down on criminals on the messaging service, which led him to change Telegram’s privacy policy on Monday.

In his post, Durov added: “These measures should discourage criminals. Telegram Search is meant for finding friends and discovering news, not for promoting illegal goods. We won't let bad actors jeopardize the integrity of our platform for almost a billion users.”

Still, the change raises some serious doubts about Telegram’s privacy, especially since the app doesn’t end-to-end encrypt user messages by default. This means Durov’s platform can also theoretically hand over user messages to law enforcement as well.

Th other issue is whether Telegram will honor legal requests from more authoritarian governments such as Russia. In the meantime, there’s already signs that many cybercriminals are ditching Telegram over fears about the app supplying user data to the police.

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To say nothing of the privacy issues inherent in this latest development, it has been a long time coming that something drastic would happen. People have been selling drugs, stolen CC information, compromised accounts, tradeline scams, and a bunch of other sketchy shit on Telegram for a while now.
 
Signal is staffed by former senior Google people.

They're no better.
That's a lazy take.


After more than a decade at the search giant, she learned from a friend in 2017 that Google’s cloud computing unit was working on a controversial contract with the Department of Defense known as Project Maven. She and other workers saw it as hypocritical for Google to work on artificial intelligence technology that could potentially be used for drone warfare. They started discussing taking collective action against the company.

Is there a specific ex-Google person working at Signal that is an issue for them? Signal is the only company that you can see in court records time and time again does not give any meaningful information to the feds, this was even confirmed in leaked documents years ago.


If you want to go by that same logic, notoriously privacy respecting Mozilla also hired an ex-Google person.

My point to all this is its stupid to try and even compare the two as the same when Signal has made a very effort to protects its users that can be verified. Telling people they have former Google so you can't trust them is just silly and a take that you can probably apply to almost any privacy project at this point.
 
That article doesnt say what they got out of signal.

It has an image linked in the article, but heres a source of what the FBI gets out of Signal.


I guess you would have to take signal's word for it when they share these documents. But I'll see if I can find a public source that confirms the documents, court listener or something.
Katherine Maher

Session-bros, I think it's our time.
TRANSCRIPT BEGINS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Katherine Maher: I started by talking about the idea of free and open information as some of our founding principles 'Free and open source' coming from the idea of the open source community .

Well, I have come to the opinion and the perspective that 'free and open' was a way of looking at the world that was inherently limited relative to what we were trying to achieve.

'Free and open' has the best of intentionality, but in the end, what 'free and open' often ended up doing, particularly in the case of Wikipedia, was recapitulating many of the same power structures and dynamics that exist offline, prior to the advent of the Internet.

And so what we ended up seeing was Wikipedia really rebuilt this idea of knowledge as a whole around what, the Western canon.

We see the exclusion of communities, of languages, because of the ways in which Wikpedia Is based on reliable sources, the idea of a written tradition, which is particular to some cultures and not to others.

The ways in which we ascribe notability often really comes some of this white male Westernized construct around who matters in societies, and who is elevated and who is voiceless.

And so some of these ideas of, sort of this, radical openness really did not end up living into the intentionality of what openness can be.

TRANSCRIPT ENDS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was not aware of this person being part of Signal. I still think my original point somewhat stands, but I'll concede that these types of people seem to overlap in the circles of people who push propaganda and censor other people. I didn't put weirdo feminist propagandists as something to associate with Signal.

Session is better either way. Built-in onion-like routing (similar to tor), no phone/email required, and it does have capability for groups. Only issue I've had is the speed of messaging but that's kind of expected when it routes data the way it does.
 
Signal is staffed by former senior Google people.

They're no better.
And the guy behind Brave Browser was in charge of Mozilla.
Action speak louder than words and purity spiral bullshit gets no one anywhere.
Session is better either way. Built-in onion-like routing (similar to tor), no phone/email required, and it does have capability for groups. Only issue I've had is the speed of messaging but that's kind of expected when it routes data the way it does.
Good fucking luck with that one. I mean it. It took years for me to get my mother to use Signal (mostly so I can fucking hear what she's saying). Expecting someone like her to switch messaging apps again because of shit she doesn't care about is a Sisyphean task.
 
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