🤝 Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[A tree]

Me neither. Its haunting.

 

[GenociderSyo]

He's being kept alive by the hospital equipment. When his circulatory system shuts down, combined with the brain death, he will be dead. Having a pulse is an important factor of being alive because our body needs oxygenated blood. Once machines stop he will flatline and be pronounced dead.

The court report though states that multiple angiograms showed no blood flow into around or out of his brain. His circulatory system is already been compromised.

 

[booklover]

In the United States, I believe a child can be expelled from an entire school district, which generally means he or she is prohibited from attending all the schools in a given city or metro area. This is usually a consequence of serious infractions, like bringing a gun to school or calling in a bomb threat, rather than being a five year old with unmedicated ADHD. There are "alternative schools" which are supposed to serve the educational needs of these kids, although, as you can imagine, having all the troublemakers in one school doesn't do anyone any favors. Parents can also "homeschool", which almost always just means leaving the kid to his own devices until he's old enough to drop out, generally after age 16.


Ah yes, technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Once your brain stem starts to die, the chances of regaining meaningful consciousness are poor.

I knew several people who worked (and had their own reasons for choosing to do so) at the alt-school in my old town, and the one thing that never changed was that they believed in compulsory sterilization for all students on admission; girls who arrived pregnant who had their babies should have them taken away immediately after birth and placed for adoption, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I told that story to a woman I know who works at a regular HS where I live now, and she said that the alt-schools here have stricter rules than the regular schools, so the kids won't WANT to go there.

The court report though states that multiple angiograms showed no blood flow into around or out of his brain. His circulatory system is already been compromised.

Correct; his body knows not to waste resources on an organ that isn't working.

 

[Driedsoap]

Actually...... if you'd had bothered to read...

You misunderstand. I've not claimed he wasn't necrotized, It was a brief point about the level of severity for a brain to suffer versus another part of your body. It's very serious once your brain is injured, and outcome depends on many factors. Once he is unplugged he will die as soon as his breathing stops.

 

[discombobulated]

You misunderstand. I've not claimed he wasn't necrotized, It was a brief point about the level of severity for a brain to suffer versus another part of your body. It's very serious once your brain is injured, and outcome depends on many factors. Once he is unplugged he will die as soon as his breathing stops.

Well, he's legally been declared dead from the 31st of May, so congrats on achieving zombie level.


The mother is now saying he was only deprived of oxygen for 3 minutes.

She found him, attempted to loosen the ligature, ran downstairs, called for help, ran back upstairs, snapped the ligature, ran back downstairs (since he'd fallen when the ligature snapped), started administering CPR. At some point during that she also called for emergency services. The ambulance arrived 8 minutes after the call was connected.
Archie did not display any breathing activity until after they had reached a hospital.

Is she actually claiming that all happened in the space of 3 minutes?

I did see somewhere her claim that he breathed when she cut him down. So why would she perform CPR on someone who was breathing?

 

[Quack_Quack]

You misunderstand. I've not claimed he wasn't necrotized, It was a brief point about the level of severity for a brain to suffer versus another part of your body. It's very serious once your brain is injured, and outcome depends on many factors. Once he is unplugged he will die as soon as his breathing stops.

Not true. IF you had read, he is already legally declared dead. By midday on the 31st May. At the moment he is basically a corpse on a machine. There is no discernable life. Everything is machine-based. Once he is off machines everything will stop, yes there is no denying that. But he is, in fact, by the laws that govern the country he and I live in, he is dead. Unquestionably, with none of the minutiae you seem to be so concerned with.

 

[A tree]

You misunderstand. I've not claimed he wasn't necrotized, It was a brief point about the level of severity for a brain to suffer versus another part of your body. It's very serious once your brain is injured, and outcome depends on many factors. Once he is unplugged he will die as soon as his breathing stops.

A minute ago you said he wasn't dead until his heart stops of its own accord. Now you say it counts as dead when it's stopped because the ventilation was withdrawn. But you said it wasnt the ventilation keeping him alive. You said it was the heart and circulation.

So you now accept that the continuation of the heart beat is dependent on the continuation of ventilation and therefore the heart is not beating of its own accord, it is beating because a machine is artificially creating the conditions for it to beat.

Therefore the defining physical factor in whether he is alive is is the breath not the heart. the heart is therefore not self sustaining, it is dependent on its oxygen supply which comes from a machine and therefore the boy is not alive.

This is why the final brain death test they wanted to perform is the apnoea test but they couldn't perform it because he was TOO DEAD.

And this is all just reductio ad absurdium.

 

[Driedsoap]

A minute ago you said he wasn't dead until his heart stops of its own accord. Now you say it counts as dead when it's stopped because the ventilation was withdrawn. But you said it wasnt the ventilation keeping him alive. You said it was the heart and circulation.

So you now accept that the continuation of the heart beat is dependent on the continuation of ventilation and therefore the heart is not beating of its own accord, it is beating because a machine is artificially creating the conditions for it to beat.

Therefore the defining physical factor in whether he is alive is is the breath not the heart. the heart is therefore not self sustaining, it is dependent on its oxygen supply which comes from a machine and therefore the boy is not alive.

This is why the final brain death test they wanted to perform is the apnoea test but they couldn't perform it because he was TOO DEAD.

And this is all just reductio ad absurdium.

You're making up your own version of what defines life and death. Once the machines stop he will die, unless of course his body regains the ability to function on its own. That's very likely not going to happen so he'll be legally and genuinely dead based on having no measurable signs of life. I really don't know what the fuck you're arguing about.

 

[Deranged]

I think as much of a narcissist this mom is she is unplugging soon. She used to say any moment now he will be going back into the gym to perform for mommy to do gymnastic flips, and she is now saying she knows he is either a vegetable or "severely didisabled"....

People don't like to be around rotting corpses due to instinctive reasons. Maybe if people like her and Jahi's mom could be forced to be with their (dead)kids for 12 hours a day instead of soaking up media and court attention or buying luxury goods, they would wake up to the reality of the situation and take a decision. Feel bad for the kids

 

[Quack_Quack]

Well, he's legally been declared dead from the 31st of May, so congrats on achieving zombie level.


The mother is now saying he was only deprived of oxygen for 3 minutes.

She found him, attempted to loosen the ligature, ran downstairs, called for help, ran back upstairs, snapped the ligature, ran back downstairs (since he'd fallen when the ligature snapped), started administering CPR. At some point during that she also called for emergency services. The ambulance arrived 8 minutes after the call was connected.
Archie did not display any breathing activity until after they had reached a hospital.

Is she actually claiming that all happened in the space of 3 minutes?

I did see somewhere her claim that he breathed when she cut him down. So why would she perform CPR on someone who was breathing?

Well, she's commiting perjury then isn't she? Considering this is from her own statement...

On 7th April 2022 the mother found Archie suspended by his neck from the banisters in the family home. He had been away from her sight for about ten minutes. It would seem he had had a tragic accident when messing around with a dressing gown cord.
The mother managed to get him down and administered CPR. She called the ambulance service at about 4.12pm which arrived at 4.20pm and paramedics continued the CPR on their way to the hospital. When they arrived he had had a cardiac arrest and had no pulse and spontaneous circulation was only achieved at 4.48pm. During this period of cardiac arrest, it seems Archie’s brain was starved of oxygen and blood supply for a number of minutes.

I'm going to guess she last talked to him at 3:45pm - 4pm..... then she did whatever she did before seeing him and cutting him down..... Assuming she phoned the ambulance AFTER bringing him down, he would have been hanging for anywhere between ten to fifteen minutes before she noticed him, if she wasn't lying. I'd wager he was out of her sight for around half an hour, so possibly hanging for 20 minutes before she got off her phone and her arse and found him. Giving him a potential not-breathing time of anywhere between 30-50 minutes. Hypoxia can start to cause brain damage between 1-2 minutes, with it becoming deadly anywhere between 5-10 minutes. Kid was pretty much dead, barring a miracle or him not tightening the ligature correctly, meaning he slowly suffocated, so hypoxia was lengthened yet not as intense in the early stage, but has caused enough damage as to restrict oxygen flow. I'd wager that it was a slow suffocation and he went into a coma, hopefully meaning he wasn't conscious as his brain started to die. He was then in the next stages - cardiac arrest and limited bloodflow to the brain, which would have exacerbated things. IMO, he was dead by the time he hit the hospital.

 

[Driedsoap]

he was dead by the time he hit the hospital.

Thankfully the entirely of medicine has an understanding of life and death at a more nuanced level. Triaging levels of physical degradation doesn't make 1 ailment *more dead* than the other, being dead is a specific event that requires circumstances and observable realities. I posted an example with Ontario health care what defines "obviously dead" and being "deceased" and same thing applies here. Archie is on death's proverbial doorstep but he's alive currently. Soon to be dead legitimately, without having to falsify what being dead means.

 

[Garbage.Theory]

I've made my points much earlier on. The only thing that has changed is my view on Archie's miniscule chance of recovery and now accept that he is going to die from his injuries.


We're not talking about life quality, he meets the definition of being alive until such time he no longer does. That's how it works.

Spoiler: TMI Life events

I had a pet pass away last night unexpectedly. Being a rodent I guess she hid any signs of being unwell and by the time I saw her in a bad condition she was unable to swallow. Keeping her hydrated came with a risk of asphyxiation. I knew she was dead once her heart stopped - even though she may have had significant brain damage (seizure or actual fall damage) - once she was not breathing I had to acknowledge the death. Up until that point there was opportunity for recovery, even, minutely.

I am sorry about your pet.

You still haven’t answered my question about machinery though. What is it that makes him alive and on a machine when withdrawal of the machine means instant death?

The best argument that you have, the absolute best, is that the machines aren’t allowing death to happen, and I don’t agree with that. Because death of the brain is death.
Almost every other cell in the body is replaceable. Eyes, skin, even hearts can be donated. Brains cannot. There is a reason for that. If my arm gets diseased and starts rotting away, doctors cut it off and I’m still me. If I get vascular dementia and my brain gets damaged, my personality deteriorates. I stop being me.

It isn’t nice to picture our personalities as no more than a bunch of neural connections, but medicine has shown us time and time again that the brain is where “we” are. Archie is dead.

I suspect that this whole “heartbeats make life no matter what” stuff that you have been fed comes less from medicine and more from the pro-life crowd which likes to equate beating cardiac cells with life. Because if they can call Archie “alive” they can call an 8-week old fetus connected to it’s mother “alive”
I suggest really looking into where your information is coming from. The rules equating a stopped heart with death were written before artificial hearts and ventilators and are meant to inform on a body allowed to stop naturally.

 

[Shitted Scaredless]

You misunderstand. I've not claimed he wasn't necrotized, It was a brief point about the level of severity for a brain to suffer versus another part of your body. It's very serious once your brain is injured, and outcome depends on many factors. Once he is unplugged he will die as soon as his breathing stops.

He can never wake up, why do you want him to stay plugged in? He's gone. Sure the machines are keeping him breathing, but he's gone. If left plugged in He's just gonna decay into the hospital bed.

 

[Quack_Quack]

Thankfully the entirely of medicine has an understanding of life and death at a more nuanced level. Triaging levels of physical degradation doesn't make 1 ailment *more dead* than the other, being dead is a specific event that requires circumstances and observable realities. I posted an example with Ontario health care what defines "obviously dead" and being "deceased" and same thing applies here. Archie is on death's proverbial doorstep but he's alive currently. Soon to be dead legitimately, without having to falsify what being dead means.

Sorry, but this isn't Ontario. This is the UK, there are different rules and Codes of Conduct in place to discern brain death. THIS is the NHS's guidelines for brain death:

The doctors will run a series of tests. Both doctors have to agree on the results for a diagnosis of brain death to be confirmed.

The tests are carried out twice to minimise any chance of error.

The tests used to determine brain stem death are:

• a torch is shone into both eyes to see if they react to the light
• the eye, which is usually very sensitive, is stroked with a tissue or piece of cotton wool to see if it reacts
• pressure is applied to the forehead and the nose is pinched to see if there's any movement in response
• ice-cold water is inserted into each ear, which would usually cause the eyes to move
• a thin plastic tube is placed down the windpipe to see if it provokes gagging or coughing
• the person is disconnected from the ventilator for a short period of time to see if they make any attempt to breathe on their own

Brain death is diagnosed if a person fails to respond to all of these tests.

Occasionally, a person's limbs or torso (the upper part of the body) may move after brain stem death.

These movements are spinal reflexes and do not involve the brain at all. They will not change the diagnosis of brain death.

If someone's brain dead, the damage is irreversible and, according to UK law, the person has died.

So, yes. HE IS DEAD. No minutiae, no nuances. According to the tests, according to the LAW, HE IS DEAD. So your posturing is complete and utter bollocks, as are your comprehension skills. He is not in Ontario, he is in the UK. By a series of tests by a consultant neuroradiologist, backed by a series of 1000-2000 MRI scans. HE IS DEAD.

Also, his mother is just as delusional as you are. He is officially, lawfully, medically DEAD

 

[Garbage.Theory]

You're making up your own version of what defines life and death. Once the machines stop he will die, unless of course his body regains the ability to function on its own. That's very likely not going to happen so he'll be legally and genuinely dead based on having no measurable signs of life. I really don't know what the fuck you're arguing about.

You haven’t defined death either. You linked to a bunch of legal stuff (Google diving yields more legal stuff) and started ranting about the heart. Can you link to actual medical definitions?

 

[Driedsoap]

I am sorry about your pet.

You still haven’t answered my question about machinery though. What is it that makes him alive and on a machine when withdrawal of the machine means instant death?

The best argument that you have, the absolute best, is that the machines aren’t allowing death to happen, and I don’t agree with that. Because death of the brain is death.
Almost every other cell in the body is replaceable. Eyes, skin, even hearts can be donated. Brains cannot. There is a reason for that. If my arm gets diseased and starts rotting away, doctors cut it off and I’m still me. If I get vascular dementia and my brain gets damaged, my personality deteriorates. I stop being me.

It isn’t nice to picture our personalities as no more than a bunch of neural connections, but medicine has shown us time and time again that the brain is where “we” are. Archie is dead.

I suspect that this whole “heartbeats make life no matter what” stuff that you have been fed comes less from medicine and more from the pro-life crowd which likes to equate beating cardiac cells with life. Because if they can call Archie “alive” they can call an 8-week old fetus connected to it’s mother “alive”
I suggest really looking into where your information is coming from. The rules equating a stopped heart with death were written before artificial hearts and ventilators and are meant to inform on a body allowed to stop naturally.

Let me get this out of the way: I am pro death in many ways such as euthanasia and abortion. A fetus is alive and when terminated it is killed, the decision being made is that the mother's life is more valuable and those that support abortion agree to this.

When I originally posted here I was on about my distaste of the UK, yet again, deciding when a kid needs to die because of what seems to me to be a financial motive. Does that make me a conspiratard, sure, but if resources didn't matter Archie would stay plugged in. The hospital proved that he was not in a position to be a worthwhile case to sustain on life support i.e. Kept on the machines and using NHS £.

I don't have the energy to go on about varying levels of brain injury but I agree that for the most part once there is such a high level of deterioration there will be no coming back. I have heard of freak cases with kids born with tiny portions of brain and ending up living but for the most part when your brain matter dies or you sustain a massive head injury you're going to die. Being dead requires other events to take place. The personality is and consciousness is probably gone once certain spots have declined.

 

[Sociopathic Smeghead]

once she was not breathing I had to acknowledge the death. Up until that point there was opportunity for recovery, even, minutely.

Except Archie isn't breathing, at all. It's like pumping air into a slashed tyre and claiming it's fit for purpose because it inflates for a second - the moment you stop manually putting air into that tyre, it's fucked. No amount of time will give 'opportunity for recovery.'
Even if he remains on the machines, he won't be severely brain damaged or in a vegetative state, his body will continue to decay because he's dead. His brain stem is dead so there are no signals being sent to his cells and his cells are necrotizing. Even vegetables on life support don't decay because, funnily enough, they're not actually dead, like Archie is.
I don't understand why you're so determined to keep a corpse in a hospital bed when there are so many other people who genuinely need that equipment.

 

[Driedsoap]

Sorry, but this isn't Ontario. This is the UK, there are different rules and Codes of Conduct in place to discern brain death. THIS is the NHS's guidelines for brain death:

I'm not quoting brain death it is definition for actual death. The list comes from some emergency responder guidelines so it's not something I pulled out of my ass.

 

[A tree]

Except Archie isn't breathing, at all. It's like pumping air into a slashed tyre and claiming it's fit for purpose because it inflates for a second - the moment you stop manually putting air into that tyre, it's fucked. No amount of time will give 'opportunity for recovery.'
Even if he remains on the machines, he won't be severely brain damaged or in a vegetative state, his body will continue to decay because he's dead. His brain stem is dead so there are no signals being sent to his cells and his cells are necrotizing. Even vegetables on life support don't decay because, funnily enough, they're not actually dead, like Archie is.
I don't understand why you're so determined to keep a corpse in a hospital bed when there are so many other people who genuinely need that equipment.

It's like trying to play chess with a pigeon. We've all spent far more time than this person deserved trying to explain biochemistry and physiology. They admit they're ideologically driven and are trying to prove a point that Bongland Bad. I expect underneath it all is some hot take about socialised medicine.

It's obvious they're here with a stupid agenda and are just going to derail endlessly about how their opinion on what constitutes death is more valid than the doctors actually treating the boy, the high court judge, the various medical and med adjacent people in this thread etc etc because something something tiddles died and it made them feel the big sad and in burgerland they would have kept blowing air into tiddles rotting corpse until OP had finished cry wanking about imaginary socialists.

 

[obsdj]

We're not talking about life quality, he meets the definition of being alive until such time he no longer does. That's how it works.

No. Brain death equals death. That's how it works. Unfortunately for all of us here, the year is 2022 and every fucktard dangerhair two-spirit septum-pierced crunchy granola attack helicopter with a semester or two of college and a co-op shopping card thinks they get to define existing words and concepts, including legal and medical definitions, as they see fit.

But lunacy remains, and I think I spy a few MLM huns and other chancers trying to slide into Hollies DMs

I almost hope that Hollie hooks up with Robyn (Luna's mom) for some remote Healy sessions. Almost. It would be a hoot, except for the unseemly and macabre spectacle they would both continue to make of their hopeless offspring, who deserve to have their bodies placed at rest already.