Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[That Guy Who Likes The Chili]

The executives are less worried about design than installing more on-ramps for players to spend their money. Williams mentioned that while dungeon masters comprise roughly 20% of the D&D player base, they make up “the largest share of our paying players”. An investment in digital, she posits, will allow Wizards of the Coast to “unlock the type of recurrent spending you see in digital games”.

I know this is just an anecdote and obviously not reflective of the player base of 5e, but we recently got the old group back together earlier last year and leaned hard into 5e after not playing D&D since 3.5, as a DM I went in balls deep buying all the core books and expansions on D&DBeyond so we could all play on our phones and tablets which has been a great experience. It's been neat that I can just share all the books I own with my group so nobody else had to invest in the hobby and we can all sit down and play.

The problem is now that "OneD&D" is looming on the Horizon, none of us are willing to switch to a new system,(which is shaping up to be god awful) we like our modified version of 5e with various 3.5 additives, in fact, D&Dbeyond has become too restrictive to the point we are going back to pen and paper for the next Campaign and dropping "Beyond" altogether. There's no way in hell any of us are going to be investing $60+ a book into a new increasingly hostile system that has less and less to offer us.

I don't even really see who their target market is supposed to be anymore, hell aside from the initial investment in the core books all of my money spent on "D&D" has gone to my 3D printer to print minis and buy STL files and resin and paints and grid maps along with other non WoTC/Hasbro products.

 

[Wormy]

The CSA is icky and evil. Its CURRENT YEAR so we need to remove them from the game world.

Official Savage Worlds Facebook Group | Hey friends! Let's talk about today's Deadlands announcement

Hey friends! Let's talk about today's Deadlands announcement. I'm going to try and keep it short, but...we'll see. (Edit: I failed. :) ) First off, the ultimate decision for the CSA to fall in the...

www.facebook.com

Never mind how the SW version went out of it's way to emphasize that, and I quote, "In light of the new threats humanity faces, man has realized that racial hatred is foolish. Racism in Deadlands is limited to a few pathetic and ignorant souls.""

Oh well, I'll always have my early editions....

 

[Gingervitis]

At the risk of sounding like a shill, a guy I share a discord with (incidentally, the same one I share with Mr Welch) is making a game that’s 5e but with the best parts of other editions grafted onto it. I can’t show you it because I don’t want to show you something that’s such a work in progress atm, but it’s based off of this video.

 

[Hikaru86]

So, i found this while browsing for something to buy for Xmas. Bruh.

Edit: But, wait! There is more!

 

[robobobo]

The CSA was fucked from day one, I don't object to them losing the war in Deadlands. I object to them being retconned as being retarded enough to attempt to continue the war when literal demons are everywhere. Both sides had way bigger issues on their plates than the war at that point, and making the confederates stupidly try to resume the war solely so they could get bitched down and the authors could pat themselves on the backs for being on the right side of history is dumb.

If the retcon had been 'The confederates realized that being split off from the north while hell was invading the earth was mutual suicide and opted to call off the whole secession thing', I'd have had no objections.

 

[Seven Devil Wolf]

It's a damn shame too, because with the release of the newest edition, I really wanted to go hard on Deadlands. I usually run something like Rippers or Lankhmar with SW, but I thought I'd expand a biit to support them.

Every time the authors turn out to be absolute, condescending shitheels who make me feel bad for ever wanting to support them and their work.

 

[ZMOT]

Even my normie consoomer friend who only plays 5e because its what's current and is afraid of piracy stills knows about and uses 5etools. All the hyper monetizing they seem to be pushing for will just make more and more normal people who would otherwise buy their products move to those compendium sites like 5etools to get the content for free.

Though honestly I want this the be a massive screw up. Last time Hasbro made stupid monetary decisions around D&D we finally broke out of the plague of everything being made in the d20 System for a few years. Hopefully this will cause a schism similar to that and kill all the 5e but X that have spread all over and people will either start using systems more appropriate for their goals or even invent their own.

that only works as long as those tools are officially and easily available. who's gonna go into lawfare over some character generator/database even if they're perfectly legal?
same for when dnd shit it's pants, even a fucking shitheap like star wars epIX made a billion, there's a LOT of inertia and brand recognition still in for normies to spend their money on it for years before they wise up. they're normies after all, otherwise they wouldn't play something like 5e to begin with.

 

[Wormy]

The CSA was fucked from day one, I don't object to them losing the war in Deadlands. I object to them being retconned as being retarded enough to attempt to continue the war when literal demons are everywhere. Both sides had way bigger issues on their plates than the war at that point, and making the confederates stupidly try to resume the war solely so they could get bitched down and the authors could pat themselves on the backs for being on the right side of history is dumb.

There is one plot-related out for that; Wasn't Jefferson Davis possessed by a demon, and the actual Jefferson Davis really did want to stop hostilities? If JD really was in the thrall of the monsters, then it would make sense he'd want the bloodshed to keep going to further raise the fear levels of the land.

Something tells me it wasn't that sensible though.

 

[Snekposter]

There is one plot-related out for that; Wasn't Jefferson Davis possessed by a demon, and the actual Jefferson Davis really did want to stop hostilities? If JD really was in the thrall of the monsters, then it would make sense he'd want the bloodshed to keep going to further raise the fear levels of the land.

Something tells me it wasn't that sensible though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Roads_Conference
Na, IRL JD wanted to keep on fighting to the bitter end because... reasons.

 

[Wormy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Roads_Conference
Na, IRL JD wanted to keep on fighting to the bitter end because... reasons.

I am not shocked in the least. I mean, why keep up with the established meta narrative when you can fuck it in the ass to score imaginary points with people who won't play the game anyway?

 

[Ghostse]

Exactly how leftoid has Steve Jackson gotten?

Used the company blog to sob about Roe V. Wade

Daily Illuminator: Roe v. Wade

I know I was not alone in my anger when the Supreme Court ignored precedent, decency, and the majority voice, and overturned Roe v. Wade . . .

www.sjgames.com

No comments about supreme court overreach when states were told they couldn't set marriage policy, or when they prevented the president from implementing immigration policy unless its allowing illegal aliens to remain in the country.

When this caused turmoil on his forums, discussion was shut down and the usual "this isn't an airport" crap from the people who are usually the most vocal flouncers.

https://kiwifarms.pa/attachments/sjg-png.3482293/

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

Ver archivo adjunto 4042428
So, i found this while browsing for something to buy for Xmas. Bruh.Ver archivo adjunto 4042449
Edit: But, wait! There is more!

Ah, Otherverse: America; ran a campaign in that setting before, surprising amount of fun if you play as one of the "evil Lifers" fighting against the "morally pure Choicers". Seriously, Field is a fucking lunatic; does that man have anything in his life outside of an obsession with sex?

Also, question: what setting is the second book - The Heavy Fucking Galaxy - supposed to be from? Is it Otherverse as well, or...?

Never mind how the SW version went out of it's way to emphasize that, and I quote, "In light of the new threats humanity faces, man has realized that racial hatred is foolish. Racism in Deadlands is limited to a few pathetic and ignorant souls.""

Oh well, I'll always have my early editions....

Never got into Deadlands before; are the devs really retconning the backstory to go from "The CSA abandoned their racism to focus on fighting demons" to "The CSA was totally racist and deserved to get wiped out, guys!"? That's just... retarded as fuck. They had a perfectly valid "current year" backstory beforehand, so why the hell are they getting rid of a fairly interesting setting twist in favor of the current trite? It's not "progressive" if we were already there beforehand.

 

[robobobo]

Basically, yes. The original was that the civil war had ground to a halt and that the dire circumstances had forced the CSA to end slavery. But it became unacceptable and not-safe-spacey for the CSA to continue to exist in any form, the writer made a bunch of statements about how "the table wasn't welcoming" to black players or whatever so retconning the story was preferable to causing them discomfort. It seems to me that if I was black and went to play Deadlands and the other people at the table broke out grey caps and white hoods and started whistling Dixieland, the problem is the players rather than the setting, but that's just me.

 

[Bloitzhole]

as a DM I went in balls deep buying all the core books and expansions on D&DBeyond so we could all play on our phones and tablets which has been a great experience. It's been neat that I can just share all the books I own with my group so nobody else had to invest in the hobby and we can all sit down and play.

The problem is now that "OneD&D" is looming on the Horizon, none of us are willing to switch to a new system,(which is shaping up to be god awful) we like our modified version of 5e with various 3.5 additives, in fact, D&Dbeyond has become too restrictive to the point we are going back to pen and paper for the next Campaign and dropping "Beyond" altogether. There's no way in hell any of us are going to be investing $60+ a book into a new increasingly hostile system that has less and less to offer us.

I get your stance, but my assumption is that from Hasbro's POV you are viewed as the expendable early adopter of digital DnD, while the largest potential audience to milk are those who have not yet switched to digital due to what I would consider some large inconveniences:
I got back into DnD after a long time a couple of months ago and am using Beyond and Roll20 because my old friends are split up all over and we can't be in the same location. If Beyond integrates a Roll20 type map with a better UI, I'll be a lot more likely to give them cash and intuitively, I think a large amount of players are the same, though I could be wrong and just projecting my own biases of course.

I also seem to be the odd DM out because I rather like the simplification/accessibility of 5e - most of my friends are in a very career driven phase of their life and would probably not have joined if the barrier of entry, complexity wise, had even been only a smidgen higher.

Frankly, if they add a digital code to every physical core book of the next edition, I'll probably buy them, which would be the first time since 3.5
The woke shit doesn't matter, since the beauty of pen and paper is the fact that if I want racial divides and always-evil devils in my setting, there fucking will be.

 

[Ghostse]

I get your stance, but my assumption is that from Hasbro's POV you are viewed as the expendable early adopter of digital DnD, while the largest potential audience to milk are those who have not yet switched to digital due to what I would consider some large inconveniences:
I got back into DnD after a long time a couple of months ago and am using Beyond and Roll20 because my old friends are split up all over and we can't be in the same location. If Beyond integrates a Roll20 type map with a better UI, I'll be a lot more likely to give them cash and intuitively, I think a large amount of players are the same, though I could be wrong and just projecting my own biases of course.

I also seem to be the odd DM out because I rather like the simplification/accessibility of 5e - most of my friends are in a very career driven phase of their life and would probably not have joined if the barrier of entry, complexity wise, had even been only a smidgen higher.

Frankly, if they add a digital code to every physical core book of the next edition, I'll probably buy them, which would be the first time since 3.5
The woke shit doesn't matter, since the beauty of pen and paper is the fact that if I want racial divides and always-evil devils in my setting, there fucking will be.

WotC and Roll20 both hate you, though.

Everyone wants you on a subscription because you own nothing (and you'll be happy) where they can change the content, terms, anything at their whim. No more concerns about copies of Legends of the Five Rings floating out there ready to embarrass you like a digital remaster of Song of the South. So everyone says "I'll run my campaign the way I want" before giving everything to Wizards where the next time you open Keep on the Borderlands, you might not remember the module being about about a bunch of transsexual orcs running a coffee shop you have to use community activism to keep safe from racist bigots - but that's what it is about now.

 

[robobobo]

Subscription services can get fucked in general. I used to use Fantasy Grounds for remote GMing and switched to Foundry more recently since it's solid and doesn't require the players to run a client program to connect. Both of them are one-time purchase buys and not an eternal milking machine like Roll20 and D&D One.

 

[ZMOT]

Subscription services can get fucked in general. I used to use Fantasy Grounds for remote GMing and switched to Foundry more recently since it's solid and doesn't require the players to run a client program to connect. Both of them are one-time purchase buys and not an eternal milking machine like Roll20 and D&D One.

this, at this point I dunno why people still stick with rofl20 unless they depend on the random 5e game there. but who in his right mind would wanna suffer through that? iirc there are also a few free exclusive 5e VTTs if that's the only thing you play.

Frankly, if they add a digital code to every physical core book of the next edition, I'll probably buy them, which would be the first time since 3.5
The woke shit doesn't matter, since the beauty of pen and paper is the fact that if I want racial divides and always-evil devils in my setting, there fucking will be.

not gonna happen. you didn't get codes for MTGO when they sold sealed boosters (so people can't snap the code with their camera or outright redeem them in the store), you certainly won't get those in books to be browsed in barnes&noble. they gonna make you rebuy everything because WOTC knows you will.

TTRPGs are also not live-service videogames. sure, there are a lot of 5e casuals who only play WOTC stuff, but given the work people already have to put in to make it work, the second it becomes too expensive/too much of a hassle they'll either use other sources (like old dnd stuff) or go full homebrew (if they have to fix WOTC's shit anyway).
and even if they go with roll20 or whatever and lock that down so people "have" to buy only from them, this is also not how TTRPGs are played. the second people want to add their own stuff, or even fixes for official crap, they gonna use a platform that's more open and let's then do it. you can't have a VTT like a live-service videogame, because there's a certain amount of open-ness required, if not expected (and it would also mean WOTC would have to REALLY step up the quality of their official material, which we both know they won't).
you can also throw sharing right out of the window too. one of your players wants to use something not in the PBH? he better open his wallet so it's unlocked on his account (while the sub is running).

and yes, that means you WILL have to use their races and anything else, that's part of the idea. you aren't a bigot who want to exclude their diverse updates from your gametable, right?

 

[Hikaru86]

Ah, Otherverse: America; ran a campaign in that setting before, surprising amount of fun if you play as one of the "evil Lifers" fighting against the "morally pure Choicers". Seriously, Field is a fucking lunatic; does that man have anything in his life outside of an obsession with sex?

No. His Magical Realms have Magical Realms at point.

Also, question: what setting is the second book - The Heavy Fucking Galaxy - supposed to be from? Is it Otherverse as well, or...?

Yes and No. Because Chris LOVES Multisplat Crossover (of Madness), Heavy Fucking Galaxy is a splat book for his Galaxy Command setting, who used not be so "Magical" for Chris' standards, but he make a update for it and becomes "Mass Effect: SFM Porn Edition" in Galaxy Command: Heavy Command, with rules for Pathfinder 1e. uBt really is for d20 modern, its pretty much shit from Black Tokyo and Otherverse copypated to hell and back.

I still wonder why he not tried to update the system for Starfinder or something that makes more sense. But we are talking about "Mrs. Shit Armor" here, so, he probably too much autistic and retarded to do that.

 

[Wormy]

Never got into Deadlands before; are the devs really retconning the backstory to go from "The CSA abandoned their racism to focus on fighting demons" to "The CSA was totally racist and deserved to get wiped out, guys!"? That's just... retarded as fuck. They had a perfectly valid "current year" backstory beforehand, so why the hell are they getting rid of a fairly interesting setting twist in favor of the current trite? It's not "progressive" if we were already there beforehand.

If they really wanted to have the CSA fall, it would have been easy really. Just have the still demon possessed Jefferson Davis go completely off the rails, start ordering Johnny Rebs into suicidal meatgrinders, CSA generals and territories give Richmond a vote of no confidence and descend into bickering factions as individual states go into business for themselves and some true believers try in vain to keep the Confederacy on the same page, all while the Horseman of War reaps the spiritual fuel and all kinds of new ghost rock veins suddenly sprout up.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

If they really wanted to have the CSA fall, it would have been easy really. Just have the still demon possessed Jefferson Davis go completely off the rails, start ordering Johnny Rebs into suicidal meatgrinders, CSA generals and territories give Richmond a vote of no confidence and descend into bickering factions as individual states go into business for themselves and some true believers try in vain to keep the Confederacy on the same page, all while the Horseman of War reaps the spiritual fuel and all kinds of new ghost rock veins suddenly sprout up.

Ah, but that would require them to (a) actually write something beyond REEEEE CSA BAD, and (b) it might lend moral legitimacy to some members of the Confederacy, and they can't have that! They are all doubleplusungood!

(This is darkly amusing in light of my recent post in the SJW thread bringing up how Richmond just exhumed and exiled the bones of A.P. Hill.)