Stranger Things

[StarkRavingMad]

Thinking about this season more, and ... I can't be the only one who is completely and utterly offput by what the kid actors were physically asked to do when filming?

I mean, imagine being a director telling children to pretend that something is being forced into their mouths. What parent in their right mind would let their child film scenes like that? And I'm wondering if the child actors and their parents didn't know what exactly was going to be CGI'd in during post-production? Imagine being a parent not knowing what was going to be the final product and watching the final product is how you find out-- by seeing CGI tentacles, of all things, being forced into children's mouths. I would be going scorched earth on Netflix.

I mean, we've seen child actors be in media that is made for adults. Take Aliens, for example. Aliens didn't actually include a scene where Newt (or her brother, or any other child) were being impregnated by the face hugger though. And not showing that stuff doesn't take away from the suspense or urgency of that movie whatsoever.

It's just really skeevy to actually be actually showing this stuff and to be asking kids to film this stuff. I dunno, actually seeing it just rubs me the wrong way and it frankly pisses me off. And Hollywood pretends to wonder why so many child actors grow up to be trainwrecks? Come on.

I can't be the only one who finds these very specific choices weird, right?

 

[LonelyEggRoll]

I can't be the only one who finds these very specific choices weird, right?

Stephen King was probably watching at home, calling the Duffer Brothers pussies for using the visual metaphor of huge phallic tubes to shove in pre-pubescent kids’ faces in Vecna’s Lair.

He didn’t mess around in his day in the sewers and went straight to ‘defeat Pennywise with child orgy’.

That was the real 1980s, baby! COCAINE!!

 

[Kether]

So you have a funny plot development with a kid who likes girls but keeps turning them off because of his faggot mannerisms.

i'd have assumed thats where they were going, plenty of men especially in the arts has had that experience. You'd think they'd try that so he can be a "reddit surrogate"

Fringe was actually created by the Lost guys, but thankfully they only did the pilot before the keys were turned over to actual writers. If only something like that happened for Stranger Things so at least one kid would not have been groomed.

fringe has a similar thing to 12 monkeys or person of interest, where because its a mid level "cult classic" its allowed to follow through its story to mostly the end. same way babylon 5 is relatively perfect compared to the other 90s space operas. Its not big enough to have the execs nosing their way in while also not being small enough to get cancelled outright.

Their viewship was such that they could end it on their own terms. The guy who made The Wire had a similar level of viewship on his shows and a combination of that and always turning in shows on time and under budget and not pissing off the executives was a big reason he was one of the longest people involved in HBO

Something like Lost would never be able to end well because its so big, JJ Abrams and the other creators should have kept to doing cable shows, Alias was hated and mocked throughout its run because of its mystery box bullshit but it was a "monster of the week" style show, Felecity and Fringe and Person of interest all have a better reception because they weren't big enough for executives to demand they keep making shows.

If only something like that happened for Stranger Things so at least one kid would not have been groomed.

Netflix wouldn't have allowed it to exist if it weren't this core cast forever. they're not going to allow that anthology bullshit, which would have been the only way ST could have been "good"

It's just really skeevy to actually be actually showing this stuff and to be asking kids to film this stuff.

you're only saying this because you've spent so much time on this site you assume the worst out of everyone and you're a mother. I'm sure you've never said it was skeevy to talk so much about sex in the halloween classic Hocus Pocus. How about all the cursing and risky humor done in The Goonies? Behind the scenes of most horror films its a lot sillier because a lot of it is added in post. I'm sure they were practically laughing their asses off filming it. The kid from the shining didn't even realize it was a horror film. its rarely traumatizing for kids to film horror films because its such a sterile set, they aren't playing the music and seeing the edits when they're shooting.

That doesn't even get into the weird, skeevy stuff kids naturally do on their own, remember how much uproar there was from Lena Dunham talking about the things she'd do with her sister?

in the Tom Cruise War of the Worlds film, he's practically sucked up what looks like an anus near the end all while dakota fanning's character watches, no one talks about how skeevy that is either, and very few thought it was weird when it happened.

Life is Beautiful and the other holocaust films are another big thing you'd assume would trip your radar, imagine how fucked it would be telling a bunch of little kids to take off their clothes and get in a group shower for a film, but because its about the holocaust everyone is a-ok with it. the boy in the stripped pjs literally has that scene. but again, it doesn't trip your radar

 

[LonelyEggRoll]

Netflix wouldn't have allowed it to exist if it weren't this core cast forever. they're not going to allow that anthology bullshit

American Horror Story does anthology with many of the same cast time and time again playing different roles each season.
Ryan Murphy even uses the AHS cast in his other projects, Crime Story, etc.

Mike Flanagan, again uses the same cast in his projects playing different characters in each project.
It works, and can even make being a fan of a certain director fun to see how they will use a certain actor who has been a quiet, passive character in the story before, suddenly a dark, manipulative character in the next season.

The Duffers could have made Stranger Things an anthology like they said they wanted to if they had the balls, and kept the same cast, they just didn’t have the imagination to write anything except this story, which as we’ve talked about in this thread, they’ve allegedly stole the plot of from other people in the first place.

 

[AssignedEva]

I gave up on this show after S2 admittedly, I tried to get through s3 and even watched just a little of s4 and while the first 2 seasons weren't entirely perfect they had a charm to them that kept me coming back. Season 3 was where the problems began and Season 4 was where I think it started to get buck wild.

I actually really liked Season 3, although tonally it was a big shift. It was a silly confection of a season that really embraced the optimistic vibe of an idealised 80s America, and the plot ("evil soviets have built a base under the mall!") was fun. This scene always sticks out to me:

At the same time it still managed to feel high stakes. Even some of the side plots like Karen deciding not to cheat on her husband (meaning she unknowingly saved her own life) felt compelling.
Season 4 was where the rot started to creep in a bit for me. Saving Hopper was a mistake, and I got exasperated every time the show went "now back to Hopper in the Russian gulag". I also disliked that they basically undid Eleven's character development towards becoming a normal teenage girl and back to being a semi-verbal outcast. But there were enough interesting threads, including killing off sympathetic characters (that they blundered into, the Duffers said they shot that scene with Chrissy and Eddie quite late into development, and if they'd realised how likable Chrissy was then they'd have kept her alive). Not to mention the "villain" being a popular jock who was actually making very reasonable inferences about the Hellfire Club killing people with demonic worship, based on the information he had available to him.
Season 5 had the potential to be really good right up to the moment where they went "the Upside Down breaking through into the real world wasn't that big a deal, the military just put metal sheets over the rift and everything's pretty much normal again".

American Horror Story does anthology with many of the same cast time and time again playing different roles each season.
Ryan Murphy even uses the AHS cast in his other projects, Crime Story, etc.

Mike Flanagan, again uses the same cast in his projects playing different characters in each project.
It works, and can even make being a fan of a certain director fun to see how they will use a certain actor who has been a quiet, passive character in the story before, suddenly a dark, manipulative character in the next season.

The Duffers could have made Stranger Things an anthology like they said they wanted to if they had the balls, and kept the same cast, they just didn’t have the imagination to write anything except this story, which as we’ve talked about in this thread, they’ve allegedly stole the plot of from other people in the first place.

The reason it worked for American Horror Story and Mike Flanagan shows (The Haunting of Hill House, The Haunting of Bly Manor, Midnight Mass) is each installment is its own universe. Murder House had nothing to do with Asylum or Coven, because the plots were entirely unrelated. So there's no confusion for the audience.*
The idea for a Stranger Things anthology is that Season 1 was a self contained story, and then Season 2 onwards would be their own self contained stories in the same setting. So S1 followed Eleven and the kids, Season 2 would have been set in the 90s following different characters who also interacted with the threat of the Upside Down. You could have cameos between seasons, so maybe Hopper would still be the sheriff, but wouldn't play a leading role. So having the same actors play different characters wouldn't really work.
*In later seasons Ryan Murphy fucked this up to appease theory youtubers and redditors who thought American Horror Story would function like the MCU, and so ended up creating a stupidly contradictory show because the "rules" of some seasons conflicted with the "rules" of others, and then the writing got so bad that a lot of his regular actors ended up refusing to perform in more seasons.

 

[SHITTAHS CLOGGED!]

I made the mistake of watching the whole series right before the final season and doing this really highlights how the "rules" change so much and so often that any tight explanation was impossible. It was fresh on my mind that the Mind Flayer spoke a few times and it clearly struggled to understand human language and behavior. I was waiting for this to be reconciled with a hivemind that includes human Henry, but it was never brought up at all. In fact, almost nothing from seasons 2 and 3 is ever mentioned again.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

I made the mistake of watching the whole series right before the final season and doing this really highlights how the "rules" change so much and so often that any tight explanation was impossible. It was fresh on my mind that the Mind Flayer spoke a few times and it clearly struggled to understand human language and behavior. I was waiting for this to be reconciled with a hivemind that includes human Henry, but it was never brought up at all. In fact, almost nothing from seasons 2 and 3 is ever mentioned again.

Seasons 1, 2 and 3 and seasons 4 and 5 feel like they belong to two different shows. In the first 3 the Upside Down is basically this messed-up mirror dimension where eldritch abominations dwell beyond human comprehension and in the last 2 it's basically just a playground for a crazy psychic dude who rules everything.

 

[SHITTAHS CLOGGED!]

Seasons 1, 2 and 3 and seasons 4 and 5 feel like they belong to two different shows. In the first 3 the Upside Down is basically this messed-up mirror dimension where eldritch abominations dwell beyond human comprehension and in the last 2 it's basically just a playground for a crazy psychic dude who rules everything.

There was a confusing scene in episode 2 where Will says "it was always him" and seems to imply it was Vecna who possessed him in season 2. No other scene goes quite that far, but they are so skittish to mention the Mind Flayer even when it's relevant that I would almost believe there was some sort of legal embargo where they have to pay out every time they say it.

 

[Solid Snek]

OH OK

So I'm going through the last season now, and I was starting to type this whole thing about how I felt like this whole season was about grooming and childhood sexual abuse, and all the reasons I was getting a grooming vibe, starting from that very first scene where Will gets mouthraped by Vecna and turned into a child procurement agent (both metaphorically and literally).

There was a LOT of grooming subtext.

But I'm not even going to bother posting all that, since I just got to the second-to-last episode, where they flat out admit that, yeah, this whole season was about Will getting raped and groomed into deviancy.

There's only one episode left now. Please tell me none of the kids troon out before then, that's all I ask.

 

[madethistocomment]

OH OK

So I'm going through the last season now, and I was starting to type this whole thing about how I felt like this whole season was about grooming and childhood sexual abuse, and all the reasons I was getting a grooming vibe, starting from that very first scene where Will gets mouthraped by Vecna and turned into a child procurement agent (both metaphorically and literally).

There was a LOT of grooming subtext.

But I'm not even going to bother posting all that, since I just got to the second-to-last episode, where they flat out admit that, yeah, this whole season was about Will getting raped and groomed into deviancy.

There's only one episode left now. Please tell me none of the kids troon out before then, that's all I ask.

I always thought that scene in season 2 where Will tells Joyce about how the Mind Flayer "got him" was startlingly similar to how a kid might describe the aftershocks of sexual abuse. With the series being a coming of age story and a big thematic undercurrent of it being the loss of childhood and innocence, I think the Upside-Down and all its assorted creepiness being an allegory for CSA works well, at least before the Marvelization of season 3 hit.

The allegory also fits with the 1980's setting, imo, since it was around this time that a ton of high-profile child kidnappings and murders happened and we started sticking kids' faces on milk cartons and making shows like America's Most Wanted. Reflects the growing attitude of the times.

(Also dw nobody troons out)

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

https://x.com/litteralyme0/status/2008563549304746213

 

[StarkRavingMad]

you're only saying this because you've spent so much time on this site you assume the worst out of everyone and you're a mother. I'm sure you've never said it was skeevy to talk so much about sex in the halloween classic Hocus Pocus. How about all the cursing and risky humor done in The Goonies? Behind the scenes of most horror films its a lot sillier because a lot of it is added in post. I'm sure they were practically laughing their asses off filming it. The kid from the shining didn't even realize it was a horror film. its rarely traumatizing for kids to film horror films because its such a sterile set, they aren't playing the music and seeing the edits when they're shooting.

Hocus Pocus sucks, and I hate it. lol. I was always annoyed with the "a VIRGIN lit the candle" gag. You claim that I'm assuming shit when you assume that I love Hocus Pocus because I'm a mom? Mkay.

And as for The Goonies, I think there is a huge difference between kids being filmed cursing and kids being filmed to pretend having something phallic shoved into their mouths (especially giving the overtness of the "child grooming" themes with Vecna). False equivalencies.

That doesn't even get into the weird, skeevy stuff kids naturally do on their own, remember how much uproar there was from Lena Dunham talking about the things she'd do with her sister?

So you excuse what Lena Dunham admitted to? I will not be gaslit into thinking what she did is remotely okay. You do realize that Dunham's sister grew up to become a lesbian, right? Something really bad happened with those kids and it's not okay.

in the Tom Cruise War of the Worlds film, he's practically sucked up what looks like an anus near the end all while dakota fanning's character watches, no one talks about how skeevy that is either, and very few thought it was weird when it happened.

Again you're assuming. I've never seen the Tom Cruise War of the Worlds, so I can't speak for that.

Life is Beautiful and the other holocaust films are another big thing you'd assume would trip your radar, imagine how fucked it would be telling a bunch of little kids to take off their clothes and get in a group shower for a film, but because its about the holocaust everyone is a-ok with it. the boy in the stripped pjs literally has that scene. but again, it doesn't trip your radar

Again. Assuming. lol. I haven't seen Life is Beautiful in decades, when I was a kid myself. I'm sure if I saw it as an adult, that scene would stand out, and I'd be rightfully skeeved about it.

"Other pieces of media do it, so why be mad here?" is a weird talking point but okay. lol. I guess all of the stuff that Dan Schneider from Nickelodeon made kids film is nothing to raise an eyebrow at then?

 

[Quijibo69]

The idea for a Stranger Things anthology is that Season 1 was a self contained story, and then Season 2 onwards would be their own self contained stories in the same setting. So S1 followed Eleven and the kids, Season 2 would have been set in the 90s following different characters who also interacted with the threat of the Upside Down. You could have cameos between seasons, so mayk.be Hopper would still be the sheriff, but wouldn't play a leading role. So having the same actors play different characters wouldn't really wor

This is why I quit watching after season 1. They should have gone the anthology route.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

OH OK

So I'm going through the last season now, and I was starting to type this whole thing about how I felt like this whole season was about grooming and childhood sexual abuse, and all the reasons I was getting a grooming vibe, starting from that very first scene where Will gets mouthraped by Vecna and turned into a child procurement agent (both metaphorically and literally).

There was a LOT of grooming subtext.

But I'm not even going to bother posting all that, since I just got to the second-to-last episode, where they flat out admit that, yeah, this whole season was about Will getting raped and groomed into deviancy.

There's only one episode left now. Please tell me none of the kids troon out before then, that's all I ask.

Something else that I just remembered is that when Will gets dragged into Vecna's lair in the flashbacks the weather is also all dark and stormy like in the Upside Down. Except as we now know, Vecna's lair in located in Dimension X where it's basically a sunny, dry desert. So what happened there?

 

[Quijibo69]

It's after midnight, that new Stranger Things episode will come out any second now....

Hard cord fans right now:

 

[LonelyEggRoll]

The biggest proof for no new episode is that they said there would be the use of the song used nowhere else ever before in the finale, which turned out to be the Prince song.

This mass delusion happened before, when fans were unhappy with the conclusion of the BBC’s Sherlock series and were convinced the next week’s listing was to be a secret final episode, only to find it was indeed some new, basic show ‘Apple Tree Yard’, as listed in the schedule.



Tumblr was awash with the same cryptic clues and hints found littered throughout Sherlock’s previous episodes, convincing themselves the disappointing finale (where ironically I think also they wanted Sherlock and his male companion to kiss and it didn’t happen!) was a fake out, and that the real, true final, episode written by the genius Steven Moffat was on its way.

Funny how a decade later it’s happening again.

 

[AssignedEva]

The conspiracy theory about "Conformity Gate" super secret ending is more entertaining than the actual show.
Example schizoposts:

Important extra points: they used the word TRAITOR to describe season 5, THERE WAS NO TRAITOR.

They also said "Pay attention" regarding this season, Lucas "I don't know about you guys but i dont believe in coincidences". There are too many impossible to be an accident events to ignore

Extra but not as relevant: When Will is in the Abyss and gets connected to the Hive, Mike snaps him out of it by calling out his name, and tho he runs first to Will and extends his hand to touch him he stops. Theres no other way to explain than it literally looks like theres a force field stopping him, or some form or force. Its not natural.

In this very moment WSQK still referencing making things right, things making no sense, forgetting things and Mindy even talks about "if youre having issues receiving signals check if your receiver is connected to the Flux Capacitor" (back to the future), which they would have no reason to keep referencing if the show is over

Extra extra: they keep referencing puzzles and pieces of the puzzle missing, incomplete puzzles. In vol2 Hopper says there's a missing piece of the puzzle, which mike replies saying the puzzle piece is in Vecna's mind. We literally didnt see this happen, the puzzle looked complete.

Forgot to mention Mike literally never even tells his dying girlfriend he loves her

This one may be just on my language so check it yourself, the name of the episode on Netflix is The "Right"side up. WHY THE QUOTATION MARKS??? BECAUSE IT ISNT RIGHT

The point this person made: https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThingsRoom/s/78yjgQ2mLX //This plus the fact that if the supressor was on it was literally IMPOSSIBLE for El to talk to him in his mind. The literal last plot has absolutely no chance of making sense, be in Mike's theory or not

Another thing that makes no sense: Vecna getting all those kids made no sense in the end, it seemed useless?? We didnt see why they were needed at all, or why they were picked. They didnt explain what the... Tentacle thingies did. Why did he need 12 kids?? Why was Will taken first?? Why August 6???? All of these werent addressed in the show, but make sense once you consider TFS and that Will coming out scene mirrored Henry's speech to the kids (12 people in both worlds)

"Everything from the final fight onwards was actually an elaborate illusion caused by Vecna, which is why the finale felt so shitty and there were so many continuity errors and plotholes, but surprise there's actually another secret episode that's the real finale and we somehow kept it under wraps this entire time" would be a mindblowing twist ending, so I love people are clinging to that over "the last season was incredibly bad".

 

[Crescent Fresh]

"Everything from the final fight onwards was actually an elaborate illusion caused by Vecna, which is why the finale felt so shitty and there were so many continuity errors and plotholes, but surprise there's actually another secret episode that's the real finale and we somehow kept it under wraps this entire time" would be a mindblowing twist ending, so I love people are clinging to that over "the last season was incredibly bad".

The funniest part is there’s “compelling evidence” about how previous episodes/seasons set up very specific rules about coloration in Vecna’s hallucinations which were totally broken in this season, because the writers don’t care anymore.

 

[The Doom Slayer]

The conspiracy theory about "Conformity Gate" super secret ending is more entertaining than the actual show.
Example schizoposts:

It's all just cope. First time I can remember something like this happening was Mass Effect 3's "indoctrination theory". It's when an ending is so shit and anticlimactic people's brains just refuse to accept that's it.

In the end there's never any secret plan or 4D chess, it's just dogshit sloppily slapped together by retarded writers.

 

[trent]

The fact that fans of the show think there is a "secret last episode" shows how utterly fucking terrible most modern TV is.