Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Star Classic]

It's IMO the worst part of the film since I just zonk out for some of it, but it's still a decent to good film. I rate it similar to Return in some respects, since while I think Return has better segments, the weak second act puts it about at Revenge's level for me.

Honestly, I think it might be slightly above Return for me, but I really need to watch the 6 movies (+Rogue One) again to make a concrete answer on it.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

The actors were very familiar with what Lucas intended for them by then so could deliver them more firmly due to the experience; the writing is still real horrible at times (So love has blinded you right after both of you express love for example). It also isn't dragged down as much by the very fucky romance angle and it's a tighter film. Some of this was due to George paying attention to what criticisms existed then and adapting to them, as well as remembering how fucked Phantom was in the dailies.

I still have issues with it, and the big one is actually I don't like how long the final duel between Anakin and Obi Wan was. Way too long, got too ridiculous in scope, it was a predestined outcome which kills the interest, and was only that way due to George wanting to set a record for sword duels.

It's IMO the worst part of the film since I just zonk out for some of it, but it's still a decent to good film. I rate it similar to Return in some respects, since while I think Return has better segments, the weak second act puts it about at Revenge's level for me.

As for the Andor rape thing?

Like I said, I'd expect it to exist in the setting on some level. The EU's done it before, especially near the end where it went coked out post Vong. In this case, it's being used to display how crushing the grip of the empire is and the leeching of the dark side into its being when ordinary soldiers feels that they can get away with it.

I just think the journoscum article and the showrunner's dumb take for the failing media's article was a stupid decision.

One thing I think Revenge has on Jedi is that it doesn't feel like a bunch of movies crammed into one.

Like the Jabba stuff could have been it's own movie

 

[Gondolindrim]

I still say Shmi was a love slave in her youth. Which is more plausible, Palpatine had a layover on Tatooine or the Force impregnated Shmi the virgin?

Plus it was pretty heavily implied that the Tuskens were having their way with Shmi while they had her in captivity. I guess it's not the fact that rape is a thing in Andor that bothers me, it's just the context of it that feels tasteless.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

Just watched the episode.
She wasn't raped but was attempted to have been.
So all you Kiwi Karens can put your tits back in your bras

To paraphrase the cinematic masterpiece that is Billy Madison:

"That's (still) assault, brotha."

 

[Midwit]

This is such a stupid argument: "Star Wars exists, and [thing] exists, so [thing] should be in Star Wars." No concept of theme, tone, or history.

I, for one, have always wondered why Lucas didn't include a scene of Leia getting a train run on her by every Gammorean in Jabba's employ so that we could finally see why that people feared him.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

This is such a stupid argument: "Star Wars exists, and [thing] exists, so [thing] should be in Star Wars." No concept of theme, tone, or history.

Hell, you know what else exists? Especially when Disney is concerned? Gays. Next Star Wars show should have an explicit anal sex scene, complete with the guys painting each other's faces for the money shot. What's that you say? That this is a wild tonal disconnect from the Star Wars IP and diametrically opposed to the space opera beloved by millions that was once the greatest science fiction franchise in the world? Well, I don't know how to tell you this, chud, but gay people are real and have anal sex all the time, so if you can't handle realism in your sci fi, maybe you should go watch something a bit more your speed, like Paw Patrol. Star Wars is a mature franchise now, handling mature topics, and if you don't like it that just says everything i need to know about you, sweaty.

They were already both in Star Wars.

Prince Xizor attempted to rape Leia and got his balls kicked in for good measure. The only difference between that and Andor is that you're allowed to laugh at Xizor's expense.

Karen Traviss' Mandalorians had gays among them. SWTOR also added gay romances in expansions after they were originally not allowed to have gays in the base game.

If you think gays and rape are entirely new concepts to Star Wars, you haven't done your research. They were already in Star Wars Legends before the first Sequel movie came out.

 

[Powerhouse of the Cell]

Andor season 2 makes a lot of sense when you consider that season 1 was regarded as a side show to be quickly produced and discarded so Disney could have another series to shill disney+ with. The surprising positive reception by both critics and audiences means season 2 has become a prestige show where they can shove their politics and pretentious bullshit down our throats

Wow.

This ultimately explains why the side shows often ended up being the higher quality ones meanwhile the main shows always end up being mid Disney.

Now I kinda wish media journalists didn't give Andor those high ratings so it could remain a sideshow.

 

[Screamer_2]

Didn't the force rape Padme?

 

[Ghostse]

the scene wasn't too bad, the music that played over it was a little much though.
StarRape.mov

Should have played Goodbye Horses.

No, George had a plan the entire time and even started filming RotS during the filming of AotC. RotS is just a good movie and George Lucas knew what he was doing.

The only real complaint I have with RotS is Anakin's turning to the darkside was really half-assed and felt extremely rushed, and Anakin being given extremely poor motivation becoming/staying Vader.

(And I guess the opening space battle being overly chaotic and cluttered if we're really splitting hairs. And as @Adamska pointed out the final duel going on a bit too long needlessly. Additionally, it made Obi Wan look like a real fucking cockwheel to just leave Anakin to slowly burn to death; at least have like Sith forces showing up so Obi Wan is forced to flee, but also gives a chance to show his hesitation and unwillingness to kill his friend.)

This was made all the more infuriating by the fact Lucas burned episode 1 with a 9 year old so instead of getting a much more gradual set up for Anakin going full Sith.

It's like how Kelly Marie Tran is actually pretty good looking so they actively made her look fat and ugly for Rose Tico. I guess being plump and good looking is a no go in these times, nope you must wear an unflattering jumpsuit and have a bad haircut
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Brother I have a bad case of Yellow Fever and while KMT cleans up better than she was allowed to be TLJ, even with a hollywood make up artist she's still just Ok. The wrong Asian chick died on the bomber.

Is Kevin Nash going to have a guest star appearance in this show now?
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Nash should consider himself lucky. Two years earlier Bob Saget raped and killed a girl.

 

[JayseeDenton]

Just watched the episode.
She wasn't raped but was attempted to have been.
So all you Kiwi Karens can put your tits back in your bras

Just finished it myself, i do feel a bit misled, but not just by the farms but the whole internet. The youtube video cuts off just as she's being dragged.

I don't so much have a problem with the rape itself but with the obvious reasons it was inserted.

You can hear the fat green haired landwhale in the writers room if you listen closely while watching the scene
>GUYS! It's not enough to have them be an ICE/Nazi allegory! It's not enough that they blow up planets the chud HAS TO TRY AND RAPE THE BROWN WOMAN!!! All chuds are secretly obsessed with frizzy haired horse faced brown women and the only reason they want to deport them is because they want to fuck them!!!! Have him try to rape her!!! RAAAAAAAAAPE!!! RAPE RAPE RAAAPE!

I get it disney. I get that you guys REALLY FUCKING HATE how the empire has a lot of fans among the star wars community who like their aesthetics and make silly arguments about how they're justified. I get that you want to paint them as nazis and shit so that your evil mean star wars fans don't support any kind of authority (which is odd considering you pay people to walk around your park in storm trooper costumes) but can we please move past this? There is nothing more boring in 2025 than sperging about oppression and hekin facism and heckin police are bad and heck blah blah blah.

Your job is not to save the world, it's not to raise good little woke boys and girls, your job is to entertain and satisfy your nerdy fanbase and the inconvenient truth is that fanbase is chuddier than you would like to admit.

Just fucking stop.

 

[BullfrogBill]

The only real complaint I have with RotS is Anakin's turning to the darkside was really half-assed and felt extremely rushed, and Anakin being given extremely poor motivation becoming/staying Vader.

(And I guess the opening space battle being overly chaotic and cluttered if we're really splitting hairs. And as @Adamska pointed out the final duel going on a bit too long needlessly. Additionally, it made Obi Wan look like a real fucking cockwheel to just leave Anakin to slowly burn to death; at least have like Sith forces showing up so Obi Wan is forced to flee, but also gives a chance to show his hesitation and unwillingness to kill his friend.)

This was made all the more infuriating by the fact Lucas burned episode 1 with a 9 year old so instead of getting a much more gradual set up for Anakin going full Sith.

Not gonna lie, I really never understood why so many people were confused by Anakin's transformation into Vader, it feels like a lot of people just didn't pay attention to any of the previous movies.

Anakin's motivation reaches back to his mother and how he dreamt her dying every night just to see it come true as he saw it in his dreams. When he starts to see Padme dying in his dreams he knows he needs help but can't turn to the jedi who already don't trust him as it is and he knows if they found out he was married and trying to save his wife from death they would probably expel him from the order. This is why he needs to turn to Palpatine, he presents himself as the only one who trusts Anakin and will help him. Anakin is certain that the Jedi won't help him at all and this gets confirmed when Anakin comes to Yoda about it and almost confesses what's going on but Yoda just tells him the usual "let go of attachments" shit.

One scene that's in the RotS book that I wish was in the film was when Anakin discovered that the Jedi archives contain forbidden knowledge about what the force can do including stopping people from dying and it's only accessible by Jedi Masters. This is why Anakin needed to be a Jedi Master so much, it wasn't about ego or honor in his Jedi ranking or anything like that which is almost how it seems in the movie, it was because he needed access to the forbidden jedi archives to try and learn if it was possible to save Padme and he couldn't tell anyone this. When the Jedi Council made the unprecedented decision to let Anakin be on the council without giving him the rank of master for the first time just because he was Anakin and they didn't trust him, it sealed their coffin in Anakin's eyes and they lost any good faith they had with him. I never had any issues understanding this but I will agree the book does a better job at making Anakin's motivations more obvious than it was in the movie.

I also think seeing Anakin as a kid in Phantom Menace was more important to Anakin's character arc than most people give it credit for but I think we've already discussed that topic at length here in this thread as it is.

 

[Ghostse]

Not gonna lie, I really never understood why so many people were confused by Anakin's transformation into Vader, it feels like a lot of people just didn't pay attention to any of the previous movies.

I didn't feel confused, just there was a lot of "tell don't show" for as radical of a 180 as Anakin pulled and it just felt rushed and hollow. There was enough setup it wasn't a complete asspull, but for a main character arc it really just was really under delivered.

The weakest point I felt was that Anakin continues to be Vader after his disassembly and Padme dies - the ends that justify his means are gone.

 

[M3xus]

I saw that as the fact he no longer felt like he had a purpose beyond helping Palpatine, who as far as he was concerned was on the up-and-up with him and supported him all the way. His wife and unborn child(ren) are dead, but hey, Palpatine is now Emperor! And he's such a swell guy he goes through all the trouble to save him, give him artificial limbs, and put him in a life-support suit to keep him ticking. Vader probably doesn't mind being Palpatine's attack dog because it helps him ignore the grief and gives him a purpose in his friend's new Empire.

 

[BullfrogBill]

I didn't feel confused, just there was a lot of "tell don't show" for as radical of a 180 as Anakin pulled and it just felt rushed and hollow. There was enough setup it wasn't a complete asspull, but for a main character arc it really just was really under delivered.

The weakest point I felt was that Anakin continues to be Vader after his disassembly and Padme dies - the ends that justify his means are gone.

I saw that as the fact he no longer felt like he had a purpose beyond helping Palpatine, who as far as he was concerned was on the up-and-up with him and supported him all the way. His wife and unborn child(ren) are dead, but hey, Palpatine is now Emperor! And he's such a swell guy he goes through all the trouble to save him, give him artificial limbs, and put him in a life-support suit to keep him ticking. Vader probably doesn't mind being Palpatine's attack dog because it helps him ignore the grief and gives him a purpose in his friend's new Empire.

As far as Vader is concerned, Anakin Skywalker died with Padme and his child(ren).

 

[FatR]

I didn't feel confused, just there was a lot of "tell don't show" for as radical of a 180 as Anakin pulled and it just felt rushed and hollow. There was enough setup it wasn't a complete asspull, but for a main character arc it really just was really under delivered.

The weakest point I felt was that Anakin continues to be Vader after his disassembly and Padme dies - the ends that justify his means are gone.

(1)Anakin's life did not revolve entirely around Padme. After she dies Vader basically doubles down on his law and order schtick. He's no longer can usurp Palps in his condition, but he can play a snarky space knight, who flies around the galaxy and fights those who threaten peace (except now with a lot more indiscriminate murder). Not until witnessing Luke's pure unfiltered disgust on Bespin does he question his lifestyle.
(2)IIRC, RotS novellization also goes with the angle that as a Sith he would selfishly cling to life at any cost, and that Palps is the only remaining person he has any emotional connection with, however twisted.

 

[robobobo]

I've got no problem with the concept that some Imperial rando with authoritah would try to slip it in some women. What's confused me about the reports of this episode are that he's apparently trying to justify it by her being an illegal space immigrant? The fuck? The Empire claimed dominion over the entire galaxy; there is no not-Empire for someone to be an illegal space immigrant from when everybody is considered an Imperial subject. Even the Outer Rim shitholes like Tatooine were still Imperial territory as far as the Empire was concerned.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I've got no problem with the concept that some Imperial rando with authoritah would try to slip it in some women. What's confused me about the reports of this episode are that he's apparently trying to justify it by her being an illegal space immigrant? The fuck? The Empire claimed dominion over the entire galaxy; there is no not-Empire for someone to be an illegal space immigrant from when everybody is considered an Imperial subject. Even the Outer Rim shitholes like Tatooine were still Imperial territory as far as the Empire was concerned.

Its more that the person in question was not in the census pool for planets and the Empire would want to keep track of its population and make sure that they are loyal citizens than some fugitives especially with how there's more talks of a rebel with this point in the timeline and one of the mega prisons did have a massive breakout. So it does make some sense to look for those types of people

 

[Adamska]

I didn't feel confused, just there was a lot of "tell don't show" for as radical of a 180 as Anakin pulled and it just felt rushed and hollow. There was enough setup it wasn't a complete asspull, but for a main character arc it really just was really under delivered.

The weakest point I felt was that Anakin continues to be Vader after his disassembly and Padme dies - the ends that justify his means are gone.

Again, it's not his decline that I have issue with, and I'm honestly okay with him surviving and trying to linger by taking his twisted Jedi values into protecting the galaxy by ruling it. He stays alive solely for that, Creamy Sheev, and his men. It's just it makes more sense and turns out a lot better when you slot in Tartakovsky wars to help serve the bridge between Attack and Revenge and turn the run into a Quadrilogy. And that's a shit fucking take since it should be in the movies, not like this.

If you have to pull out of your head or from other works, then you're doing the things Disney hopes you do for their shit. It's a failing in the writing's core.

Also the part where he rants psychotically about how he murdered a bunch of Tuskens to Padme, who he never talked to for years until that week or so is genuinely piss poor writing that only works due to emotional draws via music. The material for it to work was not set up; this was not after months or years of drifting into a relation ship. That is why it fails IMO.

It also does not help given how hard she hated violence and how she legit just remembers him as that simping kid and only experienced him being creepy as shit in Episode 2, That more than anything should've probably ruined any chance of that relationship working.

Again, the materials are there for great stories, but it was rough and needed punching up. Also George did not always write gold.

I've got no problem with the concept that some Imperial rando with authoritah would try to slip it in some women. What's confused me about the reports of this episode are that he's apparently trying to justify it by her being an illegal space immigrant? The fuck? The Empire claimed dominion over the entire galaxy; there is no not-Empire for someone to be an illegal space immigrant from when everybody is considered an Imperial subject. Even the Outer Rim shitholes like Tatooine were still Imperial territory as far as the Empire was concerned.

Yeah that's far stupider by the by. If they framed it as something along the lines that the sector she's from are not given permission to move due to some reason, even if it's bullshit, then sure. Like you need documentation to move around to control the hyperlane movements or something. That's very Imperial to me, and would explain why smugglers thrive under their nose, and sometimes to their benefit...

But that's me doing the thing you shouldn't fucking have to do; do the writer and director's work for them since they suck at their job.

 

[draggs]

Shadows of the Empire gave the best reason for Vader sticking with the Dark Side imo, though it's mostly implied

We get a scene where Vader is in his medical pod thing doing some meditation, focusing on how assmad he is at Obi-Wan, and he uses the Dark Side to heal himself (the parts of his body he still has, it doesn't regrow the lost limbs and shit. It heals what he has left, his lungs especially.). He manages to take a breath totally unaided. It's just for an instant, and he is so happy that his hatred and bitterness evaporates, he loses the power he's getting from the Dark Side in that moment, and the healing reverses itself. Vader thinks that if he just keeps working at being super angry ALL THE TIME he will be able to heal his body and keep it healed. Losing the power when he feels happiness at succeeding implies that the Light Side can't gather the raw power to do it and the Dark Side can (and in both the OT and the EU it's said again and again that for raw power the Dark Side beats the Light Side)

Vader more than anything wants back what he thinks Obi-Wan took from him, his health. He also wants Luke for himself as his son and apprentice, he doesn't want Palpy stealing Luke from him. He thinks the only way to do those things is for him to become powerful enough in the Dark Side, he thinks the Light Side can't get the job done. Until, of course, Palpy trying to torture-murder Luke right in front of him makes him realize that the Dark Side has tricked him: fixing his body isn't the most important thing in the galaxy, and he doesn't need the Dark Side to protect Luke from Palpy and have Luke be at his side

 

[big pauper]

Shadows of the Empire gave the best reason for Vader sticking with the Dark Side imo, though it's mostly implied

We get a scene where Vader is in his medical pod thing doing some meditation, focusing on how assmad he is at Obi-Wan, and he uses the Dark Side to heal himself (the parts of his body he still has, it doesn't regrow the lost limbs and shit. It heals what he has left, his lungs especially.). He manages to take a breath totally unaided. It's just for an instant, and he is so happy that his hatred and bitterness evaporates, he loses the power he's getting from the Dark Side in that moment, and the healing reverses itself. Vader thinks that if he just keeps working at being super angry ALL THE TIME he will be able to heal his body and keep it healed. Losing the power when he feels happiness at succeeding implies that the Light Side can't gather the raw power to do it and the Dark Side can (and in both the OT and the EU it's said again and again that for raw power the Dark Side beats the Light Side)

Vader more than anything wants back what he thinks Obi-Wan took from him, his health. He also wants Luke for himself as his son and apprentice, he doesn't want Palpy stealing Luke from him. He thinks the only way to do those things is for him to become powerful enough in the Dark Side, he thinks the Light Side can't get the job done. Until, of course, Palpy trying to torture-murder Luke right in front of him makes him realize that the Dark Side has tricked him: fixing his body isn't the most important thing in the galaxy, and he doesn't need the Dark Side to protect Luke from Palpy and have Luke be at his side

palpatine entices annakin with the plagueis the wise story about the dark side being so powerful it can control life, then palpatine twists his visage into a monster after revealing that he's willing to kill to pursue his goals, obviously proving that he has the power to control life and the clear cost of doing so - then annakin gets so mad he kills his wife and turns into a monster just like palpatine.

i don't understand why you're doing marvel comic book lore mining to try and make sense of the basic structure of the film's plot