Star Fox General Thread - One of Nintendo’s neglected franchises.

[LightDragonman1]

Here's a comparison between the lines of the original and the remake in the Meteo mission.

 

[Gingervitis]

I suppose they removed Einstein because it was a very 90s thing to mockingly call someone and doesn't really make much sense to younger generations today.

Do… do kids nowadays not know who Einstein is?

 

[Cedric_Eff]

I suppose they removed Einstein because it was a very 90s thing to mockingly call someone and doesn't really make much sense to younger generations today.

The monkey thing is definitely over-compensating, though.

That or it’s a “world building” choice.

 

[winterfag]

 

[Newcomer 42]

This is the endgame of racism: Becoming a giant head and hands.

Actually, Andross is a literal giant brain, the body is artificial. Or a psychic projection. It wasn't made clear WTF was going on here.

d Falco outright calls it out as General Pepper's dirty laundry

Reminds me on how some fans randomly decided that Pepper is shady or outright evil. He's a literal Golden Retriever FFS! He physically can't be evil! Unless this is a conspiracy by cat people.
Speaking of: Event Horizon got a new update! Right after I installed it yesterday, darn it! Having checked it, the first 2 of 5 storylines are completed, but there are some cutscenes to be done for the Saurian arc. I dunno if to wait a little more or to play it as it is now, as I don't know what happens with your save and the levels added in later versions.

Do… do kids nowadays not know who Einstein is?

Do you have to ask? IQ levels keep dropping every year.

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

Actually, Andross is a literal giant brain, the body is artificial. Or a psychic projection. It wasn't made clear WTF was going on here.


Reminds me on how some fans randomly decided that Pepper is shady or outright evil. He's a literal Golden Retriever FFS! He physically can't be evil! Unless this is a conspiracy by cat people.
Speaking of: Event Horizon got a new update! Right after I installed it yesterday, darn it! Having checked it, the first 2 of 5 storylines are completed, but there are some cutscenes to be done for the Saurian arc. I dunno if to wait a little more or to play it as it is now, as I don't know what happens with your save and the levels added in later versions.

Honestly I thought he also turned his entire head gigantic but really, who knows what the devs were thinking if anything at all.

The thing with morally questionable Pepper actually came from Nintendo, well more or less. According to an interview for Zero they wanted to introduce the question if Andross was really the bad guy and Pepper really the hero. But in the actual game that just amounts to Andross shittalking Fox for taking orders from a dog or something, like Andross killed Fox's dad, wants to turn the entire system into space north korea and you also get paid for shooting him up, so in typical Zero fashion they kinda failed at a conceptual level.

Making Pepper more shady wouldn't even come completly out of nowhere because he did stuff like keeping the Aparoids hidden from the public and Event Horizon funnily enough implies that his base on Fichina is space Area 51 where he stores stuff like Cerinian tech.

Also regarding saves in EH I'm pretty certain that they get carried over between versions, because the game updates pretty often and I'm sure people would be pissed if they would loose their savegame everytime it happens.
And it should be noted that the first arc also still misses some voice lines and cutscenes.

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

By the way Event Horizon got a preview for the next level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wapO0SnhZg

 

[Newcomer 42]

The thing with morally questionable Pepper actually came from Nintendo, well more or less. According to an interview for Zero they wanted to introduce the question if Andross was really the bad guy and Pepper really the hero. But in the actual game that just amounts to Andross shittalking Fox for taking orders from a dog or something, like Andross killed Fox's dad, wants to turn the entire system into space north korea and you also get paid for shooting him up, so in typical Zero fashion they kinda failed at a conceptual level.

Andross is a mad dictator with an inhuman (inanimal?) appearance who wants to subjugate an entire solar system and kill everyone else, the other is a regular General with "need to know" secrets. Unless Pepper eats babies for breakfast, it's literally impossible to put them at the same level. Reminds me of the "lol Batman is not too different from Joker" bullshit.

Making Pepper more shady wouldn't even come completly out of nowhere because he did stuff like keeping the Aparoids hidden from the public and Event Horizon funnily enough implies that his base on Fichina is space Area 51 where he stores stuff like Cerinian tech.

I don't recall Pepper keeping the Apparoids hidden. Didn't these bio-Bogs suddenly show up out of nowhere while Fox was finishing off Andrew's latest attempt at conquering Corneria? Plus they infected both Pepper and Peppy.
EH is technically not canon for Nintendo, and sadly a bit buggy ATM, especially this latest release.

 

[Two Dollars]

For what it’s worth, the Einstein line was also removed in the 3DS version.

Anyway, the localizer who censored “monkey” definitely goes to Dragon Ball comment sections and rants about Frieza being racist (not about being a mass murderer though).

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

I don't recall Pepper keeping the Apparoids hidden. Didn't these bio-Bogs suddenly show up out of nowhere while Fox was finishing off Andrew's latest attempt at conquering Corneria? Plus they infected both Pepper and Peppy.
EH is technically not canon for Nintendo, and sadly a bit buggy ATM, especially this latest release.

The Aparoids actually destroyed a Cornerian fleet 17 year before Assault happened and Pepper, Beltino, Peppy and ROB know what Aparoids are. The information was likely supressed to prevent a panic (if the devs though about it.)

The funny thing is that, as awkward as it sounds, the chances that ideas from EH become canon isn't zero, because Nintendo has possibly already used stuff from Lindsey's projects in TotK.

Also regarding stuff like canonicity, yeah fanmade projects are obviously not canon, but the thing is that official Nintendo games are often all over the place, hell Adventures is a weird half baked replacement for a better story and Command just feels like random Wattpad fanfiction that somehow is official, though even the devs were kinda unclear how canon that game is to the SF64 timeline, so in the end I just thought that I don't really have to care who exactly owns something if their stuff has more thought put into it, even it is because they are too autistically obsessed with Star Fox.

The bugs could possibly come from the fact that the freespace engine got updated which tends to break a lot of stuff inside mods, so I guess we just have to wait that it gets fixed. If you continue to run into stuff I guess you can message the dev about it.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

The funny thing is that, as awkward as it sounds, the chances that ideas from EH become canon isn't zero, because Nintendo has possibly already used stuff from Lindsey's projects in TotK.

In the LoZ thread there was a comment that went along the lines of "Nintendo doesn't need to write lore they just need to write something vague and weird and then pray that their fans come up with a theory god enough to steal".

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

In the LoZ thread there was a comment that went along the lines of "Nintendo doesn't need to write lore they just need to write something vague and weird and then pray that their fans come up with a theory god enough to steal".

Didn't Nintendo also publish multiple different Zelda timelines to mindrape fans? In the case of Star Fox they apparently already used terms from the Star Fox fanwiki on official t-shirts, hell according to some peple that I think worked on Mario Nintendo apparently just told them to look up stuff on the fanwiki if they have questions.

Nintendo fans really obsess about a lot of lore stuff like the inconsistencies between Metroid games or something. Funnily enough from the large Nintendo franchise that I know only Kirby has huge amounts of lore and still stayed consistent with itself so far, mostly because the games get directed by the same crazy autist that inserts insane lore into everything.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

The thing with morally questionable Pepper actually came from Nintendo, well more or less. According to an interview for Zero they wanted to introduce the question if Andross was really the bad guy and Pepper really the hero. But in the actual game that just amounts to Andross shittalking Fox for taking orders from a dog or something, like Andross killed Fox's dad, wants to turn the entire system into space north korea and you also get paid for shooting him up, so in typical Zero fashion they kinda failed at a conceptual level.

This idea originally came from Command, I think. That game had Krystal tell Fox on one or two routes about how Andross was totally a peaceful scientist who just wanted to make society better, but was betrayed by Pepper and exiled to Venom on false charges which led to Andross going insane.

 

[Newcomer 42]

By the way Event Horizon got a preview for the next level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wapO0SnhZg

I see someone liked Mechwarrior Assault. This is more work than Nintendo will ever bother. Although I don't like making the Corneria army evil. It will make future campaigns set in Assault and other games awkward when Fox is back to help the Big C. As well as giving him a body count that would impress Chirico Cuvie, at this rate.

Giving Krystal a more humble uniform and then have her curse like a sailor is also derpy. She's meant to be a princess.

The funny thing is that, as awkward as it sounds, the chances that ideas from EH become canon isn't zero, because Nintendo has possibly already used stuff from Lindsey's projects in TotK.

More like it will be C&D'ed, then its ideas stolen.
Hopefully the game lasts long enough to get to 1.0 before being killed (or worse, one of the devs trooning out).

Also regarding stuff like canonicity, yeah fanmade projects are obviously not canon, but the thing is that official Nintendo games are often all over the place, hell Adventures is a weird half baked replacement for a better story and Command just feels like random Wattpad fanfiction that somehow is official, though even the devs were kinda unclear how canon that game is to the SF64 timeline, so in the end I just thought that I don't really have to care who exactly owns something if their stuff has more thought put into it, even it is because they are too autistically obsessed with Star Fox.

To be fair, Nintendo's games don't tend to have that much story. Star Fox is aping (heh) Star Wars with furries. The issue is combining games that were never meant to be part of the franchise (Adventure), or are outright terrible (Command).

This idea originally came from Command, I think. That game had Krystal tell Fox on one or two routes about how Andross was totally a peaceful scientist who just wanted to make society better, but was betrayed by Pepper and exiled to Venom on false charges which led to Andross going insane.

Truly, Command did everything bad. Plus I bet one of the writers was a cat lover, for extra devilry.
And yeah, the mad scientist who designs an army of mutants and robots and then turns himself into a monster was peaceful, right. Totally.
Maybe I'm mixing it with fanfiction or discarded lore, but I swear Andross' experiments were considered unethical at best, and the exile was caused when Corneria had enough with the mad monkey.

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

This idea originally came from Command, I think. That game had Krystal tell Fox on one or two routes about how Andross was totally a peaceful scientist who just wanted to make society better, but was betrayed by Pepper and exiled to Venom on false charges which led to Andross going insane.

Weren't Andross's experiments implied to be highly dangerous and morally questionable? The idea that Pepper is actually space hitler and just send Andross to Venom because he was salty that the later wanted to make society better sounds like a random conspiracy theory that was made form someone who probably also wrote a creepypasta about Super Mario being a communist because his level flag has a red star on it. But on the other hand Command was also like "remember Pigma whose brain got eaten by space horror monsters and who afterwards exploded (and even if he somehow was still alive after that the Aparoid self destruct program should have gotten him), well he actually is still alive and turned into a rubik's cube for some reason."

(Though to be fair the Krazoa in Adventures were just random spirits that hold Sauria together or something but in the og story they were supposed to be Cthulhu worshipping space nazis, which also sounds like a random internet theory but is actually legit.)

 

[Retarded Weeb]

Maybe I'm mixing it with fanfiction or discarded lore, but I swear Andross' experiments were considered unethical at best, and the exile was caused when Corneria had enough with the mad monkey.

Weren't Andross's experiments implied to be highly dangerous and morally questionable? The idea that Pepper is actually space hitler and just send Andross to Venom because he was salty that the later wanted to make society better sounds like a random conspiracy theory that was made form someone who probably also wrote a creepypasta about Super Mario being a communist because his level flag has a red star on it.

You're not misremembering. The SNES game's manual says Andross was researching dimensional warping and started doing dangerous experiments for the sake of his ego which got him exiled. 64's manual says he moved from physics to studying bio-technology and ended up creating some kind of bioweapon that rampaged in Corneria and had to get taken out by the military which led to him being charged by Pepper and exiled forever to Venom.

I found where the exact conversation in Command was. In multiple routes, you go to Titania to find a device guarded by one of Andross's bioweapons that can be used to purify Venom's oceans, allowing you to enter them to fight the Anglars. A different character each version of the mission tells you about Andross inventing this device.

Wolf: "ANYWAY, Andross wanted to make Venom a lush, green planet. I think he wanted a place where his grandkids could grow up, ya know? Anyway, that's why he needed this thing! So he could neutralize those oceans."
(By the way, found another line from Falco here as Wolf steals the device: "No! Bad wolf! Sit! Stay!")
---
Dash: "This apparatus neutralizes the toxic effects of the Venom Sea. It was invented to help the planet. My grandpa wanted it to be green and pleasant, just like Corneria!"
---
Peppy: "As you know, the Venom Sea is extremely acidic. At the moment, there's no way we can get anywhere near it."
Slippy: "Our ships wouldn't last ten minutes in that environment!"
Peppy: "Well, after our last battle with Andross, he started thinking. He put together a plan to terraform the whole environment. He wanted to make Venom a more hospitable place to live."
Slippy: "Wait...he actually wanted to neutralize the acidity of the Venom Sea?"
Peppy: "Exactly! And now he's hidden a device on Titania to do just that!"
---
The route where Krystal comes with you has the longest conversation about this.

Fox: "So, Krystal? About the secret of Titania? If you know something, you need to tell us."
Krystal: "...Fine. A long time ago, Andross started developing a new machine. This device would make Venom a beautiful planet that could support life."
Fox: "Venom? Beautiful?"
Krystal: "Andross was deemed to be a dangerous fanatic and banished from Venom. He was condemned to a life of isolation and loneliness."
Fox:"That lousy ape is nothing more than a crazed maniac!"
Krystal: "You say that because he killed your father. But at that time, he was Corneria's chief science officer. He was also a close colleague of General Pepper. But they were like oil and water. Their infighting was a precursor to war."
Fox: "NO! That's a LIE! Andross ignored an order to halt his dangerous experiments! He was banished as punishment!"
Krystal: "His motives were pure, Fox! He just wanted to continue his research. He never asked for money or kickbacks of any kind!"
Fox: "Yeah? Well if he's so pure, why did we end up going to war?!"
Krystal: "..."
Falco: "Enough! We don't have time to blad about the past right now!"
Krystal: "You're right, Falco. Let me continue. After Andross fought you, he dedicated his remaining days to planet Venom. He wanted to leave some sort of legacy. That's all."

(Side note, I found the Japanese version of the conversation, and without going over the whole thing, the biggest thing is that Krystal's last line is mistranslated. Instead of "after he fought you, he did this" it should be "he was planning to do this after he was done getting revenge on Corneria.")

 

[Newcomer 42]

"remember Pigma whose brain got eaten by space horror monsters and who afterwards exploded (and even if he somehow was still alive after that the Aparoid self destruct program should have gotten him), well he actually is still alive and turned into a rubik's cube for some reason."

Ah, right, that happened, kek. I was more concerned about how Star Wolf now wanted to be considered heroes, just like that.

(Though to be fair the Krazoa in Adventures were just random spirits that hold Sauria together or something but in the og story they were supposed to be Cthulhu worshipping space nazis, which also sounds like a random internet theory but is actually legit.)

That's a bit random, but eh, can be worked with.

You're not misremembering. The SNES game's manual says Andross was researching dimensional warping and started doing dangerous experiments for the sake of his ego which got him exiled. 64's manual says he moved from physics to studying bio-technology and ended up creating some kind of bioweapon that rampaged in Corneria and had to get taken out by the military which led to him being charged by Pepper and exiled forever to Venom.

So he fucked around and found out. Pepper's reaction was completely justified no matter how you spin it.

Dash: "This apparatus neutralizes the toxic effects of the Venom Sea. It was invented to help the planet. My grandpa wanted it to be green and pleasant, just like Corneria!"

This is yet another example of poor writing of Command. Dash could have been used to show how Corneria mistreated him due being a monkey, how he was not his (grand)father, how your past doesn't define you... And then he becomes a copy of Andross in his ending anyway (now with extra nationalism!), top kek.
Morale of the story: That family line is irremediably evil and/or cursed.
Very racist thinking, kek.

The route where Krystal comes with you has the longest conversation about this.

Fox: "So, Krystal? About the secret of Titania? If you know something, you need to tell us."
Krystal: "...Fine. A long time ago, Andross started developing a new machine. This device would make Venom a beautiful planet that could support life."
Fox: "Venom? Beautiful?"
Krystal: "Andross was deemed to be a dangerous fanatic and banished from Venom. He was condemned to a life of isolation and loneliness."
Fox:"That lousy ape is nothing more than a crazed maniac!"
Krystal: "You say that because he killed your father. But at that time, he was Corneria's chief science officer. He was also a close colleague of General Pepper. But they were like oil and water. Their infighting was a precursor to war."
Fox: "NO! That's a LIE! Andross ignored an order to halt his dangerous experiments! He was banished as punishment!"
Krystal: "His motives were pure, Fox! He just wanted to continue his research. He never asked for money or kickbacks of any kind!"
Fox: "Yeah? Well if he's so pure, why did we end up going to war?!"
Krystal: "..."
Falco: "Enough! We don't have time to blad about the past right now!"
Krystal: "You're right, Falco. Let me continue. After Andross fought you, he dedicated his remaining days to planet Venom. He wanted to leave some sort of legacy. That's all."

Krystal, the literal savage woman, knowing more than Fox about this feels odd. Plus she still can't justify Big A's response anyway.
There's also another plot-hole in that Venom, despite being a toxic planet no-one wanted to do anything with after the first war, somehow had fish people living there that no-one knew about, not even Andross (there could have been made a mention by the Emperor that he made a deal with Andross, knew him, helped him with his experiments or whatever, tying this game with the previous one). The heroes could also have chosen to simply bomb the planet to pieces since it seems nothing good lives there, but the mercenaries with a large body count suddenly didn't think of the Exterminatus option.
The fact A. wanted to make a planet beautiful doesn't justify everything else nor his reaction.

 

[Dr J]

Here's a comparison between the lines of the original and the remake in the Meteo mission.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZQKmXjyK4Gc

Why did we need this game? Seriously? The style (of the characters) is ugly, the voice acting is shit and they've stripped all of the charm out of the original game

 

[Coolio55]

It's impressive that the male characters are so ugly.
I could imagine the usual smug chuckling if it was just Kat but there's a very deafening silence surrounding the whole thing outside of the usual cope.

 

[Captain Quazar]

This idea originally came from Command, I think. That game had Krystal tell Fox on one or two routes about how Andross was totally a peaceful scientist who just wanted to make society better, but was betrayed by Pepper and exiled to Venom on false charges which led to Andross going insane.

I feel like Command is the Touhou of the Star Fox series, where more people tend to talk about it rather than actually play it. I think it's a fine game for what it is.