Sperg about comic books here

[Registration]

That would be too cruel for Batman, but yeah, I get the point. I just hate how prog writers do the no kill rule and then just lets villains go without any attempt at trying to redeem them. You can really feel how they never even attempt to think through "no kill" or on a related note, "rehabilitation not deterrent" for prisons and real-life crime. There's only ever a moral benefit, which isn't a benefit especially in this genre because they almost never reform and they have more potential to damage their world than Bin Laden did to New York.

I know the reason why they do it, it is just more profitable to leave the villain alive. However in japan super heroes stories, they have heroes who kill and are still highly praised and revered. Whenever you put teo characters fighting against each other, the risk of one living and not should be real, but in the end it is just like a exhibition match that they aren't as serious as they would be in a real contest. And stories are better when they treat it like that.

I do feel more emotion with a child holding a sword than any capeshit battle because the story convinces me that everything there is "real" and the decisions they take are something they put their lives on the stake for it.



Now would why I care if Norman shot dead after decades of not taking things seriously for these characters?

 

[funwithshemales69]

I do feel more emotion with a child holding a sword than any capeshit battle because the story convinces me that everything there is "real" and the decisions they take are something they put their lives on the stake for it.

Mind you this is just the gekiga exception, everything after gekiga is not as good story wise. Occasionally you see a naoki urasawa coming close to gekiga but not quite. While western writers have a great advantage wrt writing realistic or dramatic stories, a lot of great batman solo outings are just that, the problem is they don't know how to keep philosophy, politics and morality separate or how to meld them when required, all of it is put in the same cauldron causing a miasma of blandness when mishandled. Alan Moore comes to mind, his first US comic was one about vigilante, a small dc figure, which focused on a woman who was sexually abused by her father and how killing him was 'bad' cause he was still her father and revenge begets nothing. That statement itself sorta shows how in vain the effort was. Same with saga of swamp thing, people laud it for so much but I remember entire segments being unreadable, especially with the drug trips, hallucinations, plant sex and woman rambling. But then again Japanese writers didn't flourish state side, with both kazuo koikes xmen and the blame authors wolverine issues being nearly unreadable. Since we're on the subject, kazuo koike is probably the best writer in manga history and his stuff is just so good. Buronson is a close second, both of them together have more shitty live action adaptations than anybody else in manga ever, which is a testament to how good their work is.

I was rereading the boys recently and I had erased from my memory how much went over my head just cause of the slang usage. A lot of stuff still goes over my head and I'm a bit disappointed I don't get stuff without googling it. Ennis tends to do this everywhere, did it in adventures of the rifle brigade as well so I would really like a comprehensive list of anglo slang from all four countries just to get my foot in the door. It would be really useful for both writing and understanding anglo language use instead of having to Google paragraphs of text.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Got this Malice poster for free today.
Yeah the current FF run is kinda ass but I really like this design.
Ver archivo adjunto 9034191

I hate the comic panel artwork for his 2nd run.

Such a huge downgrade.

Maker’s dream girl right there.

When they’re done bumblefucking around with the nonsense of Ultimate 2.0, they should have Maker put together a dark FF.

Or Reed Doom.

I can see Reed Doom with her.

Someone mentioned that comicbook writers are bitter about how the superheroes are way more successful and moral than what they'll ever be. As the eternal underdog, Spiderman is a prime target.

 

[King Metalia]

I firmly believe in the conspiracy that both Ultimate Spiderman runs were fucked with at the end, when it was pretty clear they were gonna be remembered more fondly.

Even the 2nd go at USM, leagues better than the current poopoo in the latest spoderman run where MJ is planning to fuck flash and they all got symbiote suits and the mystique of the symbiote is all gone since baby chibi style symbiotes exist and now they planning to force readers to remember Paul fondly.

I just want the writers to stop the retarded mandate that Peter Parker must always be miserable. Who the fuck came up with that idea anyway?

 

[Humble Architect]

I hate the comic panel artwork for his 2nd run.

Such a huge downgrade.



Or Reed Doom.

I can see Reed Doom with her.



Ver archivo adjunto 9044885

I think Reed Doom is Maker, I think the brain surgery was a reverse of what he did to Tony, I think he took a bit of his weird, gross biology and put it in there,

That’s why Reed Doom is so much like early Ultimate 1.0 Reed. He’s a wargame, no different than his mice.

I think Maker wasn’t making a Doctor Doom, the Doom thing is a smokescreen for 2.0 Reed being Venom Snake’d into 1.0 Reed to see if the abused super genius takes the Maker-option. It follows the trend of 2.0/Hickman’s Ultimate tenure of old roles taking new faces. No Nathaniel Richards so Maker fills a twisted version of the role.

I’m just curious what he did to Victor, him stuffing Namor was inexorably based.

 

[MrJokerRager]

I think Reed Doom is Maker, I think the brain surgery was a reverse of what he did to Tony, I think he took a bit of his weird, gross biology and put it in there,

That’s why Reed Doom is so much like early Ultimate 1.0 Reed. He’s a wargame, no different than his mice.

I think Maker wasn’t making a Doctor Doom, the Doom thing is a smokescreen for 2.0 Reed being Venom Snake’d into 1.0 Reed to see if the abused super genius takes the Maker-option. It follows the trend of 2.0/Hickman’s Ultimate tenure of old roles taking new faces. No Nathaniel Richards so Maker fills a twisted version of the role.

I’m just curious what he did to Victor, him stuffing Namor was inexorably based.

They still haven’t explained his weird eye color changes and Reed Doom's secret was mentioned in the last issue that is yet to be revealed.

Sounds plausible, that theory of yours.

 

[Registration]

@funwithshemales69

Nigga what the fuck are you talking about? This isn't about this perceived idea that westerns have of Gekiga (which what I posted isn't). It is about taking their stories seriously in a way that it makes sense for the story themselves. It could be the slopiest kill island manga ever made, the moment they do kill a random character, the character stays dead. Capeshit comics can't and won't take these ideas seriously. I remember some years ago reading a red hood comic that Jason Todd shot the Penguin in the head point blank and he lived. No consequences at all for the fat fuck and that was left like that.

It is the same pervasive idea that the TV show The Boys had: to make series becomes franchises so they can keep milking stuff off.

It is like if in Naruto, they decided to not kill Itachi Uchiha just to keep milking him for years in spinoffs and other material. There is nothing about being gekiga about this, any manga does this stuff, even the most slop ones. When a character dies, he dies, every battle matters, which isn't the case with capeshit comics from Marvel and DC. (Which the only way they can do otherwise is by introducing alternative versions or elseworlds).

Just read the post above this very one: they are talking about fucking Reed Richards from the Ultimates universe who they had to to the most insane ball juggling to make him the antagonist in one of the sloppiest ways possible. Their big bad is a character from the 2000s that himself is an alternative version from the 1960s. Don't you see how vile this becomes eventually?

 

[DeeDee Megadoodoo]

I'm still scratching my head as to why Cyborg is even in Justice League at all.

Because it's hilarious to have the black be 3/5 of a person.

 

[funwithshemales69]

This isn't about this perceived idea that westerns have of Gekiga (which what I posted isn't). It is about taking their stories seriously in a way that it makes sense for the story themselves.

In the possibility that what you posted is samurai assassin, that is gekiga too. I don't want to sperg too much about japshit cause this is not the thread but safe to say, gekigas were about taking stories seriously, actions had consequences and their realism lended gravitas to the stories. This is not the case with shit which came later like shonen, which still had consequences but also had loopholes.

Now your problem with marvel and DC is not actually a problem with capeshit cause it's a trait fundamental to it. Capeshit is one of many genres which are descendents of pulp fiction of the 1910s to 30s, in fact they inspired comics as a medium and one of the traits of pulp fiction heroes is to fight the same guy across different stories, without wider consequences because of the serialized reusable format. Conan did it with all his villains, shadow did it with couple, phantom did it, John Carter did it, tarzan did it whatever. So unless there is an epic finale, the villains usually don't stay dead and there is no build up to an epic finale cause they're all disconnected stories. Marvel and dc did the same thing, dc especially with batman having runins with the joker around the 40s. But this is where the case of narrative storytelling dropped in. Around the silver age more and more writers along with the companies themselves wanted to do narratives within the serialized format, idk why but if I had to guess it's cause it worked in television. So starting from like neal adams, there were attempts to write narratives for superheroes within the serialized format. But the limitation of a narrative is canon, you cannot undo consequences of what happened before. So companies/writers, who wanted to have their cake and eat it too, ended up writing narrative arcs which are serialized but also disconnected, thereby you could keep the best of both worlds, pulp and narrative. This ultimately leads to the stories, while seeming consequential, not having many consequences. This is especially true in the case of heroes and villains, who will not die or have wide reaching ramifications. One solution they tried to pursue here is the alt universe idea, where every story takes place in a different universe, sidestepping canon entirely. I think this is fine and works out well for what they want to do. The reason you don't enjoy it as a reader is cause youre tuned to narrative instead of seeing it as a pulp story or something akin. Its a stupid endeavour to go into a pulp story expecting a narrative, nobody goes into conan the barbarian expecting lord of the rings.

Now comes the milking problem, is it milking the genre? I would say yes now but in the 80s and 90s probably not cause it was an exploration of possibilities. Year one and dkr take place in a different universe from killing joke which is different from death in the family which is different from hush. There is probably some fundamental exploitation in the idea of keeping heroes and villains perpetually fighting with no consequence, but like I said it's a pulp format, that's how it is and that is why the alt universe thing exists, to appear to have some semblance of consequence while also not having any. It's not the best solution but I find it difficult to come up with something better.

Also precisely cause of this pulp narrative integration does the manga comic meme exist, start at issue one vs start with a dozen different arcs all disconnected from one another. Manga also initially had some series which were narrative pulps, flavour of the week stories with recurring villains, like golgo 13 and City hunter. But they sidestepped the consequence issue by having the villains be non central and unrecognisable while also not having major impact on the world so that does not come up in subsequent issues. Otherwise for the most part manga is just one long narrative which is serialized, with no pulp elements. That is why they have solid endings, except for again golgo 13 which is still going for almost 60 years (and to some extent City hunter which is using the alt universe reinterpretations format for spinoffs). And side note, golgo 13 is still second highest best selling or most popular manga of all time in Japan, despite the guy never having permanent consequences and just killing random people from terrorists to world leaders every arc. In fact despite being a 60s character, the writers never age him and always place him in contemporary settings. There is also the story structure and Japanese vs American storytelling I can dive into but this is long enough, I hope you get the point.

Edit: Also fucking lupin the third, very famous very serialized non narrative experience. Every adventure was different and had no impact on the previous, why he has like 15 adaptions in the first place.

 

[Humble Architect]

They still haven’t explained his weird eye color changes and Reed Doom's secret was mentioned in the last issue that is yet to be revealed.

Sounds plausible, that theory of yours.

Well they’re dropping Maker’s spore mind-control and him literally appearing to Doom, Silverhand/Handsome Jack/Cortana-style makes me think he was already in there.

So I think the reveal is gonna be that every heinous thing, losing the FF, the torture, the gaslighting and after the torture, casual abuse, it’s just recreating himself as he was pre-turn, to prove a point and satisfy Maker’s complex against Reeds. That eye colour switch is when Maker is “watching” I bet. He just took a Reed and made him into himself, wrapped in Doom’s clothing because that’s Maker, he’s just Ultimate’s actual Doctor Doom.

Him referring to his depression as a “negative zone” is so on the nose that he has a bit of Maker in his brain. Him wanting to kill himself? It’s cause he’s the Maker’s backup body. Guarantee the mask comes off and it’s now Maker’s face under there.

At least this is me reading Hickman’s plan. Camp is a faggot and retard so who knows how it’s gonna go. I’ll just be glad to have Maker freed up after all this. He’s the best “new” villian made in the 2000s and one of the better “evil version” characters because of just how much weight he had as the Ultimate Mister Fantastic.

Honestly Maker scratches the itch Lex used to, impossibly smart, irredeemable, cunt. Making him the big bad was a mistake for Ultimate 2.0, he should’ve been the “big good” of the universe, the Superman, the Spider-Man and a presence in every book, like Nick in Ultimate 1.0. With the reveal being the smartest man on the planet used cheat codes and rewrote everything to be…… boring. Kinda like Wanted but less edgecore.

 

[The Feline Solution 2]

Maybe you guys can help me out. I was randomly thinking of an issue of a Wolverine comic i picked up ages ago (minimum 20 years ago, probably more like 30) at a news stand, all i remember from it was that it was really grim, it was set in the not-Phillipines and the main villain was a child molester and the comic starts with a young boy trying to shoot him. It has Nick Fury in it and there's a scene where he fights with Wolverine and uses some kind of bio weapon/bio disruptor that was painted in vivid green. Art style was fairly realistic and i do remember how i was quite taken aback as a kid regarding the dark subject matter of the comic in general, it was like nothing i've ever read before. I desperately want to reread this one. There's another scene in the comic where the villain gets tangled in barbed wire and i think it pokes one of his eyes out, if i remember correctly.

 

[DocAwe]

Maybe you guys can help me out. I was randomly thinking of an issue of a Wolverine comic i picked up ages ago (minimum 20 years ago, probably more like 30) at a news stand, all i remember from it was that it was really grim, it was set in the not-Phillipines and the main villain was a child molester and the comic starts with a young boy trying to shoot him. It has Nick Fury in it and there's a scene where he fights with Wolverine and uses some kind of bio weapon/bio disruptor that was painted in vivid green. Art style was fairly realistic and i do remember how i was quite taken aback as a kid regarding the dark subject matter of the comic in general, it was like nothing i've ever read before. I desperately want to reread this one. There's another scene in the comic where the villain gets tangled in barbed wire and i think it pokes one of his eyes out, if i remember correctly.

I don't know that comic but it reminded my of an issue of Punisher where Frank infiltrates an all boys military school and finds the headmaster running a cp ring in the basement.
Frank does what Frank does.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Well they’re dropping Maker’s spore mind-control and him literally appearing to Doom, Silverhand/Handsome Jack/Cortana-style makes me think he was already in there.

So I think the reveal is gonna be that every heinous thing, losing the FF, the torture, the gaslighting and after the torture, casual abuse, it’s just recreating himself as he was pre-turn, to prove a point and satisfy Maker’s complex against Reeds. That eye colour switch is when Maker is “watching” I bet. He just took a Reed and made him into himself, wrapped in Doom’s clothing because that’s Maker, he’s just Ultimate’s actual Doctor Doom.

Him referring to his depression as a “negative zone” is so on the nose that he has a bit of Maker in his brain. Him wanting to kill himself? It’s cause he’s the Maker’s backup body. Guarantee the mask comes off and it’s now Maker’s face under there.

At least this is me reading Hickman’s plan. Camp is a faggot and retard so who knows how it’s gonna go. I’ll just be glad to have Maker freed up after all this. He’s the best “new” villian made in the 2000s and one of the better “evil version” characters because of just how much weight he had as the Ultimate Mister Fantastic.

Honestly Maker scratches the itch Lex used to, impossibly smart, irredeemable, cunt. Making him the big bad was a mistake for Ultimate 2.0, he should’ve been the “big good” of the universe, the Superman, the Spider-Man and a presence in every book, like Nick in Ultimate 1.0. With the reveal being the smartest man on the planet used cheat codes and rewrote everything to be…… boring. Kinda like Wanted but less edgecore.

I was thinking if Reed Doom's secret could be that he has made contact with the actual 6160 Reed somehow, as a parallel when the Maker did it with Zombie Reed. Or could be ultimate valeria and franklin that he has met somehow.

I was reading through some of the chapters from Ultimate FF and in hindsight, I can see why Reed has massive grudges against Namor and Magneto, and Sue really was a bitch lol.

 

[Registration]

possibility that what you posted is samurai assassin, that is gekiga too

Is is neither, it is SHIN Lone Wolf and Cub, that started being published in 2003.

gekigas were about taking stories seriously, actions had consequences and their realism lended gravitas to the stories. This is not the case with shit which came later like shonen, which still had consequences but also had loopholes.

Dude, this very manga has supernatural elements (not even the reason to why this isn't gekiga), but what you talking didn't change at all for manga, and neither did with any type of comic from europe either. What I am complaining about is the incestuous nature of capeshit comics where profits dictate where the story goes in relation to character combat, conflicts and death of the same characters. This fuckery that happens so much that no one takes death seriously in super hero comics. When a character dies in One Piece, Naruto ot whatever title, they stay dead. This isn't a matter of gekiga being realistic and shonen being more fantasy, death in both storytelling view are seen as the same. Which isn't the case with Super Hero comics.

So companies/writers, who wanted to have their cake and eat it too, ended up writing narrative arcs which are serialized but also disconnected, thereby you could keep the best of both worlds, pulp and narrative.

And you see where this ended up? What we see today with capeshit isn't symptoms, it is a complete fungal takeover of the decrepit body. We still have the serialized heroes like Phantom and Tex Willer and they are still being published, there is nothing wrong with that. But lets use a character that went further into the capeshit way of doing things: Conan. Conan has crossovers, is an Avenger, did appear in Marvel events, things that devalued his importance as a character because they want to make money of him more than they care about his own world.

The reason you don't enjoy it as a reader is cause youre tuned to narrative instead of seeing it as a pulp story or something akin. Its a stupid endeavour to go into a pulp story expecting a narrative, nobody goes into conan the barbarian expecting lord of the rings.

Are you for real? This very thread not many posts ago there was someone wanting to undo one more day, to make Peter go back to Mary Jane and their story as married couple to restart. And these people are majority, they want continuity to matter, they want to see where their story goes next and every single narrative today in any media ks like that nowadays. Episodic stuff is very unpopular compared to it. But in case of Spider-Man they don't realize that peter being married again doesn't mean their stories won't be shit unless they understood that their entire narrative has to change. You ABSOLUTELY can't have both ways. And we even had a taste of it with the new ultimate spider-man that came out recently, only to be shot dead by editorial.

I would say yes now but in the 80s and 90s probably not cause it was an exploration of possibilities.

Lets use DC for example. First of all why are you ignoring the Earth-2 A and B, one of the very real stabilished alternate universes that we could see alternate versions (Older) still living that was destroyed by Crisis on Infinite Earths? Or how this very event lined up everything to occur in the same universe and ignoring alternative worlds for DECADES. Even more when in these years were the days when Elseworlds line existed and flourished but then at some point it just stopped? What happened in the 90s that during the 00s they changed their entire world view of alternate world?

There is probably some fundamental exploitation in the idea of keeping heroes and villains perpetually fighting with no consequence, but like I said it's a pulp format, that's how it is and that is why the alt universe thing exists, to appear to have some semblance of consequence while also not having any.

And I wish this was the problem, but it isn't. What happened in the 00s that caused more comics to sell? Comics that had no relationship with each other suddenly were tied together by a very thing named events (that did exists in the 90s too). A big crossover that gobbled their entire fictional universe for a few months that helped comics to sell just by having the tagline "CIVIL WAR" above it.

 

[Humble Architect]

@MrJokerRager Ultimate Sue was the whore that mainline Sue sometimes dips into when handled by cuck fetishists, except all the time, just a total bitch. I totally get Reed’s mindset. Bro crashed out and becoming Maker was just him finally getting with the program of his universe.

The biggest thing would be if “the big gun” against Maker is the Ultimate FF. If Doom’s shenanigans didn’t undo the stuff that happened but let another version of him and his friends become what they were supposed to be, then that would be perfect for his arc. There’s nobody named Nathaniel Richards in Ultimate 2.0, but his role is filled.

Plus Maker would lose it and resulting crashout would be hilarious. Even Camp can’t fuckup a Reed meltdown and whatever happens, I anticipate better writers doing cool things with Maker once he’s freed up.

 

[God of Nothing]

how does it feel for comics to be completely outdone as an industry by a single manga?

 

[Birthday Cat]

how does it feel for comics to be completely outdone as an industry by a single manga?

this argument is kind of void because if comics are outdone because of their modern state, my nigga, manga is having various big fucking issues in modern day, especially with franchise suicide like how utter dogshit boruto is as a sequel to a legacy franchise, or jjk pushing mtf troons

they both have a similar problem of having very good parts and very fucking dogshit, main thing with comics is they've kept utter dogshit talent across the board and proceed to hire more dogshit, while manga has dogshit occasionally or good ones who turn dogshit but still hire good ones as well. if you look at modern comics on shelves (if you can fuckin find any lol) unless you specifically like a artist, it's nearly all complete and total shit plot wise. manga, regardless of whether you want serious, dumb, gooner, or a combo, you can find *something* at any time generally

comics are ran by pushed agendas, while manga is more of money talks, excepting the fact that translator publishing companies actively make sure to have an unnatural proportion of weird gay/troon niche shit that remains on shelves

I just want the writers to stop the retarded mandate that Peter Parker must always be miserable. Who the fuck came up with that idea anyway?

i don't like torture porn but i like status quo spider man, or resetting to it when a new writer comes up, imo it gets boring to just have him marry and then have like 100 issues of him being married, i much more like the "dating" part or being able to easily arc to different potential romance plots etc, and i also like the triangle with black cat, even though they've systematically ruined that character, i liked her earlier runs more than catwoman because cw leans more to cuck bait mary sue while black cat had more mental issues etc, at least before ultimate where they made her a old retarded wine mom essentially, and will introduce random AS FUCK romantic interests that come from NOWHERE but refuse to keep long term non merced characters like bc as a love interest

part of it's also because of how fucking pozzed mj has become with the maguire movies and paul/mjvenom shit, all other potential side romances seem like better options (until they finish ruining every single one). honestly though i don't think the misery and character destruction is the worst part, i think it's a similar problem i have with batman, and apparently fucking all legacy franchises at this point, essentially "multiverse" bullshit, or the more cemented built in shit of "everybody is spiderman/batman/green lantern/flash/captain marvel/doctor strange/ghost rider/hulk etc". there's like fucking 10 batmen now without dimensional shit. spiderman and miles who has spider man's full power set but with oc fanfic powers, doc ock body jacked him and is now added to a multiverse, there's future spider men, clone spider men etc, the animated movie characters who were welded onto the mainline.

another is spider man's original design philosophy was for science related, relatively grounded villains, but they insist more and more on just throwing that out the window and fighting retarded dimensional shit and giving him more op shit or plot armor to compensate. you look at his original villains and comics, and you can see ways the villains were designed to be "how the fuck do i fight this" but then he overcomes them with intelligent use of his abilities/knowledge, like sandman and glassing etc. now it's just beating the fuck out of marvel satan etc, so you have a sword of both making spiderman lesser, and his villains.

if there's 12 spider men, spider man isn't special, he's replacable, and so are they. if he can fight dimensional creatures, then i guess he only lost gwen, or had collateral damage, or presented his anus and love interests to green goblin, or other fuck ups because he was just a retard etc. at that point, why the fuck should people care if he's getting cucked, or if he even does anything at all. he can basically just leave/kill himself/die/retire and it means nothing, zero of his ""love"" interests are devoted to him or would care beyond a week, he has no rival who would care, his existence means fucking nothing. if someone splattered him, they'd just insert miles or miles II and mj would just get with paul or fucking flash or whatever male is nearby the writer likes or self inserts as, instead of any, you know, self inserting as the actual main character like the reader base typically does. that's a similar issue with nearly every hero at this point, they simply INSIST upon it. OH NOOOOOOOO batman might die, OH FUCKIN WELL, i have 9 on speed dial, and i also have joker becoming batman and writers insisting that actually joker was the good guy, a better hero, and batman is the sole reason shit like galactus tries to eat gotham or serial killers try to go after people or a crazy plant lady decides to turn the world into a bush

 

[DocAwe]

Manga also has the problem of what amounts to activist TRANSlators twisting the stories to their own warped mindset.

 

[MrJokerRager]

The last ultimates dropped today.

Janet and Hank had a good ending.

The Maker realized to stop Hank slapping and using ant spray and eating fat bodies. Just brain damage him.

 

[DocAwe]

The last ultimates dropped today.

Janet and Hank had a good ending.

The Maker realized to stop Hank slapping and using ant spray and eating fat bodies. Just brain damage him.

Ver archivo adjunto 9065040

Is Peter still dead?