Space Travel and the Search for Alien Life - Yes, let's talk about aliens.

[Cheap Sandals]

If aliens have visited us, they haven't interacted with us in a way recognizable as intelligent or distinguishable from random universal events. Which is to say, for all practical purposes, we've never been visited (nor been aware) of any intelligent life exterior to our own planet. (There is the possibility that the aliens are just SO superior they've been puppetteering us. If they're that inherently superior they're equivalent to a force of nature so we may as well act as if they don't exist.)

I have no doubt there is life somewhere in the universe, but given the fact that we're cosmic scum on a galaxial tidepool, the odds that intelligent life seeks to partner with us in an equitable relationship is hysterically small.

We should be suspicious and stop broadcasting our location in space.

 

[Pandinus Imperator]

If aliens of high intelligence exist, I think they will definitely be similar to humans, because of the principle of convergent evolution. Every alternative design I see made by speculative designers has glaring practicality/plausibility issues, so as far as I'm concerned, if other species of people are out there, they are going to be much more similar to us than different. I will stick to this because it is the most logical conclusion, until I am proven wrong by the discovery of real non-humanoid sapient aliens.

 

[TowinKarz]

I kinda subscribe to the popular scientific consensus, it's not probable that we're the ONLY life in the universe, but, the likelihood that there are other comparable or advanced civilizations out there that can be contacted in a meaningful way, let alone visited, are slim to nonexistent due to the immense size and distances involved.

But, I see it like playing the lottery, try it every now and then, you may get lucky, but don't bet your house on it.

And those that complain about the "billions" spent on space exploration, only a tiny fraction of that is devoted to SETI - like programs, and overall, the budget for social welfare DWARFS the space spending of any nation. So the "cure hunger first" argument is an unachievable goal, and a pretty transparent one.

 

[Antipathy]

Considering the lack of interest, funding or stability needed to really explore space, (as well as our most practical and theoretically sound method of space travel is technically banned under international law), I sincerely doubt we're going to make any massive strides in attempting to locate sentient life, or exploring the cosmos.

While I am an avid supporter of space exploration, and I advocate increasing the budget of government run space programs, the simple truth is nobody really cares.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

[...] the likelihood that there are other comparable or advanced civilizations out there that can be contacted in a meaningful way, let alone visited, are slim to nonexistent due to the immense size and distances involved.

I've heard another argument thrown around: what if -- and despite the age and vastness of the universe -- Earth is among the very first worlds (if not THE first) in the universe to reach a "Space Age" level of technology?

 

[keksz]

Odds are reasonable that humans are about average so aliens would have a decent chance of being just as depraved as humans

Your only mistake here is not to acknowledge the standard deviation could be something like 3 billion years of evolution ahead of us. This is a lot of leeway in moral and ethical development, even if you disconsider that even similar people on Earth have quite different cultures themselves (just randomly compare the average person's way of thinking in modern middle east, japan, india and hunter-gatherer tribes for example).

If aliens of high intelligence exist, I think they will definitely be similar to humans, because of the principle of convergent evolution

Convergent evolution means nothing when the environment you've evolved from is completely different. Even barely scientific scifi canons show that pretty well, like the Mass Effect series where you get jellyfish aliens because they lived in some gas planet or something. Your statement would imply that fish should be shaped like humans because "convergent evolution" and is pretty retarded to be honest. It would only work for life that evolved in similar situations to Earth and even then it's not a given.

our most practical and theoretically sound method of space travel is technically banned under international law

What method is that?

 

[AN/ALR56]

The only chances we will begin to really explore space is to have Orion nuclear propulsion somehow be resurrected or make space x build something this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)
The problem is mostly the budgets of the current space programs are a joke, the entire f-35 fighter plane project will cost 1 trillion $$ (and we are not even sure the plane will perform as promised), more than enough to probably send a permanent base to Mars several times.
NASA budget is a anemic 20 billion/year you can't do much with that, that jeep sized robot you guys sent to Mars costed over 10℅ of the entire budget.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

It's not really any concern. Humankind should focus on Earth.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Humankind should focus on Earth.

At least for now. Having all one's eggs in one basket isn't necessarily a good thing. If humans remain confined to Earth, all it would take is one catastrophic event to make humans go extinct.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

At least for now. Having all one's eggs in one basket isn't necessarily a good thing. If humans remain confined to Earth, all it would take is one catastrophic event to make humans go extinct.

While I am not an alarmist who thinks we're going to destroy ourselves in the next 10,000 years, we will die off long before viable space travel for colonization occurs. Basically, governments will never agree on who gets to have what, will never cooperate on global efforts, the U.N will collapse and reform under a different name a million times, new nations will rise as old empires die, and after an endless cycle of that we'll go extinct for one reason or another. There will be no space colonies.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

[...] and after an endless cycle of that we'll go extinct for one reason or another. There will be no space colonies.

If true -- and it very well could be -- that sucks. Not necessarily for the rest of the universe though.

But what if the means of feasible and readily available faster than light travel were discovered, even if it's highly unlikely such a thing could happen?

 

[Un Platano]

If true -- and it very well could be -- that sucks. Not necessarily for the rest of the universe though.

But what if the means of feasible and readily available faster than light travel were discovered, even if it's highly unlikely such a thing could happen?

Not much outside of our solar syatem, really. Even if we created FTL transport, we wouldn't have anywhere to go with it. It wouldn't help us find other lifeforms because even without the logistical issues of finding it, it's impossible to check every potentially habitable planet for life, and setting up permanent colonies on exoplanets would in general be a waste of time for us unless FTL somehow became a commodity.

It would help us go to other places in the solar system, but I can only think of 3 places where we'd want to go anyway. We could check once and for all if there's any life on Europa and Enceladus, and it would allow for transport to Mars. Even with that though, I doubt we'd ever make the move. Mars would have the same issue as the moon: We'd go there, check it out, and leave because there's nothing interesting there. Not many people are prepared to spend the rest of their life alone in a trailer in the middle of the New Mexico desert, and that's what the Mars experience would boil down to.

Terraforming it into anything useful for us is unlikely unless we can begin a truly gargantuan project to restart its core (something to the tune of melting 2x10^10 cubic kilometers of iron) so that it would have a protective magnetic field. At the moment it has a paltry magnetic field and the radiation it receives would wreak havoc on water and life present there. Earth's background radiation is about 2.4 mSv per year. Mars' is almost 400. Certainly not enough to turn it into IRL Fallout, but enough to cause problems in generation after generation living there.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Not much outside of our solar syatem, really. Even if we created FTL transport, we wouldn't have anywhere to go with it.

If fast FTL travel were developed and it were possible to visit a large number of solar systems in short voyages, it could be easy to find habitable worlds -- or at least ones with a wealth of natural resources. And even if there "isn't much out there" as far as habitable worlds are concerned, the technology to live in otherwise hostile environments could be developed -- like creating artificial Earthlike environments in domes or space stations.

As for creating shields around planets, it's possible that sufficiently advanced technology could create artificial protective shielding without needing to mess with a core.

 

[TowinKarz]

I've heard another argument thrown around: what if -- and despite the age and vastness of the universe -- Earth is among the very first worlds (if not THE first) in the universe to reach a "Space Age" level of technology?

I see it more as a case of being able to reach it before the naturally-occurring extinction cycle hits the planet. If you go by the mantra of "Earth isn't THAT special" then you'd have to assume every planet capable of supporting complex life has had that wiped out by meteor/comet impact, dinosaur-like, several times, and no matter how advanced a civilization grows, it can't reach "interstellar travel" before the cosmic egg timer gets reset?

People tend to forget that Earth may very well be a planet of odd reptilian lifeforms to this day, if not for luck and randomness. And, who's to say the "aliens" we're trying to pick up old TV transmissions from are too busy grazing to get around to inventing TV?

It's an interesting question.

 

[keksz]

If fast FTL travel were developed and it were possible to visit a large number of solar systems in short voyages, it could be easy to find habitable worlds -- or at least ones with a wealth of natural resources. And even if there "isn't much out there" as far as habitable worlds are concerned, the technology to live in otherwise hostile environments could be developed -- like creating artificial Earthlike environments in domes or space stations.

As for creating shields around planets, it's possible that sufficiently advanced technology could create artificial protective shielding without needing to mess with a core.

We already have the technology to set up a primitive colony on Mars which is not extreme but certainly hostile as far as environments go. We also have in recent years discovered a few good examples of exoplanets that we believe are very similar to Earth in many aspects.

It's not hard proof but it seems that really the only thing preventing us from reaching into outer space as a race are the travel times - or at least to start the long journey of creating and refining the technology needed to sustain human life outside of Earth. Maybe that "impossible" propulsion engine that is going to be tested soon will be a game changer? Optimistic but that was what people were saying when they thought it was impossible to make - and now they're making it so I guess we're gonna find out.

 

[Pandinus Imperator]

@keksz the problem is that it's highly improbable that life could ever exist in environments significantly different from Earth's to begin with, and if they did, the extreme conditions would not allow them to evolve beyond simple organisms. Science fiction is not science.

My post was speaking in terms of sapient lifeforms, which can only exist when a vast number of conditions align just right.

 

[Todesfurcht]

The most tricky things about alien life is how they view us.
For all we know, aliens are aware we exist, but to them we're microorganisms. Maybe we've already stumbled upon intelligent life, but they're microorganisms for us too.
Thought for the brain.

 

[keksz]

it's highly improbable that life could ever exist in environments significantly different from Earth's

You absolutely don't know that. You may think you know but not even the highest ranking biologist out there can say anything like that with any certainty. The only way we could be positive about that was if we found a ton of life out there and it was only on planets like Earth and nowhere else - and even then it would only prove that's more likely, not that it's a requirement unless someone comes out with an axiom beyond doubt of why it must be so.

We have a sample rate of 1 planet with life. That is not enough to prove anything regarding anything about life in outer space. We can say we know about how life is distributed in our solar system but then again, that says nothing regarding the vast scope of the universe.

 

[Antipathy]

What method is that?

Nuclear pulse propulsion, (http://www.oriondrive.com/p1_story_how.php https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion) currently banned by what is called the Outer Space Treaty (https://www.state.gov/t/isn/5181.htm http://legal.un.org/avl/ha/tos/tos.html) due to the use of atomic warheads.

 

[keksz]

It's a shame. Could use some of the decommissioned ones for good instead.

Literally a nuclear pulse/plasma engine. Very cool. Thanks for the link, I had never heard of it! Although I think it's kind of bad taste to name a test project Daedalus...