Schopenhauer sucks

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Schopenhauer was just a rich spoiled twat who nursed a grudge-boner against Hegel.

ShittyRecolor dijo:
His philosophy did spawn a considerable number of pretentious cunts, that's for sure.
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And inspired the most laughably overblown and obnoxious opera of all time, Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. If there is a work deserving of the Eurotrash treatment, this is it.
 
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Positron dijo:
Schopenhauer was just a rich spoiled twat who nursed a grudge-boner against Hegel.


And inspired the most laughably overblown and obnoxious opera of all time, Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. If there is a work deserving of the Eurotrash treatment, this is it.
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Come, tell me why you detest Tristan und Isolde so?
 
Fareal dijo:
Come, tell me why you detest Tristan und Isolde so?
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Unsympathetic scenario (the immoral love is not even what disturbed me most; it is the notion that, since Isolde saved Tristan's life once, his life is automatically forfeit to her); unsympathetic protagonist (by which I mean Isolde; when we first take a good look at Tristan he's already doped and duped); goes on and on for no good reason. In a mailing list I described this opera as a "four-hour coitus". Of course I got a lot of flak for it, but that is what it basically is.

What are not bad about this opera is the music (it is revolutionary and rightfully deserving of the mountains of analysis done to it), or even Wagner's characterization. From the very start, when Isolde overheard sailors singing a song about an "Irish maid", she immediately takes offense because she thinks they're singing about her -- you know this woman is quite a piece of work.

But since it is Schopie we're talking about, Der Ring is at its core even more Schopie -- Old World Order based on hierarchy and contract becomes corrupt and powerless, and must be destroyed through a fire of libidinous passion. I don't have nearly as much issue with Der Ring because there is more drama to it, and its length is by and large justified.
 
Última edición:
Positron dijo:
Unsympathetic scenario (the immoral love is not even what disturbed me most; it is the notion that, since Isolde saved Tristan's life once, his life is automatically forfeit to her); unsympathetic protagonist (by which I mean Isolde; when we first take a good look at Tristan he's already doped and duped); goes on and on for no good reason. In a mailing list I described this opera as a "four-hour coitus". Of course I got a lot of flak for it, but that is what it basically is.

What are not bad about this opera is the music (it is revolutionary and rightfully deserving of the mountains of analysis done to it), or even Wagner's characterization. From the very start, when Isolde overheard sailors singing a song about an "Irish maid", she immediately takes offense because she thinks they're singing about her -- you know this woman is quite a piece of work.

But since it is Schopie we're talking about, Der Ring is at its core even more Schopie -- Old World Order based on hierarchy and contract becomes corrupt and powerless, and must be destroyed through a fire of libidinous passion. I don't have nearly as much issue with Der Ring because there is more drama to it, and its length is by and large justified.
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Ahhh, I misunderstood. I entirely agree, the plot is bollocks but the score is monumental. To be fair, we can probably say this about a number of other operas. I recently sat through Pelleas et Melisande and despite lovely performances, I was pissed off with every character by the end of the first act and glad they were dying by the end.

I do wonder if I would enjoy some operas more if the supertitle had never been invented. I would be less aware that the plot is frequently bollocks and the characters frequently hideous. (Special shout out to Pinkerton in Madama Butterfly here)
 
My main gripe with Schopenhauer's anti-natalist philosophy is that no matter how he dressed it up in turgid prose, it basically amounted to the fact that Schopenhauer himself was personally unhappy with his own life so nobody else should be allowed to have fun, either.
 
Fareal dijo:
Ahhh, I misunderstood. I entirely agree, the plot is bollocks but the score is monumental. To be fair, we can probably say this about a number of other operas. I recently sat through Pelleas et Melisande and despite lovely performances, I was pissed off with every character by the end of the first act and glad they were dying by the end.

I do wonder if I would enjoy some operas more if the supertitle had never been invented. I would be less aware that the plot is frequently bollocks and the characters frequently hideous. (Special shout out to Pinkerton in Madama Butterfly here)
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Oh Pélleas. Let's move to the classical music thread shall we?
 
Nah, I think his thoughts about Wille zur Leben kind of make sense. Life is miserable for most living creatures anyway, and still they cling onto it desperately. I find it interesting how his ideas influenced Nietzsche.
 
Dr. Voss dijo:
Nah, I think his thoughts about Wille zur Leben kind of make sense. Life is miserable for most living creatures anyway, and still they cling onto it desperately. I find it interesting how his ideas influenced Nietzsche.
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Well, according to that, we should just exterminate all life. Most humans would not agree with you if you tried to do this to them, though, and even animals would fight back. I'm not exactly thrilled about every aspect of my existence or existence in general, but on the whole, it is better to be than not to be.
 
AnOminous dijo:
Well, according to that, we should just exterminate all life. Most humans would not agree with you if you tried to do this to them, though, and even animals would fight back. I'm not exactly thrilled about every aspect of my existence or existence in general, but on the whole, it is better to be than not to be.
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I don't think that's what he means. Antinatalism sucks but I don't see Schopenhauer as antinatalist per se. The fact that I don't want to end my existence even though I can't enjoy it constantly is a result of "the will." He says that the way to alleviate suffering is to deny the will, however he doesn't mean suicide. By committing suicide one recognizes the will; suicide signifies a will for a different kind of existence. Instead, according to Schopenhauer, one should use asceticism, meditation, and art to eventually induce a state in which suffering is relieved (albeit temporarily).

I'm not saying I completely agree with Schopenhauer, but some of his thoughts make sense. I've always been a pessimistic person I guess, so it resonates well with me.
 
Positron dijo:
Schopenhauer was just a rich spoiled twat who nursed a grudge-boner against Hegel.


And inspired the most laughably overblown and obnoxious opera of all time, Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. If there is a work deserving of the Eurotrash treatment, this is it.
Presiona para expandir...

Credit where credit's due, the Tristan chord is pretty awesome. You can take an ordinary E phrygian chord progression of Am-G-F-E, put said Tristan chord between E and F as a filler\transistional chord and it will sound super interesting.
 
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