🐱 Revolutionary Villains Are Turned Into Monsters so That We Don’t Support Them - Meanwhile it’s okay to make red skull Jordan Peterson

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I know that I, like many a viewer of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, had been thinking for weeks, “Karli Morgenthau hasn’t really done anything wrong.” The leader of the Flag-Smashers was using her serum-powered group to bring vaccines, medicine, food, and supplies to people still in displacement camps post-Blip. Uh, okay! Cool. I fully support this?

It was difficult to understand why we should find Erin Kellyman’s Karli and the Flag-Smashers at fault, especially when that was the opinion of new and terrible Diet Captain America John Walker. And in the most recent episode, Karli continued to be portrayed as caring about others and sympathetic throughout—that is, until the final moments.

“I just don’t feel like she’s a villain at all,” I loudly declared, mere seconds before TFATWS chose to make Karli into a villain-villain. At least I saw that shift coming. As soon as Karli said she wasn’t taking her car and told her companion Dovich (Desmond Chiam) to put on his seatbelt, I knew the car they left behind was going to explode. And explode it did, creating a massive conflagration that set the building alight and no doubt killed many of the GRC (“Global Repatriation Council”) workers there. The Flag-Smashers had left them bound and helpless, making their fiery death all the more awful and cruel of an act.

“Oh,” I said after that. “Well, I guess they’re going the supervillain route after all.” I can’t say I was too surprised, even though the bombing felt totally discordant with what we knew about Karli and her mission. This out-of-nowhere, out-of-character act neatly fit a formula we’ve all watched play out countless times before.

Karli blowing up the building was so incongruous to what we’ve seen of her thus far that Dovich reacted with the horror the audience was meant to feel. “There were still people in there,” he said to Karli, to which she flatly responded, “This is the only language these people understand.” With the flip of—well, a car—our sympathetic antagonist was turned into a bad guy through egregious and indiscriminate violence. And this is a problem that we see all too often rendered unto “villains” who have worthy, society-shaking goals that we might otherwise find ourselves supporting.

A tweet went viral following this episode of TFATWS that was commenting on Karli’s turn, but also the greater issue of causing a revolution-minded villain to perform a monstrous act just when it seems like they might be making a bit too much sense.

Twitter user Oliver Darkshire continued with some tongue-in-cheek examples that nevertheless ring true for cinematic superhero storytelling: https://twitter.com/deathbybadger/status/1377981188489555971

There’s a fine line to tread with villains in general. We appreciate when villains are nuanced, interesting, and seem to have actual motivations for why they’re doing what they’re doing, rather than cackling and plotting to destroy the world just for kicks. But in superhero properties, there can be a huge gulf in how they’re portrayed based on how politically dangerous their ideas are. Is it a personal quest they’re on, or a world-changing one? The distinction matters.

Daniel Brühl’s Baron Zemo is a great example of a multifaceted villain whose aim is precise rather than threatening the foundations of society: he’s motivated to stop the Avengers and superpowered people in general because superheroes and supervillains got his family killed and his country destroyed.

We’re made to understand Zemo’s motivations—just like we understand when a hero is motivated out of a sense of vengeance for lost loved ones. And while Zemo clearly will undertake whatever means to an end he needs to get his result, he also is given the chance in Captain America: Civil Warto state that he doesn’t enjoy or get a sense of satisfaction from violence. Don’t get me wrong, he’s done horrible things, including the bombing of the U.N. that killed King T’Chaka, but it’s the nature of Zemo’s desire to notradically change the whole world that allows him to be seen as worthy of understanding in the MCU. He is, as one of the replies to the tweet thread puts it, a “classic sympathetic villain.”

The scope of Zemo’s battleground is quite personal and focused on a tiny subset of people—those with superpowers. He’s not (at least at the moment) trying to alter the course of the world order or take it over. And that’s partially why Zemo gets to act as a sort of sleek antihero in TFATWS(again, at least at the moment), who runs around with Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes and makes the audience laugh at his dancing.

This is in sharp opposition to how Karli Morgenthau is viewed; her aims should provoke sympathy, but her intended cultural impact is so big and so revolutionary that it threatens the status quo. As such she must be revealed as callously uncaring of human life by the same formula that the tweets above lay out.

We’ve seen this tactic employed with villains who seemingly have very good reasons as to why they’re doing what they’re doing—Black Panther’s Killmonger and X-Men’s Magneto spring to mind as the biggest examples of this from superhero films. These characters want to push back against systemic oppression, and so we see where they’re coming from. We may even root for them. Killmonger was right and Magneto did nothing wrongare phrases you’ll see often online. But then narratively, inevitably, they are made to do something so untoward that the audience is meant to cheer the heroes stopping them in the end.

I had really hoped The Falcon and the Winter Soldier would continue with the thread of Karli being a sort of Robin Hood figure, and have Sam and Bucky ultimately take her side against Walker. This could still happen, as the series has surprised me with some of its choices and direction. And The Falcon and the Winter Soldier certainly explores themes of forgiving people for past violence.

But I think it would have been a much bolder narrative choice to show a powerful rebellious leader that didn’tfeel the need to perform random murderous acts. That would have made any drive to stop Karli in her tracks all the more morally complicated and compelling. Now people like chief status quo defender and faux-Cap John Walker can point out that Karli killed a bunch of defenseless people and justify his antipathy toward her.


The point stands that our superhero media chooses to drive home, time and time again, that these rabble-rousers are up to no good when they come too close to unmasking the messed-up ways that our world works. How do you backpedal when you realize that your villain is making far more sense than the military-industrial complex the heroes so often draw upon?

“This is the only language these people understand.” When Karli speaks this line about her dissonant violent act, it’s hard not to feel like “these people” is actually directed at the audience. It’s as though we can’t be trusted to make the “right” decisions about who to support when villains are yanking back the curtain on the global inequalities and inequities that are making so many people’s lives miserable. We must have it spelled out for us in fire and blood to make sure we stay on the “right” side.

Hollywood superhero productions seem to think that excessive depictions of violence are the main markers that will help us identify villainy. They should trust us to make up our own minds. After all, we’re more than aware that evil can come in many forms under unfettered capitalism.
 
Hollywood superhero productions seem to think that excessive depictions of violence are the main markers that will help us identify villainy. They should trust us to make up our own minds. After all, we’re more than aware that evil can come in many forms under unfettered capitalism.
If Hollywood is still applying the kind of garbage censorship level restrictions and designs that long plagued comic books and animation, that says that Hollywood has some mad double standards and are scratching backs and taking kickbacks than a creative difficulty. And if anyone can't
Write your own capeshit then, nerd.
Then if someone else gets the throne for the next big thing in sequential art/comics/animation, well, they'd best read the story of the Hen And Her Bread and take a long hard look at where their lives have gone. No amount of fucking money can deter something people want as according to the times and the human condition, and by their own effort.

This is why anime and manga fucking boomed up in the 2000s out in the US and made a near entire generation of anime and manga fans denounce capeshit. If you can't remedy your shitty writing and "creative differences", you deserve to lose out. Get fucked.
 
I-is this meant to paint Red Skull as a villain? He isn't wrong.
It's consistent that "progressives" who loudly hated banks and multinationals support or turn a blind eye to them when rightie whities call out those institutions.

Makashima from Psycho-Pass is the good guy.

makashima.mp4
Yes. Nahisi Cotes turned the Red Skull into Jordan Peterson. Literally. Another panel talks about "The Ten Rules for Life."

Tim Pool pointed out that this just makes Nazism sound reasonable since they stretched the definition to include "Classical Liberalism."
 
Yes. Nahisi Cotes turned the Red Skull into Jordan Peterson. Literally. Another panel talks about "The Ten Rules for Life."

Tim Pool pointed out that this just makes Nazism sound reasonable since they stretched the definition to include "Classical Liberalism."
Nigel Farage was put in Judge Dredd. I guess personal sperging and poor writing go hand in hand.
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Hitler also told people to clean their rooms. Curious.
 
A tweet went viral following this episode of TFATWS that was commenting on Karli’s turn, but also the greater issue of causing a revolution-minded villain to perform a monstrous act just when it seems like they might be making a bit too much sense.

Real-world revolutionaries often do the same, if not support such violent acts at the very least. People thought that the 'Third Position' was maybe onto something during the interwar years until they ramped up their militarism.

Most western commentators would probably sympathise with some of the aims of the PLO and their associates, but outright disagree with their methodology.
 
Can someone here tell me what's the whole story around the villainess here? My guess is that she kills men and has breasts (or at least man titties) and thus is seen as a good girl who dindu noting.
 
Can someone here tell me what's the whole story around the villainess here? My guess is that she kills men and has breasts (or at least man titties) and thus is seen as a good girl who dindu noting.
Genderbent version of captain America villain flagsmasher. Leftie who wants no countries or borders.
 
Good thing Jordan took it in stride.

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Bad Austrian Man was also a fan of charitable works. Guess he did nothing wrong, desu.
The Austrian Painter also organized one-pot meals for everyone.

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ON OCTOBER 1, 1933, GERMANS sat down to an unusually frugal Sunday lunch. For decades, even centuries, the norm had been a roast dinner, usually characterized by a great, bronzed hunk of animal, flanked by potatoes. This was the crowning glory of the week—a meal to be savored and celebrated. But that day, nine months after the Nazis first came to power, Germans ate simple, inexpensive food. Some ate Irish stew; others steaming pots of pea soup, made with Speck and dried beans. Another common dish was macaroni Milanese, a stodgy predecessor to mac and cheese flecked with a confetti of rosy ham. All these dishes had three important things in common: They were inexpensive; they were made in a single pot; and they had been officially sanctioned by the Nazis. This was the Eintopfsonntag campaign—a Nazi push to make German families eat one-pot meals. Eventually, it would endure well into the Second World War and popularize these stews, soups, and pilafs in Germany for generations to come. The impetus was an annual charity drive, the Winterhilfswerk, run by the Nazis to feed and clothe veterans and the poor throughout the winter. Wealthier Germans were expected to pitch in as much as they could, but actually getting people to cough up cash had proven challenging. So, in October 1933, the Nazis developed a new campaign centered around these one-pot meals.

Soup kitchens = literal nazism, any time now.
 
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This dumbass author. Of course you're supposed to ultimately side against the villain. And making the villain seem honest and fair from the outset is a tactic to make the sudden reveal of their true colors all the more revolting later.

This is just not your typical Disney villain, which honestly is a good thing, but this generation grew up with Disney so they think that's the only way villains should be portrayed. A villain can have perfectly noble and lofty goals, and their means to achieve that end is what makes them a terrible person. That's much more interesting than someone who is only looking for money and power. And as some posters mentioned here in the thread, it's a stark reminder of why revolutionaries in the real world are not actually a good thing.
 
Good thing Jordan took it in stride.

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https://youtube.com/watch?v=12dHllRX2RI
The Austrian Painter also organized one-pot meals for everyone.

Ver archivo adjunto 2069597


Soup kitchens = literal nazism, any time now.
Well, if you want to get started on how to diversify your soup kitchen, there's a good place to start.
 
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