/r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

[Messiah Mike]

by the way @BulbaInq303 I think you can drop the sweden proposal since I don’t think it’s a google doc

I’m busy a-logging jer right now and I don’t want to go back into my discord dms with mikeynohmore so I can find the link

 

[BulbaInq303]

Maybe the logic is basically canadas logic? basically trump bad so we vote trudeau, obama sucks so we vote conservative

Swedens position might be based off of pure contrarianism since they hate germany for not being heckin democratic, yet rely on them for basically all their major goods so all they can really do is lash out like an impudent child to own the chuds

which ends in failure because niggers aren’t standing a chance against the pakt just because sweden sends a couple guns

Oh, you're definitely right, there would be some swedish "Chuds" who would hate Germany for being racist and authoritarian and would love to help African "freedom fighters", but it's the logistics and geopolitical reality that is the tripping point for me. As soon as the Germans or the British Garrison finds Swedish guns in the hands of Africans, it will not be hard to attract them back to the Swedish government, which would lead to massive consequences for the Swedish government. Honestly, if I were designing Sweden, it would be a mechanic like the Requiem South Africa mechanic about keeping the Nazi happy, so they don't Hungarian Revolution you.

Because I am a frustrated writer/mod designer. This is what I would do without jumping the shark. Sweden is big into the Red Cross and humanitarian aid. So soon as the war starts, Sweden can start sending support equipment and "supplies" to Kenya. Of course, some of those supplies will fall into the rebels' hands. These supplies will help frustrate traditional German anti-partisan tactics. Still, because they are humanitarian aid and not actually weapons, the Nazi can't really do anything about it without looking horrible to their European allies and the international stage. Historically, Sweden was a major diplomatic middleman for Germany during the war. In the Cold War, that relationship would continue, with Germany using Sweden as a middleman between it and OFN. Cutting off the support would damage that relationship with Sweden. And maybe you get a chain event about some Swedish left-wingers who join the rebels in Kenya to fight the Germans.

 

[Randall Fragg]

A while back we discussed a possible Cold War alt-history scenario where widespread revolution actually broke out in 1968.
Given that it’s supposed to be a less than serious scenario, what if the point of divergence is a more sucessful Tet Offensive leads to a major military disaster for the US, causing LBJ to suffer a minor stroke that causes brain damage, causing him to become more erratic and paranoid. Johnson doubles down and escalates the conflict, believing that the American public will be eager to avenge the disaster. When the response is “dude, we’ve lost, stop throwing men into the meatgrinder” he chimps out hard, starts blaming everything on a widespread communist conspiracy, and starts cracking down on domestic opposition. Meanwhile, the American escalation and general outrage causes the May ‘68 protests in France to escalate into a full blown revolution, sparking a wave of revolutions across western europe. Which makes Johnson chimp even harder and try to send American troops to Europe, which goes about as well as you can expect.

 

[Messiah Mike]

Because I am a frustrated writer/mod designer. This is what I would do without jumping the shark. Sweden is big into the Red Cross and humanitarian aid. So soon as the war starts, Sweden can start sending support equipment and "supplies" to Kenya. Of course, some of those supplies will fall into the rebels' hands. These supplies will help frustrate traditional German anti-partisan tactics. Still, because they are humanitarian aid and not actually weapons, the Nazi can't really do anything about it without looking horrible to their European allies and the international stage.

This is a really good idea, why didn’t the devs make swedens support of african independence more of a humanitarian aim rather than sending military support to what europeans deem as communist terrorists?

All it does is make sweden look good but I guess we gotta have swedes needlessly die fighting the german war machine for people with an iq of 65

Found the sweden doc, let’s all point and laugh

https://files.catbox.moe/xlhrjj.pdf

 

[BulbaInq303]

This is a really good idea, why didn’t the devs make swedens support of african independence more of a humanitarian aim rather than sending military support to what europeans deem as communist terrorists?

All it does is make sweden look good but I guess we gotta have swedes needlessly die fighting the german war machine for people with an iq of 65

Found the sweden doc, let’s all point and laugh

https://files.catbox.moe/xlhrjj.pdf

Thanks, I think I read to old proposal so this should be interesting

 

[Sooty Soot]

Some nice TFR art that isn't waifu or anime bullshit for once.

 

[BulbaInq303]

This is a really good idea, why didn’t the devs make swedens support of african independence more of a humanitarian aim rather than sending military support to what europeans deem as communist terrorists?

All it does is make sweden look good but I guess we gotta have swedes needlessly die fighting the german war machine for people with an iq of 65

Found the sweden doc, let’s all point and laugh

https://files.catbox.moe/xlhrjj.pdf

So I finished listening to the Swedish proposal, and it's Lore for Sweden during World War II, makes general sense, and I like the Swedish intervention in the Winter War, and keep in mind this is a skeleton proposal, not a full content proposal.

Some of the in-game events for Sweden seem to be very boring and fall back into relying on events in our Cold War without them being reimagined for a German victory, like the left-wing surge in the late 60s, which, in my opinion, would not happen to the same extent in a Europe insulated against American influence by Nazi Germany and a world without a strong Marxist power. And I disagree with the idea that Germany would never militarily intervene against unruly neighbours or allies. In my reading, Germany should act more like the Soviet Union, pursuing a more aggressive foreign policy rather than a passive one relying on economic measures. If Sweden gets too left-wing or too friendly with America and doesn't have the bomb, Germany should definitely invade, and it would be a historical parallel to the Prague Spring.

 

[Messiah Mike]

So I finished listening to the Swedish proposal, and it's Lore for Sweden during World War II, makes general sense, and I like the Swedish intervention in the Winter War, and keep in mind this is a skeleton proposal, not a full content proposal.

Some of the in-game events for Sweden seem to be very boring and fall back into relying on events in our Cold War without them being reimagined for a German victory, like the left-wing surge in the late 60s, which, in my opinion, would not happen to the same extent in a Europe insulated against American influence by Nazi Germany and a world without a strong Marxist power. And I disagree with the idea that Germany would never militarily intervene against unruly neighbours or allies. In my reading, Germany should act more like the Soviet Union, pursuing a more aggressive foreign policy rather than a passive one relying on economic measures. If Sweden gets too left-wing or too friendly with America and doesn't have the bomb, Germany should definitely invade, and it would be a historical parallel to the Prague Spring.

I 100 percent agree, although I don’t think a swedish intervention should automatically mean a fascist government. I think if a germany player managed to have good relations with certain factions of swedish politics, they should collaborate with the germans when they overthrow a particularly anti pakt government. An invasion shouldn’t be a guaranteed end to swedish democracy, just a major blow to it’s legitimacy

A fascist path should be present of course but only if you as a germany player make the choices to get one. Also sweden getting couped by the germans should have some rather steep stability penalties

also here’s the flowchart, it’s just as gay as expected

 

[BulbaInq303]

I 100 percent agree, although I don’t think a swedish intervention should automatically mean a fascist government. I think if a germany player managed to have good relations with certain factions of swedish politics, they should collaborate with the germans when they overthrow a particularly anti pakt government. An invasion shouldn’t be a guaranteed end to swedish democracy, just a major blow to it’s legitimacy

A fascist path should be present of course but only if you as a germany player make the choices to get one. Also sweden getting couped by the germans should have some rather steep stability penalties

also here’s the flowchart, it’s just as gay as expected

Oh, definitely, it should be a national socialist government, at least not initially. It would probably be a paternalistic "National conservative" government under some caretaker coalition until an election could be organised later, between maybe a Pro-German social democratic party, a conservative coalition, and a Far-right coalition. Stuff like this is why I'm interested in TNO. The alternative Cold War geopolitics is more interesting to me than the depressing dystopia aspect they push.

 

[BulbaInq303]

Another thing they don't explore in The Proposal is the effect of Sweden and Finland losing the war against the Western Russian warlord. A defeat of that magnitude, in my opinion, would collapse the Swedish government and cause a massive jump in support for Germany and for the right wing and the far right. If anything, the far right is completely forgotten about in the proposal once they get to the skeleton content.

 

[Messiah Mike]

Oh, definitely, it should be a national socialist government, at least not initially. It would probably be a paternalistic "National conservative" government under some caretaker coalition until an election could be organised later, between maybe a Pro-German social democratic party, a conservative coalition, and a Far-right coalition. Stuff like this is why I'm interested in TNO. The alternative Cold War geopolitics is more interesting to me than the depressing dystopia aspect they push.

Same here man, One of the more fascinating parts of this mod is just some of the things that didn’t happen in our timeline but could happen here like colonialism being maintained or parliamentary fascism in britain

Probably my favorite part of the mod conceptually is manchuria since there really isn’t a state like that otl and it has so much narrative potential. Hell i’m so in love with the concept that i’m currently writing out my own version of the park chung hee/takagi masao path purely for my own entertainment. It’s really fun honestly, just trying to write out how park becomes a die hard manchurian nationalist who seeks to bring unity to his new country because he can no longer see korea as his home anymore and wants to build something worthwhile in his new homeland of manchuria

The only thing about park I didn’t change was his love life because I didn’t think it was right to strip away his life long love because the events of them meeting don’t happen in the same order

 

[Messiah Mike]

Another thing they don't explore in The Proposal is the effect of Sweden and Finland losing the war against the Western Russian warlord. A defeat of that magnitude, in my opinion, would collapse the Swedish government and cause a massive jump in support for Germany and for the right wing and the far right. If anything, the far right is completely forgotten about in the proposal once they get to the skeleton content.

That does happen in finland where a nazi government can come into power if they loose the war with sweden as their primary backer

It should be possible in sweden but hey I guess the devs really want sweden to be the liberal version of the islamic republic of iran in the middle of europe

 

[BulbaInq303]

That does happen in finland where a nazi government can come into power if they loose the war with sweden as their primary backer



It should be possible in sweden but hey I guess the devs really want sweden to be the liberal version of the islamic republic of iran in the middle of Europe

The impact of Russia winning would have a more drastic impact on Finland than on Sweden, probably opening them up to having some fascist populist party come to power, depending on who the United West Russia is. That new government would have an impact on Sweden and Russia winning would always have Finland joining Germany and abandoning its neutrality.

 

[Messiah Mike]

The impact of Russia winning would have a more drastic impact on Finland than on Sweden, probably opening them up to having some fascist populist party come to power, depending on who the United West Russia is. That new government would have an impact on Sweden and Russia winning would always have Finland joining Germany and abandoning its neutrality.

Oh well that’s exactly what happens in the flowchart lmao. Surprising how much a man can guess accurately by just using basic logic the devs refuse to use

 

[Messiah Mike]

also looking at britain content, why isn’t east africa set up like the british raj? like who is the viceroy? because even if you have native collaborators you should always have a viceroy to coordinate them and put down rebellions no?

 

[BulbaInq303]

also looking at britain content, why isn’t east africa set up like the british raj? like who is the viceroy? because even if you have native collaborators you should always have a viceroy to coordinate them and put down rebellions no?

I would need to look into how the British ran their African colonies. Some were protectorates with a class of native collaborators, as in Uganda, and others were direct colonies for resource extraction and settlement.

 

[Messiah Mike]

I would need to look into how the British ran their African colonies. Some were protectorates with a class of native collaborators, as in Uganda, and others were direct colonies for resource extraction and settlement.

That seems to be the case for DV but I think it would make sense for a britain desperate to make the colonies profitable to centralize the colonies under a single viceroy so protectorates and colonies could economically coordinate on development targets.

Moreover the prags making kenya an outright proctorate seems a bit odd to me, It should be a dual government where the natives handle civilian government like tax collection, policing, and low level bureaucratic postings while appointments from london handle the garrison and its native auxiliaries, high level bureaucratic offfices, and the ministry of finance

If you know the roman client kingdom system, then you know what i’m trying to get at

 

[H3H3 Podcast Higlights]

Do you guys use the spearhead mechanic for your tanks and special forces?

 

[Veliky]

Do you guys use the spearhead mechanic for your tanks and special forces?

Not really but when I do I just use it to follow the railways and capture the supply hubs. The only difference between it and the normal offensive arrow is that'll make the salient a little narrower.

 

[H3H3 Podcast Higlights]

Not really but when I do I just use it to follow the railways and capture the supply hubs. The only difference between it and the normal offensive arrow is that'll make the salient a little narrower.

Can you make encirclements like micro?