/r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

Win or Lose the cold war it doesnt matter. The world is destinied to converge to the modern worldview of the Devs which is le hecking evil white supremacy (with mass immigration & lgptq+ characteristics).
Show me where it’s inevitable, Show me where the modern world of mass migration and gay shit is inevitable and cannot be changed by the player. Because even if you get debuffs or some preachy event, You can go full chud. Even the preachy events are a good thing. “oh no some poor heckin brownerino is suffering!” Ok, I want the browns to suffer for fucking up my country. I’ll just ignore the event and keep chugging along because you as the player can simply just not care about what some of the events say
 
Show me where it’s inevitable, Show me where the modern world of mass migration and gay shit is inevitable and cannot be changed by the player. Because even if you get debuffs or some preachy event, You can go full chud. Even the preachy events are a good thing. “oh no some poor heckin brownerino is suffering!” Ok, I want the browns to suffer for fucking up my country. I’ll just ignore the event and keep chugging along because you as the player can simply just not care about what some of the events say
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Does TNORA still struggle with the same issue of non democratic countries being impossible to win? I was playing as the Aryan Brotherhood and was about to reunify the last part of Russia. As the war was progressing, apparently the Aryans started to lose control over their subhumans, which caused a shit ton of awful debuts that I have no way to control at all. There was a decision to be able to fix it but it seems to be locked until I kill my opponent.

Was this supposed to happen? Am I just retarded?
There's a decision you need to take regularly to keep your aryan cohesion up if I remember correctly. Aryan brotherhood can become very powerful if my last playthrough with them was anything to go by.
Show me where it’s inevitable, Show me where the modern world of mass migration and gay shit is inevitable and cannot be changed by the player. Because even if you get debuffs or some preachy event, You can go full chud. Even the preachy events are a good thing. “oh no some poor heckin brownerino is suffering!” Ok, I want the browns to suffer for fucking up my country. I’ll just ignore the event and keep chugging along because you as the player can simply just not care about what some of the events say
It's not going to be what you hope for. Ask claude to code you a huttig genocide simulator and I think you'll get more enjoyment out of that then anything Last Days will offer you.
 
It's not going to be what you hope for. Ask claude to code you a huttig genocide simulator and I think you'll get more enjoyment out of that then anything Last Days will offer you.
Huttig shouldn't be survivable anyway, you're playing as Huttig for the fun of the depravity and to see how much you can wreck Africa, adding a path where Huttig KILLS ALL NIGGERS AND MAKES BASED WHITETOPIA is just A&N fan service.
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look I get that this opinion is controversial here, but i’ve never gotten a convincing reason as to why it’s wrong. If it’s just your own personal preference that’s fine, But at least state that. Because if we’re talking from simply a pure writing and lore standpoint, new tno is better.

How can someone honestly say that Man in the high castle is better than fatherland? If I can poke a million holes into your alternate history scenario, That’s not a good scenario. If I have to suspend my disbelief to simply ignore the real history, I really can’t take your work seriously

If I were to present this mod to someone like feral historian, and show the old version and the new one then ask to determine which is better. I’d say he pick the new version because it has something more interesting to say other than end of history, fascism always looses, Liberalism always wins
I think a good place to start with this is to paraphrase Josh: No one will hate you as bitterly as a scorned fan. This is the root of most current problems. Even if we grant you your premise for the sake of argument this entire endeavor is the iDubbbz of HOI4 modding, something that started out with an edgy fanbase that signed up for a wacky retro sci-fi adventure with Tabby, sun guns, Huttig and Mars expeditions and told them to fuck off. Congrats, you now have tens of thousands of embittered fans and over time they've ended up with dozens of angry ex-devs and present team members that hate the other parts of the team and leak everything they make.

Then there's the issue of progress. Reworking an entire mod from the ground up is taking several years with no end in sight. And for what? Most people never asked for what they're selling and changing the entire premise of the mod has so far taken more time than it took to make TFR from scratch and the best we can hope for is a demo for Germany at the end of this year. My point here is that even if you're correct then they'd have been better off making a new mod from scratch. It'd have taken less time and effort compared to replacing nearly everything and as an added bonus they wouldn't have the biggest hatebase in the entire HOI4 community. There is absolutely a place for grounded, realistic wargaming and historical analysis, but why turn a retro sci-fi mod named after a FPS schlock game Panzer liked into it? It makes no sense.

While we're on the subject: it's not an own to point out that something that never was meant to be realistic isn't realistic, you might as well pat yourself on the shoulder for pointing out that Lord of the Rings isn't realistic because magic is fake and then ask yourself how well a remake without fantasy elements would go over with that fanbase. The wacky mod full of unrealistic concepts should've stayed that way, and the people that hate that sort of thing shouldn't have tried to hammer a square peg through a round hole.

That's if we grant you the premise that you're correct which I don't think you are. No, a bunch of pseudo-intellectual neoliberals aren't trying to change the discourse around fascism and open up the eyes of a new generation to this line of thinking and you're barking up the wrong tree if you're hoping to use it to convince people like, the less said about bringing in e-celebs as judges the better. It isn't their intent since they clearly trend towards progressive values but considering the playerbase even if it was the goal then drowning them in dry events while nothing happens just isn't the way to go. If you want to build acceptance for these ideologies you'd be better off using humor and the rule of cool to sell it. In fact, the prevalence of memes about Dirlewanger, Burgundy and the like is likely a key contributing factor for why they've spent years trying to remove these things to little avail. So all this reworking is just an own goal from that perspective.

Another issue I've noticed with you, is that a lot of the positives are just things you made up yourself as you state in your more recent post:
I’ll just ignore the event and keep chugging along because you as the player can simply just not care about what some of the events say
You do this a lot like with your support for the Africa rework. You really ought to stop giving these people that much leeway. They don't agree with you, they never had the intent of giving you the things you want, and if you're going to use headcanon to fix it then you might as well make your own mod that's more appealing to your tastes.

This is not to say that there isn't a place for grounded works or that you're wrong for wanting something like that. I can see where you're coming from there. But chief, a neoliberal's nightmare vision built on the mangled body of a Nazisploitation sci-fi mod isn't going to grant you your wish.

tl;dr: Turning the funny Tabby/Huttig mod into a complete 180 of its original content was a bad idea and the neoliberals making this aren't making the kind of content you seem to want.

Does TNORA still struggle with the same issue of non democratic countries being impossible to win? I was playing as the Aryan Brotherhood and was about to reunify the last part of Russia. As the war was progressing, apparently the Aryans started to lose control over their subhumans, which caused a shit ton of awful debuts that I have no way to control at all. There was a decision to be able to fix it but it seems to be locked until I kill my opponent.

Was this supposed to happen? Am I just retarded?
AB is brutally hard by design. The Aryan control mech runs on a timer throughout the game and you're not intentionally being screwed but if you're too slow it will bite you in the butt, this on top of them being the weakest faction in Russia. Totally doable, it just sounds like you had a bad run at the end. On the right, I'd recommend Samara or Omsk for a more balanced challenge. Amur is also more manageable. On the left, all Soviet successor states are also a lot more reasonable. There's also Komi, which has extremes of both and is definitely doable as all non-democratic unifiers.
 
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Huttig shouldn't be survivable anyway, you're playing as Huttig for the fun of the depravity and to see how much you can wreck Africa, adding a path where Huttig KILLS ALL NIGGERS AND MAKES BASED WHITETOPIA is just A&N fan service.
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I remember posting bait like this on /pol/ around the 2016 era and I'd end up with a maxxed out thread in under thirty minutes. Good times, good times.
 
There's a decision you need to take regularly to keep your aryan cohesion up if I remember correctly. Aryan brotherhood can become very powerful if my last playthrough with them was anything to go by.
For some reason, that decision just simply won’t show up, making me lose lots of manpower and also made me lost lots of men when in combat.
 
tl;dr: Turning the funny Tabby/Huttig mod into a complete 180 of its original content was a bad idea and the neoliberals making this aren't making the kind of content you seem to want
hats off for the effort post. I’d make a longer response but i’m at work so this will do

The sum of my complaints is that there were two types of players when TNO came out, One who saw all the whacky shit and soyed out (aka the subreddit) and the other who wanted an honest interpretation of a three way cold war. I was in that latter camp and even as a 14 year old kid I felt let down because while the premise was good, The writing and world building was so atrocious I just couldn’t get into it. This thread was created to mock that writing and the absolute autism of the community that would soy out about burgundy and speer hoodies.

I was a fan, An earnest one at that, And I felt betrayed by the devs for basically hyping this mod up as a serious, Grim experience only to give something whacky and retarded. Not only did they not give fans like me what they wanted, They actively demanded that it be taken seriously when you have goring conquering the fucking planet with sun guns.

This thread was full of people like me, Then when TNO changed to accommodate the disappointed fans who wanted a narrative driven experience, all of a sudden you have a bunch of new detractors who hate the mod for the exact opposite reason as the original detractors. Now all of a sudden you have a reversal, Detractors like me are now on the devs side even though we hate their politics and personality and Fans on the subreddit are now against the devs for removing atlantropa and the wacky stuff.

For someone like me I was disappointed on release but gradually warmed up to the game as it changed. But for a lot of people here the exact opposite happened where they loved the game release yet hate everything after. For someone like me, It just doesn’t make sense. It’s like preferring cyberpunk 2077 at release or liking fallout the frontier when it had all the beasteality and pedophilia in it. I’m not saying that old TNO was nearly as bad as the examples I listed, It’s more to demonstrate my confusion because to me it’s having a preference for an inferior product
 
Almost at unification. I just needed to beat one last warlord till unification. I did use 8 APC/10 MBT as you said but that comprised only 1/7 of my total divisions as the rest are 9 Elit Inf/4 Arty.
Ah, I think you have run out of aryan sacrifices. Everytime you annex a nation you get one sacrifice point. You spend one point every time you annex a nation you get one sacrifice point.

This is a problem since you naturally annex less and less tags as the game goes on, so you will eventually run out.

What I will do is add a decision that let's you gain points in exchange for pp. I will also increase the number of points gained per annexation as you reach the regional stage and beyond.

Technical debt in TNO is a real killer.

Edit. It's in:
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The sum of my complaints is that there were two types of players when TNO came out, One who saw all the whacky shit and soyed out (aka the subreddit) and the other who wanted an honest interpretation of a three way cold war.
I was a fan, An earnest one at that, And I felt betrayed by the devs for basically hyping this mod up as a serious, Grim experience only to give something whacky and retarded.
So despite being able to see Lysenko's clone army scheme, Dirlewanger murder-rape franzy/5000 death events, Huttig's Vietnam War in South Africa against America, several wacky Russian warlords, a German civil war and much more in playable and observable form alike, you somehow convinced yourself that this was going to be a grounded, realistic 3-way cold war? You shouldn't have been surprised when you got exactly what was advertised and what you could play in the demos for yourself. That is, a lot of wacky and grimdark stuff, although the grimdark content clearly isn't your type of dark. You know, not that much unlike the games that Panzer stole the names of the demos and mod from. Do you think it's a coincidence that something named "Old World Blues" had overt Fallout references and sci-fi elements on release? Why did you expect something named and themed after the Wolfenstein reboot to be realistic or have a level-headed take on Nazi Germany?

All you had to do was boot up the demos and play them for five minutes to know that this wasn't going to be a grounded thing. And no, the community was hardly split on release. Most people realized that the mod that advertised itself with a German civil war and wacky Russian warlords wasn't going to be grounded.
This thread was full of people like me
No, it wasn't. People here weren't begging for the wacky Tabby mod to become more grounded. The thread got off the ground because Panzer had the worst opsec in the world and because Pacifica was a perv on Discord. People were criticizing on things like the railroading and forced narratives, but I assure you that no one was begging for them to replace Huttig's wild ride with OTLism but rather to get more freedom to actually play around in the world without the author telling them that they were doing it wrong. This is just a straight up false reality you're creating. I'm sure people like that existed, but itwas hardly a substantial plurality that were clamoring for it among the players. Most people that disliked what the mod was likely just did the reasonable thing: accepted that it wasn't for them and played something else instead instead of getting irrationally mad because something wasn't a genre that they liked.
Then when TNO changed to accommodate the disappointed fans who wanted a narrative driven experience, all of a sudden you have a bunch of new detractors who hate the mod for the exact opposite reason as the original detractors.
It wasn't made to accommodate you, you admitted yourself that you have to make up your own lore because you hate a lot what's actually there but choose to ignore it. The mod was also heavily driven by narrative from the start and had walls and walls of text even back then. You just hated the narrative and worldbuilding that was there, like you said yourself. It wasn't the addition of a lot of readable content that made the original fanbase turn on the mod but rather that they were told that everything they originally liked would get yanked away instead of being expanded upon.

The problem is that a lot of people did like the mod (or at least parts of it) which is why it was a fool's errand to do a total 180. They should just have made the mod you claim you wanted from scratch instead. This is the stupid part. It'd have been less work, none of the old fans would've been angry at the complete reversal and you'd likely have gotten it a lot sooner too since they wouldn't have been stuck reworking an entire setting to fit what they wanted. Instead we live in the worst of all worlds where TNO has been stuck in dev hell for a fifth of your life and the rest of us are at the mercy of GoodWinSon for keeping the old mod alive.
 
No, it wasn't. People here weren't begging for the wacky Tabby mod to become more grounded.
This is a verifiable lie, Litteraly just go to page one of the thread and read. Everyone is calling out the mod for the shitty writing and trash lore. You can watch the mad at the internet video on TNO that just got uploaded to hear the voice of josh moon in 2021 call out the mod for being fanfic bullshit disconnected from reality

Also don’t say that people calling out the devs for their shitty writing were a “minority” Nigga I was there, I remember the JTF video series and how popular they were, I remember the sneedposters mocking the lore, I remember the subreddit getting trolled so don’t say that i’m lying because I took part in the raids back in the day
 
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Ah, I think you have run out of aryan sacrifices. Everytime you annex a nation you get one sacrifice point. You spend one point every time you annex a nation you get one sacrifice point.

This is a problem since you naturally annex less and less tags as the game goes on, so you will eventually run out.

What I will do is add a decision that let's you gain points in exchange for pp. I will also increase the number of points gained per annexation as you reach the regional stage and beyond.

Technical debt in TNO is a real killer.
Wow! A dev that actually listens!

TrooNO devs would never or at the very least lie about progress.

Was the divisions I used good? My Tank divisions almost always run out of actual tanks and APC's just like in the base game whenever I go to war with a warlord, which consequently also led me to lack artillery since I put a decent amount of industry into Tanks and APCs.

Edit: Is it really a good idea to attach Aryan Sacrifices with PP? It also affects PP in a massive god awful way for me. Personally, I thought using command power would be a good idea like how you prepare for unification.
 
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Wow! A dev that actually listens!

TrooNO devs would never or at the very least lie about progress.

Was the divisions I used good? My Tank divisions almost always run out of actual tanks and APC's just like in the base game whenever I go to war with a warlord, which consequently also led me to lack artillery since I put a decent amount of industry into Tanks and APCs.

Edit: Is it really a good idea to attach Aryan Sacrifices with PP? It also affects PP in a massive god awful way for me. Personally, I thought using command power would be a good idea like how you prepare for unification.
Your divisions were good. Command power might not be too bad an idea, but you don't have much to spend pp on late game as Aryan Brotherhood anyhow. There's also an issue where some regionals don't get enough command power to declare war on their rivals, so I am reluctant to mess with command power until later.
 
Your divisions were good. Command power might not be too bad an idea, but you don't have much to spend pp on late game as Aryan Brotherhood anyhow. There's also an issue where some regionals don't get enough command power to declare war on their rivals, so I am reluctant to mess with command power until later.
That's nice. Although I'll probably gonna stick with just 9 Elites/4 Arty with support Arty, support Anti-Air, Logistics, Engineer, and Hospital so that I actually have the equipment to fight in wars.
 
This is a verifiable lie, Litteraly just go to page one of the thread and read. Everyone is calling out the mod for the shitty writing and trash lore. You can watch the mad at the internet video on TNO that just got uploaded to hear the voice of josh moon in 2021 call out the mod for being fanfic bullshit disconnected from reality
That's not the same as people asking for it to become a super serious piece instead, that's just an over correction. Like I said: people by and large wanted more freedom to do what they wanted without being lectured, less railroading and less unwarranted dev egos.

But to the core of it, again: they should just have made a mod of their own instead of reworking one with an existing fanbase from the ground up to be something completely different. I think everyone would've been happier then. It's not that you can't have grounded or serious content but the fact that they used a wildly unrealistic sci-fi mod as the base was a huge mistake.
 
But to the core of it, again: they should just have made a mod of their own instead of reworking one with an existing fanbase from the ground up to be something completely different. I think everyone would've been happier then. It's not that you can't have grounded or serious content but the fact that they used a wildly unrealistic sci-fi mod as the base was a huge mistake.
The problem was that they courted people who wanted serious shit while also courting people who wanted wacky shit. They had to split the baby and took the people who wanted a grounded story, Because if you were around back then, You would know that TNO fans had an absolutely abysmal reputation for constantly shitting up other communities and spamming shitty memes. There is a reason that “is that a tno reference” copypasta exists, old TNO fans were genuinely fucking insufferable
 
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