Culture Peacemaker Just Admitted Batman's No Kill Rule Is Ridiculous


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James Gunn’s Peacemaker just pointed out the major flaw with Batman’s infamous “no kill” rule, and why Ben Affleck’s DCEU Dark Knight was right to break it. The latest episode of Gunn’s outrageous The Suicide Squad spin-off sees John Cena’s titular hero examining what it means to be a hero as the shadow of his own origin story made itself clear.

Peacemaker is a surprisingly complex take on heroism, presenting The Suicide Squad’s most hated character - largely for his murder of Rick Flag - as far more sympathetic than his first Task Force X appearance could get close to. The show has begun to explore more of Peacemaker’s unique take on justice and where his idea that the law can be broken and blood can be spilled in the name of the greater good comes from. Through a slightly different lens, without the influence of his white supremacist father, DC comics villain White Dragon, Peacemaker isn’t all that different to Batman himself. Both are vigilantes who take the law into their own hands, it’s just that Peacemaker gets whatever it takes done.

Peacemaker has already taken various shots at Batman, calling him a “p*ssy” in Smith’s estimation and indirectly insulting Batman’s use of the conspicuous Batmobile. But Peacemaker episode 4 offers the most overt Batman criticism yet as Peacemaker suggests that Batman refusing to kill criminals just gives them the chance to escape and kill victims, implicating Batman as an indirect killer. And he has a point, given the frequency with which villains typically reappear to reoffend, though it’s never been a huge issue in the movies as much as it was in the comics. Nolan's Scarecrow (Cillian Murphy) is the obvious exception, given his appearance in all three of the Dark Knight trilogy movies, which wouldn't have been possible if Batman had killed him off in Batman Begins.

While Batman’s “no kill” rule is a subject of considerable debate in the movie universe, given that there are several examples where he clearly breaks it or at best bends it terrible, it remains his most notorious principle. Batman believes that preventable deaths are a personal failure, no matter how much force he has to use. Ben Affleck’s Batman is something of an exception, of course, but his circumstances were vastly different and the stakes he faced were world-threatening, not just Gotham-level. Peacemaker’s mockery of Batman and assessment that he should adopt that full-throttle approach for every opponent may seem extreme, but it would theoretically achieve what always Batman sought, the eradication of crime in Gotham. At least by removing key re-offenders like Joker and Riddler. And the very fact that Affleck's Batman drops his commitment to the rule when faced with a higher level of threat suggests the problem with the rule in the first place: Batman simply doesn't count the murderers he takes down in Gotham as a big enough deal to kill them. Perhaps Peacemaker has a point, then.

The difference with Peacemaker, of course, is that his origin story was borne out of hatred, thanks to his father’s bigotry. His twisted sense of morality came from his father’s lack of value for human life, while Batman was created out of a traumatic loss of life. Batman’s "no kill" rule may seem like a weakness to Peacemaker, but that’s sort of the point, and the real difference between the pair that Cena's warped "hero" will probably come to explore himself a little more. And it’s James Gunn’s genius in Peacemaker that his criticism of Batman’s approach to justice actually holds some sway.
 
I like how Batman explained himself in the “Under the Red Hood” DC animated film (neeeerrrrrddd!!!!)

Jason Todd asked him why he didn`t kill the Joker after he had (apparently) killed Todd (during the Death in the Family arc from the 80s). Batman explained that if he started killing, he would never stop, and that someone would eventually have to stop him.

The real reason, of course, being that comic writers didn`t want to keep coming up with new villians. You can only change a mobster`s name so many times.
 
I've always liked to think that the reason Bruce doesn't kill is because he saw how gut-wrenchingly terrified his own parents looked when they were murdered, and he doesn't want to be responsible for anyone else to having to experience that.
 
I like how Batman explained himself in the “Under the Red Hood” DC animated film (neeeerrrrrddd!!!!)

Jason Todd asked him why he didn`t kill the Joker after he had (apparently) killed Todd (during the Death in the Family arc from the 80s). Batman explained that if he started killing, he would never stop, and that someone would eventually have to stop him.

The real reason, of course, being that comic writers didn`t want to keep coming up with new villians. You can only change a mobster`s name so many times.
Isn't that what the dude who wrote Dick Tracy did? Kill off the villains only to bring them back as either family members or copycats, usually with a pallet swap and the name beginning with a different letter or being slightly diffent in some way.
 
First of all, Peacemaker is boring. Our thread here on it is dying on the vine because people can't even be bothered to criticise it. I genuinely have more fun with Batwoman where at least the wokeness makes me laugh rather than Peacemaker's poe-faced self-assured righteousness. I mean, we open it with a janitor lecturing him on how minorities face more convictions due to being over-policed, then next we have a prison scene where 4 out of 5 prisoners are White because they don't want to show Black criminals. It's not even consistent in its propaganda. Also, I really don't want to normalize close-ups on someone's pussy on mainstream shows. And I particularly don't consider that passing for comedy. Peacemaker is like a less funny Batwoman. And articles like this are just faux-controversy to try and pump up discussion of the show.

We all know that Batman has to be written not to kill because otherwise you run out of villains and have to keep rebooting things (imagine DC with more reboots!). Also, Batman is an adolescent power fantasy, at its root, and you don't want to be doing kids messaging saying "murder is good".

But that aside, it's entirely possible to justify his no killing rule in-universe without being egregious. He doesn't want to kill. Most of us don't want to kill. About 1-2% of the human male population don't have the major off-switch in our brains that makes it really hard for us to kill. And of that 1-2% it breaks down 50:50 between those who it merely means they can kill and make a quick psychological recovery - the "can if they have to" types and the psychos that want to kill. Despite more recent edgy justifications of "he can't let himself or else he'll never stop" as @Butcher Pete mentions above gaining popularity you don't even need them. You just need to say: "he doesn't want to be a murderer". When did we as a society think someone needs more justification than that?

Plus, there's the simple legal and societal reasons for it. Batman spies on criminals - okay, minor human rights violations. Batman solves crimes - totally fine. Batman interrupts criminals in their acts of crime - mostly fine. Batman uses threats and physical pain to get information from criminals - human rights violations but for a lot of them he could, probably, spin some passable defence if it ever came to it in court: "if he didn't tell me where the hostage was that little girl would have died. This is justifiable use of force". I am not a lawyer and not even trying to say he wouldn't be in trouble - just that there is a big jump between what Batman does and acting as the judicial system and handing out death sentences without trial. Batman is a good guy. Maybe people have forgotten what that is but he doesn't need to kill. He stops, captures and hands to the judicial system to process. AND THAT IS OKAY.

So to summarise my three points: we all know that it has to be this way for the series to continue; even if it weren't there's perfectly fine in-universe reasons we can use, including the currently in vogue "he can't give in" version; this article is trying to manufacture controversy to get attention for an exceedingly mediocre current show.
 
All of the criticism never mentions he doesn't have to do any of it. He goes out and chooses to fight crime, he does it the way he wants. Leaving aside for a second the god level magic users and science shit that could solve most problems in dc, the average person doesn't do shit to make anything better. It comes down to hey i don't think your heroing is good enough so ill try and guilt you into killing for me even though i wouldn't do shit to fix anything. be more like the guy raised like a violent literal neonazi terrorist and kill people i don't like or you don't value life.
 
I assume Batman no-killing rule was a holdover from times when the comic was aimed at kids and the Comics Code prevented overt acts of violence from being portrayed. It seems a little overkill to shoot Joker or the Penguin when they're just flamboyant weirdos pulling off non-lethal heists carrying off bags with dollar signs on them. When cartoons matured and started being made for older audiences, Batman's "no kill" policy should also have been altered into something a little more realistic. (Actually, given the sheer number of gruesome murders the Joker has committed, he should have been executed by the state long ago. His long run of escapes and consequent carnage are as much a fault of the government not taking the proper measures to stop a known terrorist as it is to Batman's lenience.)
 
peacemaker is canonically unhinged and that's been established since he popped up in the post-crisis comics iirc.

it'd be like taking the joker's words on batman's no-kill rule as serious dicussion.
 
I like Batman's no-kill rule because it doesn't just morally make him more of a hero than other protagonists, but also because it's a nice departure from the current vogue plot. Big bad introduced, big bad does extremely reprehensible thing to reluctant protagonist, this reprehensible thing then just serves to justify the protagonist committing a long string acts of extreme violence against big bad and big bad's associates. It all just gets so tiresome and really boils down most modern media to an awkward form of violence porn that tries to justify itself.

And it's getting to be lazy as fuck writing.
 
Has anyone ever watched a single episode of Peacemaker? I have literally never talked to a single person that has seen it, I have never heard it talked about, I have never seen any promo material outside of Jong Xina meme edits. Who is watching this show?
 
Has anyone ever watched a single episode of Peacemaker? I have literally never talked to a single person that has seen it, I have never heard it talked about, I have never seen any promo material outside of Jong Xina meme edits. Who is watching this show?
I watched the opening on youtube; and it immediately put me off. I already know what each of the characters is going to be like, and I don't like them.
 
I assume Batman no-killing rule was a holdover from times when the comic was aimed at kids and the Comics Code prevented overt acts of violence from being portrayed. It seems a little overkill to shoot Joker or the Penguin when they're just flamboyant weirdos pulling off non-lethal heists carrying off bags with dollar signs on them. When cartoons matured and started being made for older audiences, Batman's "no kill" policy should also have been altered into something a little more realistic. (Actually, given the sheer number of gruesome murders the Joker has committed, he should have been executed by the state long ago. His long run of escapes and consequent carnage are as much a fault of the government not taking the proper measures to stop a known terrorist as it is to Batman's lenience.)
"Code against killing" is a fairly ubiquitous trope in comics because 99% if the time stories end up terrible because how exciting is a story when the hero always has an easy way to deal with a problem?

It only works when the character is pretty much a monster like The Punisher or Rorschach and everybody knows it. If they're supposedly a heroic figure like Danvers as Captain Marvel dragging all of your opponents out into space so she can mock them as they die is just bad storytelling.
 
This is Batman Criticism 101, and doesn't tackle the responsibility of the state and justice system.

I hate how James Gunn is held up as biting satire. Its basic bitch stuff.
And has been done dozens of times in the comics by now, notably in interactions with Red Hood. And there are plenty of other heroes that will kill when pushed- Green Arrow notably went on a bit of a spree when Black Canary was tortured. A hero's prime concern is usually saving or aiding people.

But of course none of these people do anything but consoom TV. Not that I recommend reading comics these days, but... it's been done and Gunn isn't some genius.
 
Última edición:
Nerds during the 60s: Was Frodo right to spare Smeagol?

Nerds during the neo20s: Was Batman right to spare Joker?

I swear Internet makes people get dumber by the hour.
 
If you read/watch Batman and the most ridiculous thing in it for you isn't someone falling into acid and becoming a homicidal clown, or a man turning into a shape shifting monster from using experimental makeup, or a man falling into liquid nitrogen and becoming a man who must stay cold to survive, or a man getting acid thrown on his face causing him to become a 1940's gangster obsessed with the number two, etc. etc.

but that a billionaire dressed as a bat who fights crime instead of just paying off judges/police to actually do their jobs doesn't kill people you might be a fucking autistic retard faggot.
 
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