Paper Mario Series

[TheDarknessGrows]

As they all are rpgs they absolutely inherently are tied to Story focus

You make a good point. I want to push on this bit though.

What about RPGs like Etrian Odyssey that are map and spreadsheet focused? I've played a bunch of RPGs that are not inherently story driven games by virtue of their genre.

 

[Never Scored]

I wanted to really like Dream Team since Luigi had more of a focus that time around, but something about it just made me put it down after getting to a certain point. Can't really pinpoint what it was but all of a sudden I got that "I kinda don't want to touch this anymore" feeling.

Been a decade since I played it, but I recall getting to the point where it felt like a natural place to build to the finale, and then the game just throws like five hours of back tracking at you to pad out the run time and really really having to force myself through that bit.

The general consensus is Superstar Saga and Inside Story are the good ones and the other three are kind of meh. I played the Superstar Saga remake a couple years back and I had a good time, but I really like the battle system in the Mario and Luigi games, so your mileage will vary.

 

[Colon capital V]

Super Paper Mario is a game I want to like because it does ooze charm and Mimi is wife but my god is the gameplay aspect of the game so fucking awful, boring, not interesting, and it deliberately feels like it pads itself out for no reason other than to be a dick
i got to the last level of chapter 4 and haven't touched it then since I hear it doesn't get any better in the gameplay nor level design department and no story no matter how supposedly great is worth that kind of annoyance

Had a similar issue with OMORI, only it's kind of the opposite. Because I didn't mind SPM's gameplay as long as it was at least passable to go through (which it was), I'd gladly follow along a game's interesting story if it has passable and not annoying gameplay.
OMORI has SLOG gameplay + having to blast through slow dialog and cutscenes, it was BARELY on the verge of passable for this alone and I figured "as long as there's an interesting story to tell and see here, I'm willing to put up with some shit".
Needless to say, the "big twist" pretty much soured any experience I had put into this game and left me burnt out of ever wanting to replay it for the "extra lore" content in a different route.

 

[The Fatriarchy]

Super Paper Mario was the best when it came to writing out characters that weren't your own or the other supporting main characters. I don't have much of a memory of whether this occurs with the various other worlds, but characters in the main town areas continually have their lives go on after every chapter, and you can take a peek at their own inconsequential mini arcs that have nothing to do with you or your quest.

 

[TheDarknessGrows]

Super Paper Mario is a good game that is not Paper Mario. I also really liked Sticker Star for its improvements to the action command system, but the stickers were useless and that was also not Paper Mario.

 

[Banana Hammock]

My only memory of Super Paper Mario is playing for 30 minutes and then getting a refund from GameStop because it wasn't fucking Paper Mario.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

The full 2004 translation mod is in the works!


......aren't they still being "transphobic" by keeping Vivian a gir -

you know what, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth

 

[TheDarknessGrows]

The full 2004 translation mod is in the works!

This sort of effort (when the original exists just fine) is akin to cutting your dick off, becoming a tranny and then deciding to be a lesbian.

Why not just go back to step one and play/pirate the original and not chop off your dick?

 

[Two Dollars]

This sort of effort (when the original exists just fine) is akin to cutting your dick off, becoming a tranny and then deciding to be a lesbian.

Why not just go back to step one and play/pirate the original and not chop off your dick?

Because for the remake’s many, many problems, it does have some merits over the original. Why not fix the problems?

 

[0 0]

For future reference, this wiki for the franchise has a comprehensive list of every single change from the Gamecube version.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door_(Nintendo_Switch)#Differences

And yes, for every change like restoring the location names of the first game, there's a pointless censor of a character saying something mundane.

 

[LiquidKid]

You make a good point. I want to push on this bit though.

What about RPGs like Etrian Odyssey that are map and spreadsheet focused? I've played a bunch of RPGs that are not inherently story driven games by virtue of their genre.

Ironically for me, I get hardcore addicted to the map making in the etrian odyssey games, but I genuinely hate the mechanics of the combat system, and the fact that the inn gets more expensive every time you use it drives me up the wall.
I feel like those games would be so much better if instead of combat, you had to use your maps to avoid dangers

 

[JesusChristDenton]

Late to this but I saw some Sonic tranny seething over Gamebanana allowing a mod that restores the original 2004 localization without any disclaimers, meanwhile his transgender Sonic mod has a massive warning above it.
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I don't even know what this guy is mad about, the jannies closed the comments on his fetish mod to avoid people turning the comments section into a political minefield, it's almost like they want to keep discussions based on Sonic the Hedgehog, a VIDEO GAME, focused on the VIDEO GAME.

It's not enough for this freak to simply just gender swap Sonic and call it a day, he has to go out of his way to make sure everyone knows that this Sonic mod is his troon self insert.

Did a bit more digging and a little while back he got in hot water for making and favoriting porn of underaged Sonic characters, including Tails (8 years old) on his now-deleted porn account, as well as claiming that "bisexual lesbians" were a thing:
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Trannies being trannies, as usual.

>so have many, many other big sonic creators, i really don't care man
So you aren't even denying it "Lady" Lunanova? Not even some sperging about "aged-up" characters? (which is frankly a whole quagmire of autism that I don't want to get into in this post)

Average Nu-Sonic fan right here.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

None of the other stuff bothered me. I didn’t consider it sanitized, just different choice of wordings, and they were lines I didn’t like in the original either

You may be able to argue that for some of it, but it's objectively the case for the Goombella catcalling scene.

 

[LiquidKid]

You may be able to argue that for some of it, but it's objectively the case for the Goombella catcalling scene.

Agreed. The fat jokes being removed are also an odd censorship,
But I can personally live with all of that

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Agreed. The fat jokes being removed are also an odd censorship,
But I can personally live with all of that

If it wasn't for troons winning Vivian I might've been able to as well, but taken as a whole it's a neutered game.

 

[LiquidKid]

If it wasn't for troons winning Vivian I might've been able to as well, but taken as a whole it's a neutered game.

Well that and the Goombella catcalling are modded back into my game, so it wasn’t hard. And to be honest, I want this to do well because we haven’t had a real paper Mario game in 20 years, and this might be the only chance we get to convince Nintendo to make more

 

[Dynamite Bean]

And to be honest, I want this to do well because we haven’t had a real paper Mario game in 20 years, and this might be the only chance we get to convince Nintendo to make more

"If it sells well maybe we'll get another game"
Genuine question but do people like you who say this understand game development beyond a surface level? Because it feels like everyone who says this doesn't seem to understand how much factoring goes into making an amazing game and all it takes is one person gone for it to not be the same
such as do the people who worked on the first 3 paper mario games even still work at intelligent systems? do they still hold the same design philosophies?
also banking hope off of a remake of one of the most popular mario games isn't what you think it is, maybe if it was a remake of something like Super Paper Mario I could understand the thinking they could pull off the old formula again but this really sounds like people setting themselves up for disappointment

Maybe i'm just cynical and an asshole but I really don't see any new paper mario game being the same quality as the first two and there is valid reason why dead franchises that do return are often reboots completely different from the original

 

[LiquidKid]

"If it sells well maybe we'll get another game"
Genuine question but do people like you who say this understand game development beyond a surface level? Because it feels like everyone who says this doesn't seem to understand how much factoring goes into making an amazing game and all it takes is one person gone for it to not be the same
such as do the people who worked on the first 3 paper mario games even still work at intelligent systems? do they still hold the same design philosophies?
also banking hope off of a remake of one of the most popular mario games isn't what you think it is, maybe if it was a remake of something like Super Paper Mario I could understand the thinking they could pull off the old formula again but this really sounds like people setting themselves up for disappointment

Maybe i'm just cynical and an asshole but I really don't see any new paper mario game being the same quality as the first two and there is valid reason why dead franchises that do return are often reboots completely different from the original

Ryota Kawade, the director and chief game designer of the first 3 games, does still work for intelligent systems but hasn’t directed since super Paper Mario. He supervised the remake. I doubt if he wants to return to direct another game, but with this and Mario RPG we’re at least seeing interest from Nintendo in a return to form

It should also be noted after super paper Mario, he had been working as a producer for the fire emblem card game until 2020, which means he may still be interested in more paper Mario, but it’s hard to say

 

[Human Institute Director]

"If it sells well maybe we'll get another game"
Genuine question but do people like you who say this understand game development beyond a surface level? Because it feels like everyone who says this doesn't seem to understand how much factoring goes into making an amazing game and all it takes is one person gone for it to not be the same
such as do the people who worked on the first 3 paper mario games even still work at intelligent systems? do they still hold the same design philosophies?
also banking hope off of a remake of one of the most popular mario games isn't what you think it is, maybe if it was a remake of something like Super Paper Mario I could understand the thinking they could pull off the old formula again but this really sounds like people setting themselves up for disappointment

Maybe i'm just cynical and an asshole but I really don't see any new paper mario game being the same quality as the first two and there is valid reason why dead franchises that do return are often reboots completely different from the original

Honestly yes. There's a decent chance the next PM has ACTUAL rpg elements but don't ever expect it to be as good as 64/TTYD. You can see in the remake that these design philosophies were replaced. Just listen to the new incredibly overcomposed soundtracks that don't fit and are just this wacky for the sake of being extra wacky and overdoing it.

On the other hand I'd be fine if the remake sold more than TOK so Tanabe can neck himself.

 

[Colon capital V]

"If it sells well maybe we'll get another game"
Genuine question but do people like you who say this understand game development beyond a surface level? Because it feels like everyone who says this doesn't seem to understand how much factoring goes into making an amazing game and all it takes is one person gone for it to not be the same
such as do the people who worked on the first 3 paper mario games even still work at intelligent systems? do they still hold the same design philosophies?
also banking hope off of a remake of one of the most popular mario games isn't what you think it is, maybe if it was a remake of something like Super Paper Mario I could understand the thinking they could pull off the old formula again but this really sounds like people setting themselves up for disappointment

Maybe i'm just cynical and an asshole but I really don't see any new paper mario game being the same quality as the first two and there is valid reason why dead franchises that do return are often reboots completely different from the original

FWIW, every 4 years (barring the time between SPM and Sticker Star being 5) there has always been a new paper mario game to come to Nintendo consoles. So even if this doesn't convince developers to go back to the old formula, we can expect a new paper mario game to come out in 2028.