MMA & UFC General - Featuring Bellator MMA & Rizin Fighting Federation

[Pentex]

There's no reason why BJJ guys shouldn't focus more on top positional control over guard positions, it's just stubbornness.

The craziest thing about the BJJ cult is that the Gracies have been cross training going back to the days of Carlson and Rolls. Rolls was probably the most complete grappler the Gracie family ever produced (BJJ, Freestyle, Greco, Sambo, & Judo), and Carlson advocated for a more aggressive, pressure-heavy style of BJJ that got exemplified by his disciples who founded Brazilian Top Team. Even Helio, despite being the founding lineage of the more defensive style that got popular (good for little guys), knew Judo and Capoeira and used both in vale tudo matches.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

The craziest thing about the BJJ cult is that the Gracies have been cross training going back to the days of Carlson and Rolls. Rolls was probably the most complete grappler the Gracie family ever produced (BJJ, Freestyle, Greco, Sambo, & Judo), and Carlson advocated for a more aggressive, pressure-heavy style of BJJ that got exemplified by his disciples who founded Brazilian Top Team. Even Helio, despite being the founding lineage of the more defensive style that got popular (good for little guys), knew Judo and Capoeira and used both in vale tudo matches.

This is some street knowledge, but the Brazilians legit taught the Gringos incorrect techniques so they could still maintain an edge over the Gringos. The Triangle is the best example, you have to cut the angle not pull the head and they even went so far as to forbid doing the correct version on TV so nobody could steal their secrets.
To quote my Professor, the Brazilians are the sketchiest people as a race. It wouldn't surprise me if the whole "creonte" thing had a little something to do with that, and there's a reason Americans are better at BJJ and it's because we don't give a fuck and take whatever's useful from anywhere.

 

[Pentex]

This is some street knowledge, but the Brazilians legit taught the Gringos incorrect techniques so they could still maintain an edge over the Gringos. The Triangle is the best example, you have to cut the angle not pull the head and they even went so far as to forbid doing the correct version on TV so nobody could steal their secrets.
To quote my Professor, the Brazilians are the sketchiest people as a race. It wouldn't surprise me if the whole "creonte" thing had a little something to do with that, and there's a reason Americans are better at BJJ and it's because we don't give a fuck and take whatever's useful from anywhere.

>**Eddie Bravo has entered the chat**
You would learn the triangle choke if you practice judo long enough (Shime-waza Sankaku-jime).
People were cracking the code on BJJ as early as UFC 4 (some believe Dan Severn was doing business with Royce in their fight). Sakuraba did more damage to the reputation of BJJ than anyone else in MMA. Rickson priced himself out of ever fighting Saku, and even when Royce got the win back, he pissed hot after the fight which puts an asterisk on it. In Japan in the 2000s, Sakuraba's campaign against the Gracies was treated as a continuation of Kimura Masahiko's fight against Helio Gracie from 1951 to put the Brazilian upstarts back in their place.

 

[Karamanlis]

People were cracking the code on BJJ as early as UFC 4 (some believe Dan Severn was doing business with Royce in their fight).

Severn said that he was opposed to hitting anyone. He didn't wanna throw punches, kicks, knees, elbows, etc. He wanted to just use his wrestling. And if you go back and watch UFC 4, it seems to check out. He does not strike anyone all night.

After he lost to Royce, he changed his mind about striking. And he believes that he would've defeated Royce that night if he had started head butting him and smashing him.

 

[foam rolla]

Severn said that he was opposed to hitting anyone. He didn't wanna throw punches, kicks, knees, elbows, etc. He wanted to just use his wrestling. And if you go back and watch UFC 4, it seems to check out. He does not strike anyone all night.

After he lost to Royce, he changed his mind about striking. And he believes that he would've defeated Royce that night if he had started head butting him and smashing him.

When Severn came back after that he was way more aggressive and fucked up Oleg Taktarov with ground and pound

 

[foam rolla]

Highkey the best thing BJJ guys could do is stop listening to Brazilians and treat being on your back like how a wrestler does. Like it’s a fucking death sentence and you need to put the other guy there, after that ride and crush and strangle like an actual grappler instead of a homosexual powerbottom.
I’m a BJJ guy, and I legit turn to the Folkstyle guys for riding technology because they got that shit on lock and, believe it or not, it works better than the BJJ pinning positions because while the Brazilians were fucking around on their back the wrestlers were victimizing people from top position and getting quite good results with that strategy.
It’s a disgrace, frankly, for all the shit BJJ dudes talk there’s such massive and obvious holes in the art that their pride won’t allow them to patch up.

Brazilians still think you need to wear a gi in order to train MMA or even do no-gi. It's the most retarded hill to die on.

 

[trent]

Brazilians still think you need to wear a gi in order to train MMA or even do no-gi. It's the most retarded hill to die on.

Maybe I'm misremembering it but didn't the Gracies pretty much dictate to the UFC in the early days that they had to wear GIs because wouldn't you know it conveniently gave BJJ guys a weapon to choke people with it was completely essential to the sport.

 

[foam rolla]

Maybe I'm misremembering it but didn't the Gracies pretty much dictate to the UFC in the early days that they had to wear GIs because wouldn't you know it conveniently gave BJJ guys a weapon to choke people with it was completely essential to the sport.

Probably. They were always making up retarded rules to bend things in their favor. I'd guess part of it too would be that the gi makes more friction and makes it so you can grab people without them slipping out. That's why it was funny to see Sakuraba undress Royce's gi and pull it over his head.

During the Eddie Bravo v Royler 2 match, there was a massive amount of fuckery over what Eddie could wear as they didn't want him having the slightest advantage. I think Eddie wanted to wear leggings and the Gracies were chimping out over it and rewriting rules and generally being faggots about it.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

Brazilians still think you need to wear a gi in order to train MMA or even do no-gi. It's the most retarded hill to die on.

My genuine retarded opinion is that a gi division of MMA would be lit, but that’s never going to happen outside of Sambo or Kudo and even then it’s not MMA.

 

[foam rolla]

My genuine retarded opinion is that a gi division of MMA would be lit, but that’s never going to happen outside of Sambo or Kudo and even then it’s not MMA.

I wonder if it would affect the striking like bare knuckle boxing. But instead of people grabbing the back of the head and throwing short, dirty boxing style hits, they'd grab around the collar for control while throwing hooks and upper cuts.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

I wonder if it would affect the striking like bare knuckle boxing. But instead of people grabbing the back of the head and throwing short, dirty boxing style hits, they'd grab around the collar for control while throwing hooks and upper cuts.

I’ve fucked around with some four oz gloves in the gi with the boys, it’s actually really fun and interesting how the clinch game completely changes but I’m nowhere near an expert on that.
You’ll also find that certain weird BJJ/Judo gi techniques can change the ground and pound game, I’d love to see experts in gi MMA but good luck selling that to the viewers.

 

[Karamanlis]

Maybe I'm misremembering it but didn't the Gracies pretty much dictate to the UFC in the early days that they had to wear GIs because wouldn't you know it conveniently gave BJJ guys a weapon to choke people with it was completely essential to the sport.

No. Royce personally liked the gi. Rickson, Renzo, and Royler didn't wear the gi in MMA.

 

[Bakachev]

My genuine retarded opinion is that a gi division of MMA would be lit, but that’s never going to happen outside of Sambo or Kudo and even then it’s not MMA.

It's a thing in the Asian Games of MMA tournament fyi. Although it's filled with completely tomato cans (dominated by 0-3 UFC rejects lol) and uses the olympic style safe rule so it's gay.
Edit: added the video, the one who dominated is a 0-3 UFC reject if you wonder.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

It's a thing in the Asian Games of MMA tournament fyi. Although it's filled with completely tomato cans (dominated by 0-3 UFC rejects lol) and uses the olympic style safe rule so it's gay.

I want a kumite in the woods.

 

[TheHarbinger]

Maybe I'm misremembering it but didn't the Gracies pretty much dictate to the UFC in the early days that they had to wear GIs because wouldn't you know it conveniently gave BJJ guys a weapon to choke people with it was completely essential to the sport.

Yes and they also told other fighters that grabbing or using the gi was illegal on both offense and defense. But then they were using the lapel for chokes. They also forbid other fighters from wearing proper gear like certain types of gloves or shoes. Pretty much the early days of the UFC and Pride were filled with fixed fights, bent rules and cheating, ridiculous officiating, and anything to make the bigger stars win. UFC still now favors its big stars and same with boxing when it comes to judging or things like weight misses.

 

[Slimy Time]

Dana is going to happily let Tom rot away in purgatory just to spite Eddie Hearn. Also, pretty clear sign that Jon Jones isn't getting his wish of being released either. What are the odds that later this week Dana officially strips Tom and announces Pereira-Gane is now for the vacant heavyweight title?

High I think after whoever wins wins. Dana and co have basically never been able to have a good relationship with the UFC champion for a decade+ now. Only DC who was a short term company shill as champ was affable.

Stipe was difficult and managed to nail himself with a very high paying job for defending once a year, and otherwise doing his pro firefighter job. Ngannou won (which Dana was elated when he did) only to be an even bigger pain with wanting payouts and boxing. Got Jon the belt and we know that shit, now Tom has, though the big mouth of his father, leaked that once he’s done, he wants to leap to boxing and the Hearn tieup probably links to that.

They would want love to have some servile goy like Gane or short term Pereira as heavyweight champ.

Probably. They were always making up retarded rules to bend things in their favor. I'd guess part of it too would be that the gi makes more friction and makes it so you can grab people without them slipping out. That's why it was funny to see Sakuraba undress Royce's gi and pull it over his head.

During the Eddie Bravo v Royler 2 match, there was a massive amount of fuckery over what Eddie could wear as they didn't want him having the slightest advantage. I think Eddie wanted to wear leggings and the Gracies were chimping out over it and rewriting rules and generally being faggots about it.

Brazilians are/were spiritually Indian, particularly the Gracies. You can go all the way back to Helio’s matches and read the accounts of them - him having draws against Japanese judoka was him getting tossed around like a rag but because of the special padding and rules he “didn’t lose”.

The whole bullshit with Sakuraba where in a tournament format Royce or whoever gets to have a no time limit fight until he quits and then Saku has to continue on. To getting on the roids, popping after a win, and then for some nonsense reason it remains a win on his record.

 

[trent]

You can go all the way back to Helio’s matches and read the accounts of them

I had a brief look at them on Wikipedia. His record was 9-2-8 and he fought a bunch of prowrestlers and "tough man" types.

Judo guys tossed him around the place and other jujitsu guys either got tired fighting him and gave up or tired him out until he gave up.

The entire foundation of BJJ is an utter scam in MMA and fuck all people win using any of the techniques it teaches. The last win by Kimura in UFC was a year ago and it was Kayla Harrison who could pretty much grab any limb and twist it to win because she's fucking huge.

 

[Slimy Time]

I had a brief look at them on Wikipedia. His record was 9-2-8 and he fought a bunch of prowrestlers and "tough man" types.

Judo guys tossed him around the place and other jujitsu guys either got tired fighting him and gave up or tired him out until he gave up.

The entire foundation of BJJ is an utter scam in MMA and fuck all people win using any of the techniques it teaches. The last win by Kimura in UFC was a year ago and it was Kayla Harrison who could pretty much grab any limb and twist it to win because she's fucking huge.

His best win before his famous fight with Kimura against Kato was him getting tossed around for 20+ minutes until (because they were in like a boxing ring) Kato got tangled up in the ropes and he could get a sub.

 

[foam rolla]

I had a brief look at them on Wikipedia. His record was 9-2-8 and he fought a bunch of prowrestlers and "tough man" types.

Judo guys tossed him around the place and other jujitsu guys either got tired fighting him and gave up or tired him out until he gave up.

The entire foundation of BJJ is an utter scam in MMA and fuck all people win using any of the techniques it teaches. The last win by Kimura in UFC was a year ago and it was Kayla Harrison who could pretty much grab any limb and twist it to win because she's fucking huge.

And if they lose, they just get a bunch of their family members together to beat the guy with a lead pipe 4 on 1.

 

[StMaryPiper]

How many stoic khabib clones are we going to get until East Europe runs out of them?