NNewt84
kiwifarms.net
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- 3 de Sep, 2019
There should be a reversed analysis being done by someone, about men written by women. I guess the only problem is that no sane man would waste his time reading Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey, even for fun.
Well, if it helps, I found this juicy bit of info on Quora: https://www.quora.com/What-common-mistakes-do-female-writers-make-while-writing-male-characters
Caleb Beers dijo:Other people have covered fiction more generally, so I thought I’d cover romance specifically. Growing up, there were quite a few women in my family who liked to read trashy harlequin romances. You know the sort. Bodice-rippers. Out of curiosity, there were a few times I picked them up and read parts of them. I never read any all the way through, that I can remember, because they were all so boring to me.
Looking back, one thing I notice in those sorts of books is that you can basically tell what kind of man, or what masculine quality, the author thinks is attractive, by looking at how the men are presented. In historical romances, a lot of the authors write the men as basically wild animals; they have exaggerated machismo. Every male-male interaction is either corny honorable camaraderie or elaborate territorial pissing. They get in fist-fights a lot and they like to brag. They’re headstrong, impetuous, dumb as a bag of rocks but with a tender heart underneath it all. And they’re jealous of course. If the author’s fantasy is a big strong man who takes her like a lion taking his lioness, then the male characters will reflect that.
If, on the other hand, the author is a woman who likes sensitive men, then the male characters will all be neurotic underwear models. Think of those godawful Twilight books. The male character is depressed and moody, but in a way that makes him dark and mysterious. The male love interest in those books doesn’t sulk; he “broods.” You know what I mean. I have had women, who read my writing and watch my YouTube videos, write me letters where they tell me how they like to imagine me as a tortured writer or a pensive wise philosopher, and I strongly suspect that such women read this kind of romance novel. This second type of romance novel is very interesting to me, because it shows that there are women who think that neurosis is an attractive trait in a man — and that just floors me. Why in the world would you be attracted to someone because they’re neurotic? Perhaps it’s some misplaced mothering impulse, in that they want to find a guy they can care for. Or perhaps — and I think this is much more likely — perhaps they see deep emotional conflict as a sign that a man is deep in general, a sign of profound character, that a guy with deep conflicts must not be a shallow person.
It’s funny that people talk about the “male gaze” so much, because there is also a female gaze, and you can definitely see it in romantic fiction. I don’t think this is terribly problematic or an issue that needs to be solved. I also don’t think that women who write romance novels are necessarily immature or silly; I think that female romance authors are quite aware that they’re being self-indulgent in what they write, and I think it’s perfectly fine for them to do so. Go ahead and be a little mushy and idealistic. That stuff is in short supply these days. I hope your idealism never dies.
Brian Meed dijo:A few massive ones I notice. These are most commonly committed by younger writers, especially in fanfiction, but they are very popular in female genres, such as romance, too.
- Misunderstanding male sexuality. The male libido is hydraulic. It must be regularly relieved or things will start getting uncomfortabel. Any man between the ages of puberty and dead has a sex drive and does things to relieve it. Ladies, every man in you life — husband, father, brother, son, cousin, uncle, priest, coworker, boss, subordinate, friend, rival, waiter, electrian, he masturbates, copulates, or both.
- Men don’t get female style attraction. Women often write they wouldn’t bang a guy they didn’t like or aren’t attracted too. Men are much less choosey. Women tend to have traits they like, but only really want to do certain guys. For men, nearly any lady with a few traits they like, or close enough, will do. They are also more likely to go for something visual, like a healthy pair of breasts, muscular thighs, long hair, dark skin, hourglass figure, or whatever. While men fall in love and get crushes, they don’t do single target sexuality and pin all their desires on one woman. And if sufficiently sexually pent up, damn near anything, if willing, is good enough.
- Sex can mean as little or as much as we like. In plenty of forms, where they ask for sex, it is a very male impulse to want to write “Yes, please!”. We think of sex as being like pizza — when it’s great, there’s nothing like it. When it’s not, it’s still pretty damn good, and who’d pass on pizza unless a very serious reason emerged?
- Sex and love work differently. Girls tend to want to test men before getting in bed with them. Guys just need to like her even slightly. We don’t love everyone we have sex with, but romantically speaking, we have sex with everyone we love. A sexless relationship for a man doesn’t mean that they’ve progressed to a point of purer, non physical love, it means he’s emotionally bound into a living hell!
- Love does not come before sex, but sex does come before love. To use the meme, Twilight would have turned into Edward constantly begging “Lemme smash!” not even a month into the trainwreck of a “romance”.
- We’re not great with words; we’d much rather demonstrate emotions physically. Yes, that means sex, if we love you.
- Yes, we think sexually about our female friends, coworkers, acquaintences, and so on. We all do, if they are the least bit nice and appealing to us. Very few girls think sexually about their male friends and even fewer believe that their guy friends think sexually about them. Be worried about the man who doesn’t do this; something is not normal with him!
- Men like talking solutions. We like quick, easy, direct solutions. If we discuss a problem, we’re looking for advice and then sympathy.
- We do not analyze our relationships that much. We have mutual understands and feeling for how our relationships stands. We don’t talk about how friends we are or how lovers we are. We just know and reciprocate.
- Very commonly, in romance stories, two guys will be after the girl, who just doesn’t know who to choose between. Odds are no guy is going to tolerate that. Most will demand very quickly either she sticks with him or takes the highway, or, if they’re the more open kind, a threesome with the other guy. Failing that, expect someone to fall afoul of jealousy, very quickly. We cannot stand romantic rivals. In real life, Twilight would have ended with an ultimatum, a shooting, or both.
- Male anger is hot, raw, and quick. Men seldom sit on hurts and slights for months to years on end, making a show of niceness but being discretely bitchy and hurtful. That’s a woman thing. You’ll know when a man doesn’t like you. When men hate something, they want to kill it. It’s just how we are.
- Men say little but feel much. We have all the emotions women do, but we’re taught to keep them muted and suppressed.
- Insulting jokes mean we like you. It means we feel comfortable enough to give you a fair excuse to shoot back at us, knowing you don’t actually mean it, either. the old hosts of Top Gear are truly fantastic examples of this; they rib and prank each other constantly, and only because they’re such great friends.
- We aren’t all competitive. We like winning and we hate looking weak. That’s it, really.
- The top woman in a man’s life is his mother. She was there first, she has always been there. No woman can ever compete with dear mama.
Elke Weiss dijo:I think one of the hardest things for me was appreciating that masculinity and femininity have context.
What is acceptable for a man today was definitely not true of men in history, and that doesn’t even take into account various cultures. Gender roles are very vital to remember, and values dissonance is extremely important.
For instance, I have a fight between my main characters in my novel. Here’s a rough idea of how the fight between the husband and wife go.
“You are a sinful king our friends wasted their lives protecting. They sacrificed everything for a worthless monster,” she spat.
Alexander reeled from the insult. “How could you say that to me?” he said. “You are supposed to be my wife!”
“And you were supposed to be the great hero of Israel,” Salome snapped. “Instead, you have destroyed this country.”
So I showed this scene to my friend, who reminded me this is first century BCE and no husband would tolerate that disrespect from his wife, that this was an age where women and children were basically property to their male guardians. I was writing Alexander in a feminine role.
Here’s how it is now.
“You are a sinful king our friends wasted their lives protecting. They sacrificed everything for a worthless monster,” she spat.
Alexander held her firmly and pulled her to face him. “Silence!" he roared, fury transforming his face, leaving the room feeling devoid of air. Salome suddenly felt very small around him. His shouting was new to her ears, echoing through the room. She nodded quickly.
Now, that was the behavior expected of a man at the time.
And here's one about Harry Potter specifically: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some...arry-Potters-character-was-written-by-a-woman
John Fleming dijo:This isn’t just specific to Harry, but none of the boys act like actual adolescent boys. I’ll preface this by saying I didn’t go to boarding school, but I can imagine what it’s like.
For one, there’s almost no sporting culture at Hogwarts. Rowling tried to make the Hogwarts student body seem like a normal sampling of a teenage population. Well, there should be about 80% of the student body that wants to play physical sports. Where’s wizard football, basketball or soccer?
But what about Quidditch? Pfft. It’s a poor soccer allegory. Aside from the in-game mechanics being silly, the culture of school Quidditch makes no sense. Why are there only three games per year? Surely everyone would want to play more. And the students aren’t nearly competitive enough about it. There should be much more trash talking among players and fans.
I’m torn on whether to harp on the total lack of teen romance in the books. Obviously, Rowling wanted to make the books appropriate for everyone. But here’s the thing. Every girl in Hogwarts should have been scrambling over each other to get with Harry. He’s a celebrity, rich, and the ultimate bad boy. He’s always brooding, sneaking out, and disobeying adults. Plus, he saved the school every year. Come on.
Plus, Harry should spend much more time thinking about girls. Boys aged about 12–16 spend so much of the school day thinking about their female classmates. It’s kind of frightening, honestly. Rowling was clearly never a teenage boy.
And finally, there’s just a lack of competitive spirit among the boys. When you’re a boy in high school, everything is a competition. Who has the prettiest girlfriend. Who has the most girlfriends. Who’s the fastest, or the strongest, or can jump the highest. Who can get the best grade without looking like they’re trying to. Who can eat the most food in one sitting. Who can stay up longer at a sleepover.
When I was in eighth grade, two friends and I had a competition of who could wear shorts the longest through the winter. I lived in New York. From Nov-Mar it was rarely over 30 F, and we got plenty of snow. I wore shorts the entire winter. I’m not even trying to brag, just to illustrate my point that teenage boys will try to outdo other boys in anything possible. There’s none of this in Harry Potter.
Sean Yeager dijo:
- He never gets into a proper physical fight at school. Most boys will at some point either be picked on or punch someone in anger while at school.
- He talks about his feelings a lot. Boys at this age rarely understand their feelings let alone reflect upon them, talk about them and understand them.
- He doesn’t indulge in his celebrity to snog more girls. In his shoes, most boys with raging hormones would gladly take whatever was on offer to them. Including Hermione, for good or bad.
- He talks more about his mum than his dad. Given his dad is likely to be the main role model, he would surely want to know all about him, what he did and what he achieved. His dad as a character is also somewhat flimsy.
- Tricks and revenge. He has enemies, teachers who give him a hard time and the bullies. Most boys would plot some kind of revenge or practical jokes to get their own back. Harry seems to watch it all happen around him, except when directly confronted.
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