🐱 Marvel Studios' Ms. Marvel DRAMA!! Cast includes sexual predator, whitewashing and more! - The salt is delicious

Francis York Morgan · 8 de Dic, 2020

Marissa Moira dijo:
They should have made her have the ability to perpetually explode, like her whole body is an unstable mass ready to go supernova. Instead she's like a ripoff Reed Richards.

It's actually a little worse than just "ripoff Reed Richards". Kamala's power is actually shapeshifting. Naturally, there's a billion cool uses or adventures to be had with shapeshifting but G. Willow Wilson is a terrible writer who couldn't come up with anything so she declared that shapeshifting was "too overpowered" (lol, like they really give a shit about that) and they stuck with the oddly off-putting limb inflation.

Czargon the Red dijo:
Kamala Khan's problem is that she was just never that interesting.

Well, yeah. That's what it boils down to on the most basic level but to leave it there won't explain why she's so uninteresting as a character. From what I can tell, the core problems with Kamala are:

Her very conception. If you take a look at pretty much any of the big superheroes like Spider-Man, Batman, or Superman, you'll see that these characters were created by one or two people. Now, go look at Kamala Khan's Wikipedia page - she has five "creators" listed for her, including two editors (one of which we'll get to in a moment). As it's been demonstrated numerous times, creative by committee just doesn't work and it helps to explain some of initial oddities of Kamala that have largely been forgotten like the true nature of her abilities.
The character exists to be Sana Amanat's self-insert. I was tempted to roll this up into #1, but it really deserves to be expanded on. G. Willow Wilson described in an interview how she imagined Kamala to be Somali American before it was "agreed" to make her a Pakistani American (coincidentally, that's what Amanat's background is). According to Amanat, the push to create Kamala came when she was telling another editor at Marvel about her experience growing up as a Muslim American. This anecdotal story, apparently, was just soooooo awesome that they set about creating this all-new character for Marvel Comics with three other people. Shockingly, as Amanat's influence in Marvel grew, so did Kamala's exposure. She's been in three different Avengers teams, the Secret Warriors, the Champions, crossed over with most of the "All-New Marvel" characters, and so on. There have been months where Kamala was in no fewer than eight different books, including her own solo series. She's getting Wolverine levels of exposure despite not really having much of a track record in terms of moving issues.
Because she is Amanat's OC (donut steel), the character is completely handicapped. Kamala isn't allowed to fail, both in comics and in reality. She's not quite as notorious as Carol Danvers for having her solo series relaunched (I think Carol is up to eight now), but it's happened a few times already with this character and, in cases where the series goes on for any extended period of time, the sales always fall off a cliff from issue to issue. Supposedly, her trade paperbacks do "great" numbers but I have a feeling that's also artificially inflated by the number of catlady librarians who order these books for their inventory or how much they offload to Scholastic for book fairs. There's nothing in the rest that would suggest she's this fantastic product mover. As for the stories themselves, it's pretty easy to see why interest in these runs fall off so quick - they're boring as shit, "slice of life" deals where Kamala occasionally dresses up to punch a nondescript bad guy. As far as I know, she doesn't have a unique rogues gallery (and if I'm missing any, it goes to show just how unmemorable they are) and, as I said, she doesn't fail. Even the few failures to her name either get forgotten, resolved the next issue, or never held against her (like how her participation in an authoritarian super police got one of her friends crippled). She's got to be this perfect little beacon of hope because that's what Amanat wants.
Speaking of what Amanat wants, supposedly that's also to tell stories of "the authentic Muslim American experience" through Kamala. Except. . . that never happens. Ever. You will never see an issue of Ms. Marvel attempt to tackle the real debates and issues of Islam in a non-Islamic country. There's no issue that takes a hard look at the radicalization of Islam, Sharia, being a young woman in a religious culture that strictly places you below men in terms of freedom, and so on. Hell, Kamala's older brother is supposedly a traditionalist but the most this amounts to is a comment here or there about Kamala not wearing a hijab. It all feels remarkably inauthentic and I think this is one of the most damning issues with the character. Through Kamala, Marvel had the chance to explore something culturally relevant and create meaningful social commentary. Instead, they pussied out.
Beyond all of these issues, the other major problem with Kamala Khan is that the creative for her sucks. Wilson isn't a good writer, especially for something like superhero comics, and she was more concerned with giving a good face to Islam than writing a compelling story. With a weak foundation, all these different teams who end up using Kamala in all those different Avengers stories or crossovers don't really have much to go off for her character. So she ends up being "inoffensive hero girl who pushes everyone to do the right thing" in these books. She comes off as boring at best and a nag in some of the worst moments with her constant lecturing about heroism. Considering that she's the pet project of the most powerful editor in the company right now, "generic do-gooder" is probably the best she's going to get given all the different groups the character is expected to please.

Anyways, that's a lot of words that could have just as well been "she's boring and sucks" but I like to get into the whys of it. Especially when my work computer is being slow as shit and I can't do anything else. As I said in my first post, I don't even know why Disney thought they could make this work. This is a character that needs a real overhaul and the influencers behind the scenes are going to fight that every step of the way. Her depiction in the flop of a game known as Marvel's Avengers is probably the furthest anyone will be allowed to stray with adapting her to a mainstream medium and it wasn't really that different from her comics persona. Hell, a lot of people who played the game came away saying she was the most annoying part of it (story-wise at least, the game being a buggy, lootbox-ridden mess is the actual worst) and she looks so out of place standing among the likes of Iron Man or Captain America.

CatParty · 8 de Dic, 2020

Marissa Moira dijo:
They should have made her have the ability to perpetually explode, like her whole body is an unstable mass ready to go supernova. Instead she's like a ripoff Reed Richards.

That’s ripoff Johnny storm lol

raspberry mocha · 8 de Dic, 2020

Yamma Damma dijo:
Really Marvel? You want to appeal to the fucking Muslims right now?
A bunch of teachers got beheaded in France recently for showing the Charlie Hebdo drawings of the Muslim prophet and you morons at Harlotwood got the bright idea to make a live action show about Muslims...

Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.

Alexander Thaut · 8 de Dic, 2020

Francis York Morgan dijo:
It's actually a little worse than just "ripoff Reed Richards". Kamala's power is actually shapeshifting. Naturally, there's a billion cool uses or adventures to be had with shapeshifting but G. Willow Wilson is a terrible writer who couldn't come up with anything so she declared that shapeshifting was "too overpowered" (lol, like they really give a shit about that) and they stuck with the oddly off-putting limb inflation.

Well, yeah. That's what it boils down to on the most basic level but to leave it there won't explain why she's so uninteresting as a character. From what I can tell, the core problems with Kamala are:

Her very conception. If you take a look at pretty much any of the big superheroes like Spider-Man, Batman, or Superman, you'll see that these characters were created by one or two people. Now, go look at Kamala Khan's Wikipedia page - she has five "creators" listed for her, including two editors (one of which we'll get to in a moment). As it's been demonstrated numerous times, creative by committee just doesn't work and it helps to explain some of initial oddities of Kamala that have largely been forgotten like the true nature of her abilities.

The character exists to be Sana Amanat's self-insert. I was tempted to roll this up into #1, but it really deserves to be expanded on. G. Willow Wilson described in an interview how she imagined Kamala to be Somali American before it was "agreed" to make her a Pakistani American (coincidentally, that's what Amanat's background is). According to Amanat, the push to create Kamala came when she was telling another editor at Marvel about her experience growing up as a Muslim American. This anecdotal story, apparently, was just soooooo awesome that they set about creating this all-new character for Marvel Comics with three other people. Shockingly, as Amanat's influence in Marvel grew, so did Kamala's exposure. She's been in three different Avengers teams, the Secret Warriors, the Champions, crossed over with most of the "All-New Marvel" characters, and so on. There have been months where Kamala was in no fewer than eight different books, including her own solo series. She's getting Wolverine levels of exposure despite not really having much of a track record in terms of moving issues.

Because she is Amanat's OC (donut steel), the character is completely handicapped. Kamala isn't allowed to fail, both in comics and in reality. She's not quite as notorious as Carol Danvers for having her solo series relaunched (I think Carol is up to eight now), but it's happened a few times already with this character and, in cases where the series goes on for any extended period of time, the sales always fall off a cliff from issue to issue. Supposedly, her trade paperbacks do "great" numbers but I have a feeling that's also artificially inflated by the number of catlady librarians who order these books for their inventory or how much they offload to Scholastic for book fairs. There's nothing in the rest that would suggest she's this fantastic product mover. As for the stories themselves, it's pretty easy to see why interest in these runs fall off so quick - they're boring as shit, "slice of life" deals where Kamala occasionally dresses up to punch a nondescript bad guy. As far as I know, she doesn't have a unique rogues gallery (and if I'm missing any, it goes to show just how unmemorable they are) and, as I said, she doesn't fail. Even the few failures to her name either get forgotten, resolved the next issue, or never held against her (like how her participation in an authoritarian super police got one of her friends crippled). She's got to be this perfect little beacon of hope because that's what Amanat wants.

Speaking of what Amanat wants, supposedly that's also to tell stories of "the authentic Muslim American experience" through Kamala. Except. . . that never happens. Ever. You will never see an issue of Ms. Marvel attempt to tackle the real debates and issues of Islam in a non-Islamic country. There's no issue that takes a hard look at the radicalization of Islam, Sharia, being a young woman in a religious culture that strictly places you below men in terms of freedom, and so on. Hell, Kamala's older brother is supposedly a traditionalist but the most this amounts to is a comment here or there about Kamala not wearing a hijab. It all feels remarkably inauthentic and I think this is one of the most damning issues with the character. Through Kamala, Marvel had the chance to explore something culturally relevant and create meaningful social commentary. Instead, they pussied out.

Beyond all of these issues, the other major problem with Kamala Khan is that the creative for her sucks. Wilson isn't a good writer, especially for something like superhero comics, and she was more concerned with giving a good face to Islam than writing a compelling story. With a weak foundation, all these different teams who end up using Kamala in all those different Avengers stories or crossovers don't really have much to go off for her character. So she ends up being "inoffensive hero girl who pushes everyone to do the right thing" in these books. She comes off as boring at best and a nag in some of the worst moments with her constant lecturing about heroism. Considering that she's the pet project of the most powerful editor in the company right now, "generic do-gooder" is probably the best she's going to get given all the different groups the character is expected to please.

Anyways, that's a lot of words that could have just as well been "she's boring and sucks" but I like to get into the whys of it. Especially when my work computer is being slow as shit and I can't do anything else. As I said in my first post, I don't even know why Disney thought they could make this work. This is a character that needs a real overhaul and the influencers behind the scenes are going to fight that every step of the way. Her depiction in the flop of a game known as Marvel's Avengers is probably the furthest anyone will be allowed to stray with adapting her to a mainstream medium and it wasn't really that different from her comics persona. Hell, a lot of people who played the game came away saying she was the most annoying part of it (story-wise at least, the game being a buggy, lootbox-ridden mess is the actual worst) and she looks so out of place standing among the likes of Iron Man or Captain America.

I've been slightly miffed that Marvel didn't let this new "Outlaws" thing this year be about Kamala fucking up. But no they make her a martyr or sth?

like, come on.

Shield Breaker · 8 de Dic, 2020

Yasmeen Fletcher and Zenobia Shroff are half white christians playing muslim Indians.

What the flying fuck? Now we're policing actors religion?

CatParty · 8 de Dic, 2020

Shield Breaker dijo:
What the flying fuck? Now we're policing actors religion?

And yet Ellen page can continue playing a girl character even though she “has always been a man” (their rules)

Francis York Morgan · 8 de Dic, 2020

CatParty dijo:
That’s ripoff Johnny storm lol

Okay, I see that. Maybe it's a bit derivative. How about this cool idea:

What if she had a magical hijab that, when worn, made her completely undetectable to men? Like, super invisibility?

Stoneheart · 8 de Dic, 2020

nobody with money in turkey wears headcovering. thats only for turkish hillbilly

CatParty · 8 de Dic, 2020

Francis York Morgan dijo:
Okay, I see that. Maybe it's a bit derivative. How about this cool idea:

What if she had a magical hijab that, when worn, made her completely undetectable to men? Like, super invisibility?

How about if she summoned sand from her homeland and it encased her with a rock like form? Bonus if she’s bullied by the yancy street gang

Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth · 8 de Dic, 2020

CatParty dijo:
Ver archivo adjunto 1774405 Ver archivo adjunto 1774406 Ver archivo adjunto 1774407 Ver archivo adjunto 1774408 Ver archivo adjunto 1774409 Ver archivo adjunto 1774410

>Instead of hiring a diversity cast me never that represent

Maybe they don't cast people like you because you can't speak English?

GenericYuserName1997 · 8 de Dic, 2020

This character shouldn’t exist in the first place. Waiting for the writer who’s going to have the balls to radicalize her and make her a villian.

ConsoleWarVet · 8 de Dic, 2020

Shield Breaker dijo:
What the flying fuck? Now we're policing actors religion?

Haven't they been doing that to Chris Pratt for years?

Not necessarily to this extent, but slamming him for being Christian whenever possible.

Francis York Morgan · 8 de Dic, 2020

GenericYuserName1997 dijo:
This character shouldn’t exist in the first place. Waiting for the writer who’s going to have the balls to radicalize her and make her a villian.

I think it's more likely that she gets phased down or outright disappears if/when Amanat is gone. Just judging from how she's written in team books or outside of her own series, I don't sense that anyone feels particularly inspired to tell Kamala Khan stories. Maybe she'll have a chance at a reimagining a few years after that hypothetical Amanat departure where someone can really dig deep, find something there to build on, and reintroduce her through a team book like the good old days but I don't know if Marvel Comics in its current iteration has that amount of time.

Inventor of the Telephone · 8 de Dic, 2020

Clem Fandango dijo:
Actual racists who call anyone from the Indian subcontinent a "paki" are less racist than self-proclaimed tolerant people who distinguish between a "half white Christian" and a "hijabi Muslim" that look identical.

How the fuck did this happen?!

I am certain when they use the terms 'white' or 'christian' they are doing it like how they use 'nazi' and 'fascist'. Those four words are probably synonymous to them. They just mean evil, bad, awful, lowest of the low status lows.

OvercookedBacon · 8 de Dic, 2020

Francis York Morgan dijo:
Okay, I see that. Maybe it's a bit derivative. How about this cool idea:

What if she had a magical hijab that, when worn, made her completely undetectable to men? Like, super invisibility?

So like that one girl from the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon with the magic cloak, but not nearly as likeable?

Chan the Wizard · 8 de Dic, 2020

CatParty dijo:
How about if she summoned sand from her homeland and it encased her with a rock like form? Bonus if she’s bullied by the yancy street gang

but Marvel likes to forget her for that whore Ms. Marvel who doesn’t even cover her hair.

Shield Breaker · 8 de Dic, 2020

ConsoleWarVet dijo:
Haven't they been doing that to Chris Pratt for years?

Not necessarily to this extent, but slamming him for being Christian whenever possible.

Not really. Hollywood has been trash talking Christianity for years, but banning a Christian or Jewish person from playing a Muslim is new.

CarlKingofDucks · 8 de Dic, 2020

How come a black kid can play annie but non muslims cant play a muslim?

Scarlett Johansson · 8 de Dic, 2020

ConsoleWarVet dijo:
Haven't they been doing that to Chris Pratt for years?

Not necessarily to this extent, but slamming him for being Christian whenever possible.

There's more to it than his religion but yes people are extra.

Red Hood · 8 de Dic, 2020

Francis York Morgan dijo:
Let's be honest - just like how it is in the comics, Disney is never going to be able to make Kamala Khan appeal to the masses. The show will never be woke enough to sate Twatter, it's not going to be Muslim enough to draw real Muslim interest (and it could get some severe backlash from the more extreme sects, especially if they give Kamala a gay friend or show her having anything resembling a sex life), even the most open-minded normies will quickly see that the show won't even touch the most surface level issues of the Muslim community, and longtime comic fans already despise this character for being shoved down everyone's throat for years now with no success or interest gained.

Kamala essentially exists to be Sana Amanat's self-insert and G. Willow Wilson's propaganda piece. Short of just completely rewriting the character, you're never going to make her work as a franchise character and there's no way Amanat is going to let that happen.

There's literally nothing of value you can get in Kamala Khan that you won't find in a decent issue of Spider-Man (or the Stephanie Brown Batgirl).

🐱 Marvel Studios' Ms. Marvel DRAMA!! Cast includes sexual predator, whitewashing and more! - The salt is delicious

Marvel Studios' Ms. Marvel DRAMA!! Cast includes sexual predator, whi…

Ms. Marvel News on Twitter: "In light of the recent controversies in …

Francis York Morgan

FBI Special Agent

CatParty

Boo

raspberry mocha

mean mug

Alexander Thaut

Viva Venezuela!

Shield Breaker

Back but busy

CatParty

Boo

Francis York Morgan

FBI Special Agent

Stoneheart

Well hung, and snow white tan

CatParty

Boo

Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth

AI Pope of Entropic Declesiastics/Ver. U+1F0ED

GenericYuserName1997

ConsoleWarVet

A Nazi designed my fursuit

Francis York Morgan

FBI Special Agent

Inventor of the Telephone

OvercookedBacon

crispety, crunchety

Chan the Wizard

My Gemsona is autistic

Shield Breaker

Back but busy

CarlKingofDucks

Scarlett Johansson

Hello, I'm Shelley Duvall!

Red Hood

Sidekick Lives Matter