Marvel Cinematic Universe

[BrunoMattei]

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

The entire point of the show was to establish Sam as "new Cap", demonstrate he has Steve-like morality ("Refugees desperate, be nicer!"),, and give him a good, public victory so the populace would accept him as Captain America in a reletively short amount of time. I felt like while it could have done a handful of things better, it hit every beat it needed to well. Particularly don't get why people thought the Flag Smashers sucked so bad (ignoring that apparently they never had the serum before so how they beat the shit out of all 4 highly trained heroes is just left a mystery), since the story was trying to kill a rising terrorist organization before it became a bigger problem, which I preferred over the done to death "every villain needs to be an apocalyptic threat" shit. tbh I feel like the universe could flesh out much better if they utilized more street-level goon squads.

 

[starborn427614]

The entire point of the show was to establish Sam as "new Cap", demonstrate he has Steve-like morality ("Refugees desperate, be nicer!"),, and give him a good, public victory so the populace would accept him as Captain America in a reletively short amount of time. I felt like while it could have done a handful of things better, it hit every beat it needed to well. Particularly don't get why people thought the Flag Smashers sucked so bad (ignoring that apparently they never had the serum before so how they beat the shit out of all 4 highly trained heroes is just left a mystery), since the story was trying to kill a rising terrorist organization before it became a bigger problem, which I preferred over the done to death "every villain needs to be an apocalyptic threat" shit. tbh I feel like the universe could flesh out much better if they utilized more street-level goon squads.

I would've swapped the amount of episodes Wandavision had with F&WS. Couple more would've served the latter better while the former could've easily condensed Episodes 1+2 into a single one while keeping the pace and intrigue up. Sam is a great pick for Captain America and while his speech could easily be construed as a strawman argument, it's a very Cap thing to rattle off. I could see Chris Evans doing the same thing if he were still in the role (especially since Sam wasn't strictly speaking about people disliking him for being black, even if the subtext is there).

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I don't think anyone cares that the plot was about a terrorist organization, just that the Flag Smashers themselves were boring as fuck. For starters, their entire ideology revolves around the post-blip pre-blip return world but the MCU has pretty much completely glossed over that period. They also don't have much in the way of characterization or development, with Karli being the only one with a personality and their 'rise' happening entirely off-screen and before the show even starts. The show doesn't even give us much of an idea of how they operate beyond "well, they have a lot of convenient support around the planet, so..."

Marvel has plenty of terrorist and criminal organizations they could have chosen to adapt (AIM probably being the biggest) but instead they went with a bunch of teenagers with attitude that are mad about immigration.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

I don't think anyone cares that the plot was about a terrorist organization, just that the Flag Smashers themselves were boring as fuck. For starters, their entire ideology revolves around the post-blip pre-blip return world but the MCU has pretty much completely glossed over that period. They also don't have much in the way of characterization or development, with Karli being the only one with a personality and their 'rise' happening entirely off-screen and before the show even starts. The show doesn't even give us much of an idea of how they operate beyond "well, they have a lot of convenient support around the planet, so..."

Marvel has plenty of terrorist and criminal organizations they could have chosen to adapt (AIM probably being the biggest) but instead they went with a bunch of teenagers with attitude that are mad about immigration.

Right, they were street level goons.

AIM especially being an enormous deal that likely would involve a full, proper Avenger's team. Them being a fairly useless bunch of chumps who were nearly capable of setting up their own team of Winter Soldiers. They came off as disorganized idiots who didn't know what they were doing, and really only the main girl was the one who was committed to actually committing any terror attacks. Them being bumblefucks who could have grown more dangerous was their entire narrative purpose.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Right, they were street level goons.

AIM especially being an enormous deal that likely would involve a full, proper Avenger's team. Them being a fairly useless bunch of chumps who were nearly capable of setting up their own team of Winter Soldiers. They came off as disorganized idiots who didn't know what they were doing, and really only the main girl was the one who was committed to actually committing any terror attacks. Them being bumblefucks who could have grown more dangerous was their entire narrative purpose.

I wouldn't really call them street level. Kingpin and Bushmaster are street level. The Flag Smashers were a globe trotting terrorist group with support from all around the world, and their key members were enhanced with super soldier serum. Obviously not as powerful and far-reaching as Hydra but still a large leap from, say, Jigsaw's group of soldiers in S2 of Punisher.

As for AIM being too big a threat, well... not really. In the comics they're constantly going up against single super heroes (incidentally, they're most often used in Captain America).

Again, though, my biggest problems with them wasn't really their concept but rather that the execution of it left them under-cooked and boring.

 

[cactus]

I finally saw the finale. Nice, typical MCU fair, the only thing that brought it down was the race-baiting. But I have a question, when Karli pushed the truck onto that structure, where was the crowd of only black people (lmao wtf) that cheered Sam on when he pulled the truck to safety? They literally came out of nowhere and the way that black said Sam was the new Cap felt like he had their approval, the black peoples' approval, as if they're the only people that matter.

Also Karli was a weak ass villain, I was glad Sharon shot and killed her, bitch deserved it, she was a terrorist. And was that Zemo who blew up the van? Because he is the ultimate troll and I can't hate him now.

 

[starborn427614]

I finally saw the finale. Nice, typical MCU fair, the only thing that brought it down was the race-baiting. But I have a question, when Karli pushed the truck onto that structure, where was the crowd of only black people (lmao wtf) that cheered Sam on when he pulled the truck to safety? They literally came out of nowhere and the way that black said Sam was the new Cap felt like he had their approval, the black peoples' approval, as if they're the only people that matter.

Also Karli was a weak ass villain, I was glad Sharon shot and killed her, bitch deserved it, she was a terrorist. And was that Zemo who blew up the van? Because he is the ultimate troll and I can't hate him now.

The butler dude was acting on his orders, so I would assume so. The man is Xantos-tier now, even when he loses he wins lol.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I swear I've seen this sort of thing happen more lately, creators changing the plot because they can't get their eyes off the audience. It completely misses the fun of mysteries. People are supposed to have the chance of figuring it/getting it wrong.

This had been an ongoing trend at least since the 80ies. Dallas being a noticeable example with the "who shoot J.R." story arc with everyone fan theorizes who's the shooter. Couple with Hollywood possibly having more leakers leaking spoilers than the U.S. Govt. for its post WWII existence. Would make them paranoid schizophrenic trying to stay on top of stopping the leakage. Although them going hostile on the paying customers (normies to autists) for fan theorizing (sp?) is a very recent development.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

I swear I've seen this sort of thing happen more lately, creators changing the plot because they can't get their eyes off the audience. It completely misses the fun of mysteries. People are supposed to have the chance of figuring it/getting it wrong.

Didn't they change the plot of Westworld season 2 because they were butthurt that fans already figured it out on the internet?

 

[MirrorNoir]

FATWAS was entertaining but really came up short in most areas.

They needed to establish what was going on in the world to actually give Karli's plot and arc a purpose. Is there a Marvel film that got delayed because of the pandemic that fleshed out the post snap and snap undoing world?

That Karli actress didn't work as the leader of the rebels in SOLO, so I don't know why they'd think she'd work in this role. I guess she fills some look of a rebel leader for Disney but she's not a convincing leader.

So does the super-soldier serum give you the ability to fight? Most of the fights felt inconsistent about who was more powerful or skilled.

Falcon's headpiece looked stupid in his final costume. I know there's a point of a non super powered hero, but give him a helmet to protect the top of his head. Also make his costume more akin to an Iron Man or Black Panther suit. Not just look like fabric.

Rumor has it that there was a huge storyline about a virus being unleashed to depopulate the planet again after the Snap was undone that had to be completely cut due to Covid. Supposedly, and this is just rumor mind you, but the original storyline had Zemo running a Thanos worshipping death cult behind the virus and that Zemo's mask would be inspired by Thanos's purple face.

Also, it's been rumored that Karli was supposed to be either future Thunderbolt Songbird or former Steve Rogers love interest Rachel "Diamondback" Leighton and that one of the reasons her storyline is so fucked up, is that they changed their mind about her being a blackwashed white character and changed her name/redubbed all references to her to make her Karlie/have her die during the gap in production when Covid forced them to take a hiatus in production.

I don't think anyone cares that the plot was about a terrorist organization, just that the Flag Smashers themselves were boring as fuck. For starters, their entire ideology revolves around the post-blip pre-blip return world but the MCU has pretty much completely glossed over that period. They also don't have much in the way of characterization or development, with Karli being the only one with a personality and their 'rise' happening entirely off-screen and before the show even starts. The show doesn't even give us much of an idea of how they operate beyond "well, they have a lot of convenient support around the planet, so..."

Marvel has plenty of terrorist and criminal organizations they could have chosen to adapt (AIM probably being the biggest) but instead they went with a bunch of teenagers with attitude that are mad about immigration.

It's been joked/speculated that they chose Ultimatium/Flag Smashers (merged together in a garbage combination gesalt) due to Hollywood getting orders from Biden/DNC that they need to start churning out propaganda attacking Antifas now that they've served their purpose getting Trump brought down/Biden installed. What with how much the silent majority of America rightfully hate Antifas and that the media failed miserably to white knight them during the Trump years and that Biden needs to get rid of them now that they've served their purpose and are now costing Biden the moderate/normie vote that tacitly went along with the DNC extortion plot of "get Biden in office and the domestic terror campaign of Antifas/BLM will stop", he desperately needs to keep Congress from flipping red in 2022 and to keep the White House in 2024.

Didn't they change the plot of Westworld season 2 because they were butthurt that fans already figured it out on the internet?

No, they just rickrolled fans with Wood singing "Never Gonna Give You Up" by promising fans a link to where the writers/cast would spoil S2 themselves as part of a "bold new initiative from Hollywood where spoilers would be delivered directly from the show runners before the season starts", only to get Wood singing.
(Similarly, it has also been rumored that Walker originally killed Battlestar himself under the influence of the super serum but that this was cut and replaced with the Flagsmashers killing Battlestar and Walker killing one with his shield instead and that the entire last episode was rewritten from scratch to allow Walker a redemption arc)

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The whole "Thanos was right" is the stupidest, most psychopathic shit I've seen that wasn't deliberately astro turfed by some powerful corporation/politician.
Stupidest because, at best, it would take the world back only 50 years in terms of population. In terms of pollution probably a lot less since you still have the entire mechanisms of producing shit, only divided by a smaller population who'd use it (not to mention the number of familial units wouldn't drop by 50%).
Psychopathic is obvious, it's a brute step "final solution" to environmental issues that's derived from people would prefer punish everyone, including themselves, rather than the few countries who are the main cause of most problems, because randomly culling 50% of the population is considered more politically correct than cutting trade with China.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Rumor has it that there was a huge storyline about a virus being unleashed to depopulate the planet again after the Snap was undone that had to be completely cut due to Covid. Supposedly, and this is just rumor mind you, but the original storyline had Zemo running a Thanos worshipping death cult behind the virus and that Zemo's mask would be inspired by Thanos's purple face.

That sounds stupid as fuck and if that was seriously the original plan praise allah for the coof cancelling that shit.

 

[InsolentGaylord]

"Gutting the motivation and urgency for the plot ACTUALLY was a good idea" - MCU Fanboy.

 

[BrokenWokenBespoken]

I don't think anyone cares that the plot was about a terrorist organization, just that the Flag Smashers themselves were boring as fuck. For starters, their entire ideology revolves around the post-blip pre-blip return world but the MCU has pretty much completely glossed over that period. They also don't have much in the way of characterization or development, with Karli being the only one with a personality and their 'rise' happening entirely off-screen and before the show even starts. The show doesn't even give us much of an idea of how they operate beyond "well, they have a lot of convenient support around the planet, so..."

Marvel has plenty of terrorist and criminal organizations they could have chosen to adapt (AIM probably being the biggest) but instead they went with a bunch of teenagers with attitude that are mad about immigration.

Well it wasn't like they can go full Turner/Durden day of the rope/Project Mayhem style terrorism that attracts Breadtubers like bees to honey. they were basically like the Weather Underground in that their anti GRC actions were feel good shit that only makes the governments more like to point trigger happy assholes their direction instead of rallying together like minded people who got snapped who believe that there needs to be change and the Flagsmashers can offer that solution

We already seen how public opinion turned against Walker when he killed Nico in cold blood. Can the GRC afford to shoot/beat down people who got Blipped who decided to side with the Flag Smashers?

 

[MirrorNoir]

The whole "Thanos was right" is the stupidest, most psychopathic shit I've seen that wasn't deliberately astro turfed by some powerful corporation/politician.
Stupidest because, at best, it would take the world back only 50 years in terms of population. In terms of pollution probably a lot less since you still have the entire mechanisms of producing shit, only divided by a smaller population who'd use it (not to mention the number of familial units wouldn't drop by 50%).
Psychopathic is obvious, it's a brute step "final solution" to environmental issues that's derived from people would prefer punish everyone, including themselves, rather than the few countries who are the main cause of most problems, because randomly culling 50% of the population is considered more politically correct than cutting trade with China.

For what it's worth, it was A. something they pushed because they got cold feet on Thanos being a simp for the living manifestation of Death itself and B. at least in one of the tie-in novels they did, they pushed the idea that when Thanos made his original pitch for it on Titan, he was super earnest about the selection being 100% random save for a single person: himself, as far as Thanos wanting to making himself part of the 50% of his planet's population that was put down, for the sake of fairness and to show he wasn't a genocidally insane maniac.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

For what it's worth, it was A. something they pushed because they got cold feet on Thanos being a simp for the living manifestation of Death itself and B. at least in one of the tie-in novels they did, they pushed the idea that when Thanos made his original pitch for it on Titan, he was super earnest about the selection being 100% random save for a single person: himself, as far as Thanos wanting to making himself part of the 50% of his planet's population that was put down, for the sake of fairness and to show he wasn't a genocidally insane maniac.

Its doesn't save it from being retarded though. Even the idea of an even split, you'd likely kill far more than 50% as people like doctors would have saved others, and the power vacuum likely started a few minor wars, or deaths causes by depression and drug abuse that will surely rise. This is doubly true for the passengers on a plane where both pilots got snap'ed or a fetus dying after his mother turned into dust (at least it would have solved the abortion debate). You don't need to be a statistician to realize that the weaker population is far more likely to die as a direct consequence of the snap.
And even further, the ones in the economy who will survive the snap are the big corporate bodies who have lots of redundancy and are the biggest reasons for overconsumption and raping of the environment, while small companies will get absolutely fucked.

TL;DR like all modern "solutions" it's a solution who will likely only make things worse at the long run.

 

[Hooligan Handgun]

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Its doesn't save it from being retarded though. Even the idea of an even split, you'd likely kill far more than 50% as people like doctors would have saved others, and the power vacuum likely started a few minor wars, or deaths causes by depression and drug abuse that will surely rise. This is doubly true for the passengers on a plane where both pilots got snap'ed or a fetus dying after his mother turned into dust (at least it would have solved the abortion debate). You don't need to be a statistician to realize that the weaker population is far more likely to die as a direct consequence of the snap.
And even further, the ones in the economy who will survive the snap are the big corporate bodies who have lots of redundancy and are the biggest reasons for overconsumption and raping of the environment, while small companies will get absolutely fucked.

TL;DR like all modern "solutions" it's a solution who will likely only make things worse at the long run.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

The whole "Thanos was right" is the stupidest, most psychopathic shit I've seen that wasn't deliberately astro turfed by some powerful corporation/politician.

Agreed, its somewhat worrying when I see retards on the internet arguing about why "Thanos is right". A guy I went to high school with once argued on Facebook that "Thanos was mostly right" but this guy wanted to take it a step further as he said that instead of killing 50% of the population randomly, we should instead kill people who don't meet certain criteria like having an I.Q. lower than 110, NEETs, religious people, it was a long ass list of criteria, ironically he himself did not meet his own criteria for surviving.