Marvel Cinematic Universe

[-4ZURE-]

If Eternals bombs while Black Widow still does gangbusters, I think you're right.

I've even seen online how even the most die-hard Marvel capeshit lovers are at least a little nervous about that movie's box office potential thanks to COVID-19 delaying Black Widow this year and throwing everyone off, although they're more convinced it will merely underperform and cause more delays or at most, end up in a Solo scenario.

I would not consider Black Widow in this situation. Personally, I believe the movie will do well as Black Widow is one of the last original characters other than Thor and maybe Guardians if you count them. If by chance the film does do poorly, COVID-19 is such an easy excuse that it likely will not matter in the long run. The performance of the films afterwards are the real things to look at.

I honestly think a one-two punch of Eternals and Lady Thor bombing will likely weaken the MCU and lead to a realignment, but won't kill off capeshit or the Marvel IP completely on their own if they can get the issues with X-Men and Fantastic Four fully settled and start filming by then.

This.
If we are going by Star Wars, that film franchise had 2 bombs and Disney seems to be just rewriting the sequel films out in response. If Eternals and Lady Thor bomb, I expect the characters to die and the MCU to just forget they existed. With X-Men and Fantastic Four on the horizon, those two will likely cover the loss.

In saying this, if those two fail, then I think a death for Marvel is inevitable. I see Disney as using a 3-strike system, one is whatever, two is realignment, three is death. If three movies fail, than that is a sign the brand as a whole has collapsed, so Disney will likely pull a Muppets and yeet the brand out of existence. If Marvel is lucky, a passionate guy will try to bring it back years later, probably with a one time success that leads to an average performing sequel and terrible performing show like the Muppets. Otherwise Spider-Man will be the only survivor as his brand is with Sony.

But a better question is what would happen if one of the "safe" MCU titles like Black Widow or Doctor Strange 2 end up bombing? I don't think Black Widow will bomb at the box office for a variety of reasons, but I do think it could under-perform if the normies are more fed up with the capeshit fad than we think.

If I am not mistaken, Doctor Strange was the worst performing MCU title. I would not call him safe as very few seemed interested in the character, so there is a chance he may be the bomb.

I do think we're seeing a backlash against woke culture that has been building since mid-2019 and I do think Disney and the other big corporations will follow the money and ditch all the pretentious wokeness after losing enough money but I don't think they'll try and draw attention to it.

Your late. The backlash to woke culture has been a thing since 2013 and the start of Anita Sarkesian. Even going by box-office bombs, 2016 GhostBusters was the first to get killed by wokeness. Also Trump got elected, so I think the frustrations have been around for awhile. The reason it went on for so long can be explained as such:

1. Miscommunication - Woke people on Twitter are a very vocal minority that broke through. Once they did, Hollywood capitalized, the issue is, HollyWood is also an eco-chamber, so it took forever for them to see issues with this.

2. Liberal voices - Most new writers for properties are likely super liberal and bring in fellow liberals that slowly fill a company. In a way, it is an ideological take-over.

3. Donald - The president seems perfect for comedy content and points. They are also probably scared of him as he and his audience seem against the Hollywood elites unlike say, Hillary Clinton. Most are probably trying to suppress him and followers as when given the means, both are capable of rip and tearing Hollywood a new one.

4. Brand recognition - The voices are usually heads of already big franchises, so their content flies for one entry and is super profitable. This leads companies to think woke is right. The issue is, that one successful entry typically kills the brand leading to bombs for the next movies.

5. Lack of Care/ Preparing for Replacement - Most woke things are around just for content as companies know someone will watch it. Whether it is being consumed by Gen X Obama lovers who love seeing Trump get made fun of or Millenial crazies, the political stuff will have an audience. At the time of woke culture, 2016, most TV and film companies are trying to jump online, so their goal is likely to just kill the channel to adapt to the times. A lack of care due to success also plays a role. The comics side of Marvel can tank, but since the movies are massive, Disney simply does not care as it is just content to make movies. I think most woke culture is just a killing of the past. Companies are going to move towards the internet as Gen Z and Millenials are there, in which they will likely start limiting woke projects. As for TV, since the main audience is Gen x and early Millenials, the two notable Democrat audiences, it is being supplemented for them.

I've been saying for a while that any cultural realignment and a wider rejection of wokeness in pop culture will be quiet and subtle, much like how the transition from the "edgy" pop culture of the 1990's and 2000's to the pretentious wokeness and SJW punk malaise of "Current Year" pop culture played out.

I think it will be more pronounced than you think. While most will not declare it, comparing say the new Ghostbusters film to 2016 is a night and day difference. I think once these companies get fully online, the shift will be drastic are they are going to have to take on two generations that have more than likely abandoned them in favor of YouTube.

The real question is, what will the culture shift of 2020 be?

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Ya'll niggers put a ton of stock into the greater sociopolitical ramifications of movies featuring talking raccoons.

Say the films don't bomb, does that mean the audience demands more "woke", or does it mean that the people who go to see these things don't see the (((subversion))) in them that YouTube vloggers do?

 

[Syaoran Li]

I would not consider Black Widow in this situation. Personally, I believe the movie will do well as Black Widow is one of the last original characters other than Thor and maybe Guardians if you count them. If by chance the film does do poorly, COVID-19 is such an easy excuse that it likely will not matter in the long run. The performance of the films afterwards are the real things to look at.


This.
If we are going by Star Wars, that film franchise had 2 bombs and Disney seems to be just rewriting the sequel films out in response. If Eternals and Lady Thor bomb, I expect the characters to die and the MCU to just forget they existed. With X-Men and Fantastic Four on the horizon, those two will likely cover the loss.

In saying this, if those two fail, then I think a death for Marvel is inevitable. I see Disney as using a 3-strike system, one is whatever, two is realignment, three is death. If three movies fail, than that is a sign the brand as a whole has collapsed, so Disney will likely pull a Muppets and yeet the brand out of existence. If Marvel is lucky, a passionate guy will try to bring it back years later, probably with a one time success that leads to an average performing sequel and terrible performing show like the Muppets. Otherwise Spider-Man will be the only survivor as his brand is with Sony.


If I am not mistaken, Doctor Strange was the worst performing MCU title. I would not call him safe as very few seemed interested in the character, so there is a chance he may be the bomb.


Your late. The backlash to woke culture has been a thing since 2013 and the start of Anita Sarkesian. Even going by box-office bombs, 2016 GhostBusters was the first to get killed by wokeness. Also Trump got elected, so I think the frustrations have been around for awhile. The reason it went on for so long can be explained as such:

1. Miscommunication - Woke people on Twitter are a very vocal minority that broke through. Once they did, Hollywood capitalized, the issue is, HollyWood is also an eco-chamber, so it took forever for them to see issues with this.

2. Liberal voices - Most new writers for properties are likely super liberal and bring in fellow liberals that slowly fill a company. In a way, it is an ideological take-over.

3. Donald - The president seems perfect for comedy content and points. They are also probably scared of him as he and his audience seem against the Hollywood elites unlike say, Hillary Clinton. Most are probably trying to suppress him and followers as when given the means, both are capable of rip and tearing Hollywood a new one.

4. Brand recognition - The voices are usually heads of already big franchises, so their content flies for one entry and is super profitable. This leads companies to think woke is right. The issue is, that one successful entry typically kills the brand leading to bombs for the next movies.

5. Lack of Care/ Preparing for Replacement - Most woke things are around just for content as companies know someone will watch it. Whether it is being consumed by Gen X Obama lovers who love seeing Trump get made fun of or Millenial crazies, the political stuff will have an audience. At the time of woke culture, 2016, most TV and film companies are trying to jump online, so their goal is likely to just kill the channel to adapt to the times. A lack of care due to success also plays a role. The comics side of Marvel can tank, but since the movies are massive, Disney simply does not care as it is just content to make movies. I think most woke culture is just a killing of the past. Companies are going to move towards the internet as Gen Z and Millenials are there, in which they will likely start limiting woke projects. As for TV, since the main audience is Gen x and early Millenials, the two notable Democrat audiences, it is being supplemented for them.


I think it will be more pronounced than you think. While most will not declare it, comparing say the new Ghostbusters film to 2016 is a night and day difference. I think once these companies get fully online, the shift will be drastic are they are going to have to take on two generations that have more than likely abandoned them in favor of YouTube.

The real question is, what will the culture shift of 2020 be?

1. Agreed

2. Also agreed

3. The only reason why I put Doctor Strange 2 in the "safe" category alongside Black Widow is because of Sam Raimi being the supposed director for it. Because Sam Raimi has a loyal fanbase and has the legacy of the 2000's Spider-Man movies, people might tune in to see his take on the MCU or just so they can see if Bruce Campbell will show up for a cameo.

4. Agreed, to a point. The backlash started as early as 2013 with the response to Sarkeesian but as we saw with Gamergate and everything after, the media bigwigs often bowed to social media talking heads who more or less smeared any criticism of wokeness as bigotry and the work of evil Nazi incel strawmen.

Because most media companies are run by literal Boomers and the oldest of Generation X, they mistook the vocal minority of Twitter for the actual majority as you pointed out. But when I say an actual building mainstream backlash, I mean something that couldn't be easily snuffed out in the cradle before it could get big (as we saw with so many alt-tech platforms and independent creators) and had broad normie appeal.

Honestly, I'd say we didn't get the first real signs that the anti-woke backlash was working until Joker.

As much as Joker did get overhyped, it is the first R-rated movie to make over a billion at the box office in its first run, got nominated for Best Picture by the notoriously left-leaning Academy Awards, won Best Actor, and was preceded by a colossal smear campaign by SJW's hyping up fears over "evil white male Nazi incel" strawmen doing mass shootings.

The sheer ridiculousness of the fearmongering probably helped motivate people to go see the movie, and then word of mouth helped it sell even more because it is a good homage to early Scorsese (even if it had to masquerade as a capeshit movie)

Ghostbusters 2016 was the first big flop, but even then a lot of people blamed it on the usual strawmen and quite honestly, I think the woke culture war BS probably helped it sell more tickets than it would have without the controversy. I honestly think the movie would've likely flopped harder without the occasional dangerhair or bearded soyboy seeing it to "trigger and own the chuds" and it would've been doomed to total obscurity.

In terms of the movie side of things, Ghostbusters 2016 may have been the first major defeat for woke culture but Joker was the first genuine victory against woke culture

5. Partly agree. Disney will probably be as quiet and subtle in its shift as they can get away with since they've always been obsessed with maintaining a specific public image even by Hollywood standards, but I could see a few other studios being a bit more open about shifting away from the wokeness even if they don't openly denounce it like Doomcock and Quarter Pounder are hoping for.

As for what replaces the SJW zeitgeist? I honestly think we'll see a second anime boom in the "geek culture" side of things like we had in the early 2000's (but focused more online instead of cable) and the next "normie" trend will be different.

Given how badly the culture war BS has gotten and how the "geek is chic" fad overstayed its welcome thanks to things like the MCU, I think the old pre-2007 divide of "geek culture" and "normie pop culture" will more or less return to some extent.

I don't think "geek" media will be quite as stigmatized as it was in the 80's and 90's because so many of the barriers were torn down but I do think it could be more like how it was in the early and mid-2000's where it wasn't really mainstream but you could still be semi-open about liking geek media so long as you weren't a total obsessive sperg or stereotypical basement-dweller.

As for the cultural zeitgeist as a whole?

I think we'll see a brief but intense return to "edgy" escapist media for a while and embracing a lot of the more "problematic" tropes and genres for a bit as a palate cleanser followed by more middle-brow and mid-budget mainstream pop culture that is more grounded and serious than capeshit but is also not pretentious or overly "woke"/preachy.

The "geek" pop culture will likely keep on the edgy trajectory a little longer though in that kind of a scenario.

 

[-4ZURE-]

A few things to say...

Honestly, I'd say we didn't get the first real signs that the anti-woke backlash was working until Joker.

I would go earlier and say the Trump presidency was the first true victory. The man had every media corporation and left-wing Twitter mob after him from day one. Many of his own supporters even believed a presidency would be impossible, yet it happened.

Plus the effects of DT have cannot be understated. The dude has essentially killed television as a whole and made people distrust just about every news network. I can go over the countless things a Trump presidency has lead to, with the destruction of CNN, Nether Realm, the comics industry, multiple left-wing YouTubers, etc.. The dude has essentially turned everything outside of Gen X safe-spaces like FaceBook and Twitter into literal online support machines. TV was always dying, but since he became a shtick, the process has just gone faster than ever.

Joker was great, but Trump is really the culture changer that placed the every man on top of big businesses. It is rather impressive to see the culture change take place these past four years.

Partly agree. Disney will probably be as quiet and subtle in its shift as they can get away with since they've always been obsessed with maintaining a specific public image even by Hollywood standards, but I could see a few other studios being a bit more open about shifting away from the wokeness even if they don't openly denounce it like Doomcock and Quarter Pounder are hoping for.

I can see this, though I think Disney will get pushed. It is pretty clear that their competition for the family company is starting to be rivaled, so it is change or die. By this I mean, it seems that Disney is getting a bit threatened with Nintendo now chugging at full speed. Mario is the Mickey to many younger generations, and with Nintendo expanding, especially to theme parks, I think a duel is about to erupt.

Disney will likely have to pull a Nintendo and be apolitical to keep up.

As for what replaces the SJW zeitgeist? I honestly think we'll see a second anime boom in the "geek culture" side of things like we had in the early 2000's (but focused more online instead of cable) and the next "normie" trend will be different.

Given how badly the culture war BS has gotten and how the "geek is chic" fad overstayed its welcome thanks to things like the MCU, I think the old pre-2007 divide of "geek culture" and "normie pop culture" will more or less return to some extent.

I don't think "geek" media will be quite as stigmatized as it was in the 80's and 90's because so many of the barriers were torn down but I do think it could be more like how it was in the early and mid-2000's where it wasn't really mainstream but you could still be semi-open about liking geek media so long as you weren't a total obsessive sperg or stereotypical basement-dweller.

As for the cultural zeitgeist as a whole?

I think we'll see a brief but intense return to "edgy" escapist media for a while and embracing a lot of the more "problematic" tropes and genres for a bit as a palate cleanser followed by more middle-brow and mid-budget mainstream pop culture that is more grounded and serious than capeshit but is also not pretentious or overly "woke"/preachy.

The "geek" pop culture will likely keep on the edgy trajectory a little longer though in that kind of a scenario.

My belief on what will happen this decade is a bit scattered.

I see the cape movies going out soon. While I do not see superheroes going away entirely, I think a select that are able to adapt to modern times will stay. So likely Batman, SuperMan, Wonder Woman, and Spider-Man. Maybe a TMNT, but that is it. Characters like Iron Man and Captain America will likely go back to being obscure. X-Men has been so damaged to this point, and their metaphor for racism/discrimination likely being hated after SJW culture, I cannot see them continuing much. As for the Arrowverse characters, I just see roles in a Justice League show at best.

I believe anime will return as we are already seeing Narutu and Dragon Ball come back into popularity. Honestly more Japanese stuff in general will become big if Nintendo’s reawakening, the popularity of games like Persona 5, and just anime games in general have say.

I think geek culture will likely go more obscure, or atleast not be based on mainstream material like Star Wars or superheroes. I think video games will take a main bulk of geek culture and return to an early 2000s style. The big returns in popularity will be that of 3D platformers, RPGs, and probably more BOTW style open world adventures. This will replace shooters and walking simulators story based games. I think the big franchises will be Zelda, Mario, Crash Bandicoot, Sonic, Persona, Fire Emblem, Doom, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, Spyro, SpongeBob, Splatoon, Halo, Smash, etc.. Very PS2/GC era, I guess.

I think western animation may have a comeback. SpongeBob is already getting mass popularity again along with Adventure Time, so I would like to see where this goes.

Something tells me a sexual revolution is upon us as well. With the OnlyFans stuff happening online in bulk and the simp/egirl culture, I expect a reversal of 2013 where feminists cheer on women selling themselves online and showing skin, while the right goes off. I have no idea why I believe this will be important, but it seems like it will grow to be concerning.

 

[Syaoran Li]

A few things to say...

I would go earlier and say the Trump presidency was the first true victory. The man had every media corporation and left-wing Twitter mob after him from day one. Many of his own supporters even believed a presidency would be impossible, yet it happened.

Plus the effects of DT have cannot be understated. The dude has essentially killed television as a whole and made people distrust just about every news network. I can go over the countless things a Trump presidency has lead to, with the destruction of CNN, Nether Realm, the comics industry, multiple left-wing YouTubers, etc.. The dude has essentially turned everything outside of Gen X safe-spaces like FaceBook and Twitter into literal online support machines. TV was always dying, but since he became a shtick, the process has just gone faster than ever.

Joker was great, but Trump is really the culture changer that placed the every man on top of big businesses. It is rather impressive to see the culture change take place these past four years.


I can see this, though I think Disney will get pushed. It is pretty clear that their competition for the family company is starting to be rivaled, so it is change or die. By this I mean, it seems that Disney is getting a bit threatened with Nintendo now chugging at full speed. Mario is the Mickey to many younger generations, and with Nintendo expanding, especially to theme parks, I think a duel is about to erupt.

Disney will likely have to pull a Nintendo and be apolitical to keep up.


My belief on what will happen this decade is a bit scattered.

I see the cape movies going out soon. While I do not see superheroes going away entirely, I think a select that are able to adapt to modern times will stay. So likely Batman, SuperMan, Wonder Woman, and Spider-Man. Maybe a TMNT, but that is it. Characters like Iron Man and Captain America will likely go back to being obscure. X-Men has been so damaged to this point, and their metaphor for racism/discrimination likely being hated after SJW culture, I cannot see them continuing much. As for the Arrowverse characters, I just see roles in a Justice League show at best.

I believe anime will return as we are already seeing Narutu and Dragon Ball come back into popularity. Honestly more Japanese stuff in general will become big if Nintendo’s reawakening, the popularity of games like Persona 5, and just anime games in general have say.

I think geek culture will likely go more obscure, or atleast not be based on mainstream material like Star Wars or superheroes. I think video games will take a main bulk of geek culture and return to an early 2000s style. The big returns in popularity will be that of 3D platformers, RPGs, and probably more BOTW style open world adventures. This will replace shooters and walking simulators story based games. I think the big franchises will be Zelda, Mario, Crash Bandicoot, Sonic, Persona, Fire Emblem, Doom, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, Spyro, SpongeBob, Splatoon, Halo, Smash, etc.. Very PS2/GC era, I guess.

I think western animation may have a comeback. SpongeBob is already getting mass popularity again along with Adventure Time, so I would like to see where this goes.

Something tells me a sexual revolution is upon us as well. With the OnlyFans stuff happening online in bulk and the simp/egirl culture, I expect a reversal of 2013 where feminists cheer on women selling themselves online and showing skin, while the right goes off. I have no idea why I believe this will be important, but it seems like it will grow to be concerning.

I couldn't have said it better myself, although when I say Joker was the first real victory against woke culture, I was speaking only in terms of movies.

Donald Trump's 2016 win is the real first major game-changer in the grand scheme of things.

The sexual revolution stuff is a good thing to take note of as well when comparing the "before and after" of this culture war stuff, considering how in 2019-2020 we've seen the "traditionalist" Zoomer right-wingers like Nick Fuentes or The Distributist call for porn bans and a return to Christian morality.

Although this time in a distinctly Catholic form as opposed to the primarily Evangelical Protestant views that were the norm of the old Religious Right of the Reagan/Clinton/Bush eras.

Compare that to Anita Sarkeesian and the early SJW stuff that condemned sexy females and called for intentionally unattractive and unlikable characters and was very much opposed to sexuality (or at least hetero male sexuality) and while this sex-negative mindset is still prevalent among the video games and animation mediums, that's also because AAA games are notoriously expensive and take a long time to produce, so it would take longer for the influence of people like Anita to cycle out than it would for movies and online media.

American animation has the issue of CalArts being so dominant (both in the "CalArts style" sense of the word and the literal institution itself) but that's a bubble that's primed to burst as well and I suspect a lot of the SJW hatred for anime and manga and the calls for Patreon and Amazon to ban anime and manga/light novels (often by intentionally conflating the entire medium with creepy lolicon shit) is the result of Woke Twitter types who fall for corporate astroturfing from companies like Disney and Warner who are kind of afraid of a second anime boom taking root.

If we see a second Western Animation boom, it'll likely be more in the style of stuff like Spongebob and the early years of Adventure Time as well as the few genuine attempts at "anime-esque" cartoons that worked (think Avatar: The Last Airbender or the 2003 Teen Titans)

 

[-4ZURE-]

I think the big franchises will be Zelda, Mario, Crash Bandicoot, Sonic, Persona, Fire Emblem, Doom, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, Spyro, SpongeBob, Splatoon, Halo, Smash, etc..

Should have had Animal Crossing, Resident Evil, Kingdom Hearts, and Final Fantasy (primarily 7 Remake) to this list.

The sexual revolution stuff is a good thing to take note of as well, considering how in 2019-2020 we've seen the "traditionalist" Zoomer right-wingers like Nick Fuentes and The Distributist call for porn bans and a return to Christian morality, although this time in a distinctly Catholic form as opposed to the primarily Evangelical Protestant views that were the norm of the old Religious Right of the Reagan/Clinton/Bush eras.

I wonder how far this will go. As strong as the right is at the moment, many of their bigger voices of 2016 are seeming to taper off in popularity. I think Ben Shapiro and Lauren Southern are pretty good examples as they have just sort of become memes at this point. A lot of the right was built on opposite ideals to this, something that brought many previously left-wing followers in, so I feel like this call might fail. The reason OnlyFans is an issue is due to people like Idubbz and general simp culture. Porn does not have the same sort of “inter-personal relationships“ going on, so I feel most will be against this. That is to say, you are not buying a girlfriend when you get porn, unlike what most of the men who donate to OnlyFans or streamers think that platform does for them.

Compare that to Anita Sarkeesian and the early SJW stuff that condemned sexy females and called for intentionally unattractive and unlikable characters and was very much opposed to sexuality (or at least hetero male sexuality) and while this sex-negative mindset is still prevalent among the video games and animation mediums, that's also because AAA games are notoriously expensive and take a long time to produce, so it would take longer for the influence of people like Anita to cycle out than it would for movies and online media.

In some ways, I do not think we are going back. If Nintendo has shown anything, being very apolitical/ non-drama is a good sell. Look at Animal Crossing, the game has no clear sexualities, yet has this massive support from LGBT people. Fire Emblem toned down sex appeal significantly from Fates to 3H and got a best seller that is doing extremely well. The thing is, more girls than ever are playing games, along with LGBT and what have you, so companies are probably going to focus more on gameplay and personality than identities. Sexual games will still be present, but will more than likely be niche Japan titles outside of stuff like Bayonetta or Catherine.

American animation has the issue of CalArts being so dominant (both in the "CalArts style" sense of the word and the literal institution itself) but that's a bubble that's primed to burst as well and I suspect a lot of the SJW hatred for anime and manga and the calls for Patreon and Amazon to ban anime and manga/light novels (often by intentionally conflating the entire medium with creepy lolicon shit) is the result of Woke Twitter types who fall for corporate astroturfing from companies like Disney and Warner who are kind of afraid of a second anime boom taking root.

I think I heard that shows like Steven were not doing financially well, so the burst is bound to happen. After that, who knows? Maybe the chad Teen Titans Go will power move Steven.

If we see a second Western Animation boom, it'll likely be more in the style of stuff like Spongebob and the early years of Adventure Time as well as the few genuine attempts at "anime-esque" cartoons that worked (think Avatar: The Last Airbender or the 2003 Teen Titans)

Pretty much. Cartoons like Avatar, SpongeBob, Adventure Time, and Regular Show are all coming back. Even more obscure stuff like Zim is finding a place. Teen Titans is sort of a weird one, it was really popular in early Tumblr 2010s, but since has kinda been bashed a bit harder. It seems like Bruce Tim’s works are starting to become more highly regarded than it, and more surprising, the show is Justice League and Batman Beyond, not Batman TAS.

 

[Idiotron]

Disney is kind of in financial trouble at the moment, Corona fucked them up.
They've taken a bunch of loans. Big, multibillion Dollar loans from various sources.
They've also sold their debt to a lot of private enterprises.
That means that they need results in the next 5 years or Tony Soprano will send someone to break their knee caps.

If anything bombs, they won't try to do it again, only the money makers will stay.
They're not like Universal where 90% of their movies are shot for $5 million and are pretty much guaranteed a profit, every Disney movie is a major production.
The cheapest MCU movie had a $130 million budget, that's $300 million in gross just to break even.

I don't think that they can keep pandering to specific groups at this point, they have to make movies for everybody.
No more "white dudes btfo", no more "the Force is female".
They need billions and they need them yesterday.
Sure, stuff like Eternals and Lady Thor is being made but that was greenlit before Corona and times were different.
I'm fully expecting Disney going "peace, unity, love and having fun" real soon, especially now that the China/US economic conflict is getting heated and the Chinese market might not be an option in the future.

 

[guffrey__]

Disney is kind of in financial trouble at the moment, Corona fucked them up.
They've taken a bunch of loans. Big, multibillion Dollar loans from various sources.
They've also sold their debt to a lot of private enterprises.
That means that they need results in the next 5 years or Tony Soprano will send someone to break their knee caps.

If anything bombs, they won't try to do it again, only the money makers will stay.
They're not like Universal where 90% of their movies are shot for $5 million and are pretty much guaranteed a profit, every Disney movie is a major production.
The cheapest MCU movie had a $130 million budget, that's $300 million in gross just to break even.

I don't think that they can keep pandering to specific groups at this point, they have to make movies for everybody.
No more "white dudes btfo", no more "the Force is female".
They need billions and they need them yesterday.
Sure, stuff like Eternals and Lady Thor is being made but that was greenlit before Corona and times were different.
I'm fully expecting Disney going "peace, unity, love and having fun" real soon, especially now that the China/US economic conflict is getting heated and the Chinese market might not be an option in the future.

Basically this. They have to drop their propaganda cuz they need every shekel they can get. Stock prices dropped to $90 a share in the midst of the Rona, bounced back up a bit then crashed again. Not expecting them to go bankrupt or anything cuz, hello, it's Disney, but they definitely need to stabilize. The Star Wars trilogy was a huge flop, they've basically ruined that IP, and I think I heard something about the Stan Lee estate not wanting to pen their deal with Disney again and opting for another streaming service? Could be BS, but at this point, I wouldn't put it past them. No more activism for Disney for the forseeable future tho, for sure.

 

[Gar For Archer]

I think I heard that shows like Steven were not doing financially well, so the burst is bound to happen. After that, who knows? Maybe the chad Teen Titans Go will power move Steven.

Pretty much. Cartoons like Avatar, SpongeBob, Adventure Time, and Regular Show are all coming back. Even more obscure stuff like Zim is finding a place. Teen Titans is sort of a weird one, it was really popular in early Tumblr 2010s, but since has kinda been bashed a bit harder. It seems like Bruce Tim’s works are starting to become more highly regarded than it, and more surprising, the show is Justice League and Batman Beyond, not Batman TAS.

Where do Western cartoons make most of their money from? They definitely do not have the same level of merchandizing that big anime does, where you have adults spending thousands of dollars on figures, DVD box sets, body pillows... Outside of shirts you'd see at Hop Topic, Pop vinyls and plushies, I can hardly think of any cartoon merch at all.

If a bulk of the money is made back with ad money, then I can't picture a show like SU doing well financially, with its infamously horrible release schedule.

 

[-4ZURE-]

Where do Western cartoons make most of their money from? They definitely do not have the same level of merchandizing that big anime does, where you have adults spending thousands of dollars on figures, DVD box sets, body pillows... Outside of shirts you'd see at Hop Topic, Pop vinyls and plushies, I can hardly think of any cartoon merch at all.

They make money primarily through merchandise. Shows like TTG thrive off the fact that little kids are buying action figures and various other content. The issue with CN is most of their shows made in house (Not DC or Warner) have little to no merchandise for the first few years, making it hard to say. I guess ads are the big thing keeping them alive.

If a bulk of the money is made back with ad money, then I can't picture a show like SU doing well financially, with its infamously horrible release schedule.

While the source may be questionable, I heard the Steven Universe schedule actually keeps the show alive. The show does not pull in big numbers, so CN unleashes it during weeks full of dead space on tv so it can pick up viewership. I guess they did not want to cancel it, maybe because it is the first female show runner and the fan base and SJWs alike will probably tear apart the company if they do so.

I don't think that they can keep pandering to specific groups at this point, they have to make movies for everybody.

I actually disagree with this.
We live in the internet age where people are more divided in interests than every. Disney would be smart to have smaller projects appealing to various niche demographics rather than big movies for everyone. I know what you mean, as no politics, which I agree with, but having more MCU or Star Wars schlock is not going to help either. With more projects, they can make up for losses unlike spending millions on a Marvel bomb.

They should try stuff like Tron again, maybe do some more experimental Star Wars content like the western inspired Mandalorian, create a Joker for gods sake, just anything. Disney animation should also be brought back as it has all been dead since Zootopia with the only long lasting exception being Moana. Stuff like Ralph 2 and Frozen 2 just had no lasting power.

China/US economic

I really want to know how this will go. China is big money for studios, but we are slowly coming to the point where studios must pick a side, regardless of any bans. I think Mulan will be interesting as many are starting boycotts over China influence.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Basically this. They have to drop their propaganda cuz they need every shekel they can get. Stock prices dropped to $90 a share in the midst of the Rona, bounced back up a bit then crashed again. Not expecting them to go bankrupt or anything cuz, hello, it's Disney, but they definitely need to stabilize. The Star Wars trilogy was a huge flop, they've basically ruined that IP, and I think I heard something about the Stan Lee estate not wanting to pen their deal with Disney again and opting for another streaming service? Could be BS, but at this point, I wouldn't put it past them. No more activism for Disney for the forseeable future tho, for sure.

I have a theory that the current BLM protests are the dying spasms of the woke movement, trying to strongarm corporations to display their loyalty for the fear of losing control. But with the positive coverage and cooporeation they might still be strong after all.

Also I wouldn't be surprised that Biden's staff has some under the table agreement that if they wins, then Disney and media companies will get a massive pay package from the government that will be justified (if it even gets reported) as Biden protecting the media after Drumpf attacked it. So we'll only know the situation after the elections.

 

[Basil II]

Exactly, we might see more of that now considering we only have had one film post snap. But even that is weird, id love to know more about the bureaucratic mess of the snap. Like with ages, biologically youre 13 but the calendar says youre 18, can you buy smokes or join the army? What about porn? I bet there os a shitload of literal teens in porn post snap. You really think 13 year olds wouldnt be immediately taken by porn producers?

Even alcohol. Im surprised they didnt mention it in spiderman but there are probably a huge amount of high schoolers openly drinking during school hours because its legal now.

Especially as a teenager imagine your boufriend suddenly being 5 years older. Like do you know how much statutory rape must be happening. I bet people dont even give a shit about Age of consent in that universe now because of how all high school relationships are now pedophilic.

I know they wont answer it but the most realistic conclusion would be for age of consent and age of majority to be 13 now in the US, and id really shudder to think how low it would drop in other countries. And if it really was half the population no government could keep track of all those people. And after 5 years people would have gotten over it as would businesses. We all know how immigration destroys wages and economics, now imagine we had the population double overnight. Didnt they consider them dead by that point too? You could make an entire legal drama dealing with all the red tape from that.

lmao this is almost as horrifying as Enter's sperg ""cartoon"" fantasy. I guess actual writers aren't that far off from him.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

I don't think BW will bomb. She deserves to succeed especially after they ruined her pointlessly in Endgame. (I don't buy that the female staffers were in agreement about her sacrifice)

Thing about the Eternals vs GOTG (as shitty as those films were minus the soundtrack) is that Eternals are essentially unknown even by diehard Marvel fans. I suppose they think with the film being made that they can relaunch in the comics? And also the only well known characters of the group are Sersei and Black Knight.....not much to go on especially with that dumb love triangle bullshit. No way in hell would Gemma Chan ever have to choose between Curdled Milk bois Jon Snow and Flop Stark.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Thing about the Eternals vs GOTG (as shitty as those films were minus the soundtrack) is that Eternals are essentially unknown even by diehard Marvel fans. I suppose they think with the film being made that they can relaunch in the comics? And also the only well known characters of the group are Sersei and Black Knight.....not much to go on especially with that dumb love triangle bullshit. No way in hell would Gemma Chan ever have to choose between Curdled Milk bois Jon Snow and Flop Stark.

Are you implying casuals actually knew who the Guardians were before the movie? I saw next to no indication of that, and there was legitimate suspicion that the original GotG might bomb due to the casual audiences ignorance of who they were.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Are you implying casuals actually knew who the Guardians were before the movie? I saw next to no indication of that, and there was legitimate suspicion that the original GotG might bomb due to the casual audiences ignorance of who they were.

You are correct but it was successful because it was a funny star wars esque type film full of a bunch of lovable assholes.
Eternals is a straight up serious film about gods with a boring cliche love triangle and some of the worst outfits this side of Brie's ugly Karen haircut. They're trying to appeal with diversity (every color of the poc rainbow AND an asian female director to tick off the white old men! Oh look a Latina is the leader, theres a gay black man with *gasp* a family, and Angelina Jolie!)

 

[Gar For Archer]

They make money primarily through merchandise. Shows like TTG thrive off the fact that little kids are buying action figures and various other content. The issue with CN is most of their shows made in house (Not DC or Warner) have little to no merchandise for the first few years, making it hard to say. I guess ads are the big thing keeping them alive.

While the source may be questionable, I heard the Steven Universe schedule actually keeps the show alive. The show does not pull in big numbers, so CN unleashes it during weeks full of dead space on tv so it can pick up viewership. I guess they did not want to cancel it, maybe because it is the first female show runner and the fan base and SJWs alike will probably tear apart the company if they do so.

Well that's fucking stupid. Why would they NOT merchandize everything they possibly can?

I actually disagree with this.
We live in the internet age where people are more divided in interests than every. Disney would be smart to have smaller projects appealing to various niche demographics rather than big movies for everyone. I know what you mean, as no politics, which I agree with, but having more MCU or Star Wars schlock is not going to help either. With more projects, they can make up for losses unlike spending millions on a Marvel bomb.

They should try stuff like Tron again, maybe do some more experimental Star Wars content like the western inspired Mandalorian, create a Joker for gods sake, just anything. Disney animation should also be brought back as it has all been dead since Zootopia with the only long lasting exception being Moana. Stuff like Ralph 2 and Frozen 2 just had no lasting power.


I really want to know how this will go. China is big money for studios, but we are slowly coming to the point where studios must pick a side, regardless of any bans. I think Mulan will be interesting as many are starting boycotts over China influence.

Unless the movie market undergoes a permanent shift to paid VOD (NOT streaming) being the primary release method, it's simply not profitable to focus on movies that appeal specifically to a niche audience, because by definition movies like that don't fucking sell. The answer isn't to pump money into movies that they KNOW will barely make back the budget, but to not make movies that rely solely on hundred-million-dollar CGI action scenes to sell tickets. Joker proved that you can make a relatively low-budget character-focused lite-artsy R-rated film that nonetheless has enough mass appeal to break a billion dollars at the box office WITHOUT CHINA.

With the likely upcoming contraction of the Chinese movie market (whom these CGI spectacles are usually targeted towards) and a simple lack of budget caused by the lockdown, studios will be forced to shift away from big dumb action blockbusters and towards more grounded character/story focused movies, simply because those are cheaper to make while still being able to draw in an audience.

 

[UnKillFill]

You know, I hope that Corona isn't used as the scapegoat when Black Widow bombs. Unlike in other versions, Natasha in the MCU was never all that interesting. The only way they got even close to making her interesting, was to make her *not* be Natasha. (The stuff with her and Hulk in Avengers 2 was *really* good, even though it literally came out of nowhere... and never came up again in any other film since...)

Obviously Black Widow is supposed to be Russian, but Scarlet Johansson isn't a great, or even a good, actress... So it was actually better that she didn't even try to pretend to be Russian before the previews I've seen of BW. It was easier to just pretend that the MCU version of the Black Widow was supposed to be an American with the personality of a plank of wood...

R.I.P. MCU.

 

[Kulee Baba]

You know, I hope that Corona isn't used as the scapegoat when Black Widow bombs. Unlike in other versions, Natasha in the MCU was never all that interesting. The only way they got even close to making her interesting, was to make her *not* be Natasha. (The stuff with her and Hulk in Avengers 2 was *really* good, even though it literally came out of nowhere... and never came up again in any other film since...)

Obviously Black Widow is supposed to be Russian, but Scarlet Johansson isn't a great, or even a good, actress... So it was actually better that she didn't even try to pretend to be Russian before the previews I've seen of BW. It was easier to just pretend that the MCU version of the Black Widow was supposed to be an American with the personality of a plank of wood...

R.I.P. MCU.

I don't think Black Widow will bomb, given the current circumstances I think Disney will keep delaying the film until whenever the Coronavirus ends. If that doesn't happen by 2021, which is rather likely IMO they're going to just have it be on Disney+ and everyone waiting for Mandalorian Season 2 will watch it allowing Disney to say it was a hit.

Eternals is a different matter. I still can't believe that film was greenlit and I genuinely believe they're bound to sweep it under the rug like their did Artemis Fowl.

 

[Syaoran Li]

You know, I hope that Corona isn't used as the scapegoat when Black Widow bombs. Unlike in other versions, Natasha in the MCU was never all that interesting. The only way they got even close to making her interesting, was to make her *not* be Natasha. (The stuff with her and Hulk in Avengers 2 was *really* good, even though it literally came out of nowhere... and never came up again in any other film since...)

Obviously Black Widow is supposed to be Russian, but Scarlet Johansson isn't a great, or even a good, actress... So it was actually better that she didn't even try to pretend to be Russian before the previews I've seen of BW. It was easier to just pretend that the MCU version of the Black Widow was supposed to be an American with the personality of a plank of wood...

R.I.P. MCU.

Eh, I think Black Widow is the one MCU film scheduled on here that's the least likely to bomb and for a variety of reasons. If it does bomb, the blame will be placed on Corona.

The real one to watch out for is Eternals, I think that one's going to be the "big one" that bombs and they can't blame that on Corona like they can with a 2020 release.

A back-to-back flop of Eternals and Lady Thor will probably terminate the franchise, especially if Doctor Strange 2 bombs (or even just underperforms) or if Black Widow underperforms.

If we're lucky, the MCU will die in utmost disgrace before we can even get to see the X-Men and Fantastic Four in the franchise....

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

You know, I hope that Corona isn't used as the scapegoat when Black Widow bombs. Unlike in other versions, Natasha in the MCU was never all that interesting. The only way they got even close to making her interesting, was to make her *not* be Natasha. (The stuff with her and Hulk in Avengers 2 was *really* good, even though it literally came out of nowhere... and never came up again in any other film since...)

Obviously Black Widow is supposed to be Russian, but Scarlet Johansson isn't a great, or even a good, actress... So it was actually better that she didn't even try to pretend to be Russian before the previews I've seen of BW. It was easier to just pretend that the MCU version of the Black Widow was supposed to be an American with the personality of a plank of wood...

R.I.P. MCU.

Lmao I wasn't aware that the MCU required Oscar level worthy acting. You act like she's the worst when Jeremy Renner, Brie Larson, and Natalie Portman are right there. See also: anytime Mark Ruffalo tries in Avengers.

Are you still butthurt about Laura Bailey being a flop lol. She plays Natasha in other things.

You can blame Ike Perlmutter for her not getting a solo film years ago and Joss Whedon is the misogynist who put that retarded romance plot in.