Law Judge Rules that Geofence Warrants are 'Categorically Prohibited by 4th Amendment' - 'General, exploratory rummaging' by law enforcement is illegal.

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Judge Rules that Geofence Warrants are 'Categorically Prohibited by 4th Amendment'​

'General, exploratory rummaging' by law enforcement is illegal.

by Ethan Huff | Natural News
August 20th 2024, 6:09 am

The federal Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals is maintaining its position that so-called geofence warrants, which were used to track Jan. 6, 2021, “insurrection” participants, are “categorically prohibited by the Fourth Amendment,” which protects We the People from unreasonable searches and seizures by law enforcement and other arms of the government.

Judge James C. Ho issued an opinion that while geofence warrants “are powerful tools for investigating and deterring crime,” they overtly violate the U.S. Constitution and the protections it affords to people living in this country.


“The defendants here engaged in a violent robbery – and likely would have gotten away with it, but for this new technology,” Judge Ho wrote. “So I fully recognize that our panel decision today will inevitably hamper legitimate law enforcement interests.”

“But hamstringing the government is the whole point of our Constitution. Our Founders recognized that the government will not always be comprised of publicly-spirited officers – and that even good faith actors can be overcome by the zealous pursuit of legitimate public interests.”

Justice Ho also quoted The Federalist No. 51, at 349 (J. Cooke ed. 1961) which reads in support of his ruling:
“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary,” but “experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions” because of “human nature,” which makes it “necessary to control the abuses of government.”

Supreme Court decision in Carpenter v. United States concurs with Judge Ho’s decision​

Recognizing that he and his panel’s decision “is not costless,” Judge Ho continued in his opinion to emphasize the fact that our rights as Americans under the Constitution “are priceless” and are not something with which to be toyed.

“Reasonable minds can differ, of course, over the proper balance to strike between public interests and individual rights,” he further said.

“Time and time again, modern technology has proven to be a blessing as well as a curse. Our panel decision today endeavors to apply our Founding charter to the realities of modern technology, consistent with governing precedent. I concur in that decision.”

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) commented on the ruling as well by citing the Supreme Court’s landmark ruling in Carpenter v. United States. In that case, it was decided that “individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the location data implicated by geofence warrants.”

The EFF noted in that case that SCOTUS likewise determined geofence warrants to be unconstitutional because they require a provider, usually Google, to search “the entirety” of its location data “while law enforcement officials have no idea who they are looking for or whether the search will even turn up a result.”

Geofence warrants afford cops too much leeway to probe for evidence without reasonable suspicion or an actual warrant as traditionally defined. As such, geofence warrants violate Americans’ constitutional rights by their very definition.

Since the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled the opposite way, the issue will likely make its way all the way up to the Supreme Court, which will make a final decision on the matter.

“SCOTUS has long ruled against open and blanket warrants,” wrote someone on X about which direction the final ruling will probably go.

“They knew the ‘geofencing’ surveillance method was unconstitutional; why do you think they didn’t go after the 2000 Mules?” asked another.
 
Rummaging is such a great word. It comes from the concept of arranging things in ships holds, and a rummage was a sale of things on a dock.
 
Cool, hopefully the sentences of J6ers will be commuted in light of this new legal decision.
 
But hamstringing the government is the whole point of our Constitution
Finally, someone who gets it.

Yes, it's a hard and long process to deprive someone of their rights, even if you do it by the book.

That's the POINT.

I've often felt 99% of law enforcement investigative abuses are directly the result of laziness. They don't want to camp out in your neighborhood for a month and surveil you coming and going until they learn your schedule enough to figure out when you might be doing something illegal and then spend another month watching that until you drop enough evidence for a warrant. They want to just pop the locks and rummage around for 5 minutes and then knock off for coffee for the rest of the day.... so can't we just ignore this whole warrant thing? I mean, its taking us FOREVER......
 
A geo-fence warrant (also known as a geofence warrant or a reverse location warrant) is a search warrant issued by a court to allow law enforcement to search a database to find all active mobile devices within a particular geo-fence area.
Putting this here for my own sake. If I understand this correctly: you could have your device searched just for being in the general vicinity of the event even if you didn't participate i.e. you were walking nearby and the geofence picked up your device. If that's the case, that sounds like some serious bullshit...
 
Finally, someone who gets it.

Yes, it's a hard and long process to deprive someone of their rights, even if you do it by the book.

That's the POINT.

I've often felt 99% of law enforcement investigative abuses are directly the result of laziness. They don't want to camp out in your neighborhood for a month and surveil you coming and going until they learn your schedule enough to figure out when you might be doing something illegal and then spend another month watching that until you drop enough evidence for a warrant. They want to just pop the locks and rummage around for 5 minutes and then knock off for coffee for the rest of the day.... so can't we just ignore this whole warrant thing? I mean, its taking us FOREVER......
You obviously haven't gotten the New and Improved Bill of Rights (tm) that adds "...unless it makes law enforcement's job harder in which case the aforementioned rights are expendable."
 
Putting this here for my own sake. If I understand this correctly: you could have your device searched just for being in the general vicinity of the event even if you didn't participate i.e. you were walking nearby and the geofence picked up your device. If that's the case, that sounds like some serious bullshit...
The geofence warrant allows LE to search third party records to see which devices were in a certain area at a certain time. Phone companies, Google, Grindr, etc. all store their users' location data, and if they receive a valid warrant, they will hand it over. The warrant does not provide access to the devices themselves.
 
The geofence warrant allows LE to search third party records to see which devices were in a certain area at a certain time. Phone companies, Google, Grindr, etc. all store their users' location data, and if they receive a valid warrant, they will hand it over. The warrant does not provide access to the devices themselves.
I see, thank you. So what happens after they discover some devices in a certain area and at a certain time? Do they just find who owned said devices and then they go knocking on doors or what?
 
Isn't this how they got their suspect in those 4 Idaho college kid murders? But the FBI doesn't want to release how they arrived on him as a suspect through geofencing and refuses to give the information to both the prosecutor and defendant.....which is one of the biggest pillars of evidence against him? That case is a lot weirder than you might expect.
 
There's a lot of police state bullshit that needs to be reigned in by the courts, another common one is

"Oh we can't get a warrant because there's no evidence? Np we'll just fly a drone with an infrared camera over your property and then use footages from that to arrest you."
 
Finally, someone who gets it.

Yes, it's a hard and long process to deprive someone of their rights, even if you do it by the book.

That's the POINT.

I've often felt 99% of law enforcement investigative abuses are directly the result of laziness. They don't want to camp out in your neighborhood for a month and surveil you coming and going until they learn your schedule enough to figure out when you might be doing something illegal and then spend another month watching that until you drop enough evidence for a warrant. They want to just pop the locks and rummage around for 5 minutes and then knock off for coffee for the rest of the day.... so can't we just ignore this whole warrant thing? I mean, its taking us FOREVER......
Hopefully they can stand up to what will come at them for this...
 
Isn't this how they got their suspect in those 4 Idaho college kid murders? But the FBI doesn't want to release how they arrived on him as a suspect through geofencing and refuses to give the information to both the prosecutor and defendant.....which is one of the biggest pillars of evidence against him? That case is a lot weirder than you might expect.
I think it was a Null podcast but I remember that there was a case where the feds somehow nailed a pedo for a cache of CSAM ("somehow" being the main issue), but ended up dropping the case entirely because the perp lawyered up and it came down to "tell the court how you did it and he goes to prison, or don't and he goes free".
 
I see, thank you. So what happens after they discover some devices in a certain area and at a certain time? Do they just find who owned said devices and then they go knocking on doors or what?
It basically gives them a list of people in the area and then they start checking the list for possible suspects. The scary thing is that you likely wouldn't have known this happened:
  1. Your name appears on the list of devices around the crime area.
  2. They look your name up in public/criminal records and social media to see if you would be a likely suspect.
  3. If they don't find any red flags they cross your name off and move on without ever contacting you.
This tech is way too powerful for the police to let the courts cockblock them. They will get back to doing this with clever legal wording and loopholes.
 
I think it was a Null podcast but I remember that there was a case where the feds somehow nailed a pedo for a cache of CSAM ("somehow" being the main issue), but ended up dropping the case entirely because the perp lawyered up and it came down to "tell the court how you did it and he goes to prison, or don't and he goes free".
Yea, I remember that too on Null's stream. The pedo was using the Tor browser which was touted as providing as much anonymity a person could have while browsing the internet and the actual dark web, but obviously alphabet agency has backdoor access.
 
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