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Jesus is canon - A flood of Satanic movies share a plot hole: CHRIST IS KING
He goes a bit deep into the two Ready or Not movies from 4:35-10:34, so spoiler warning if you care.
Basic problem:
Films that use Christian theology, specifically Satanic elements, for their horror element are working from well-established source material.
The source material says Satan and his minions are created beings made by a greater power, the Christian God.
A core element of Satan's nature is that he is weaker than God, and ultimately loses. He gets bossed around and defeated by Jesus.
The movies who reference the power of the Christian devil rarely reference the power of the Christian Christ. If they did it would break a lot of the story.
Writing problems:
Modern Hollywood created the "unholy trilogy" of horror tropes, which show evil triumphing because good is weak. (Or futile, in the case of the Exorcist.)
But if a character knows about Biblical Satan, they should know about Biblical Jesus, or at least Biblical God, who easily defeats him.
This should create a lot of "outs" for the characters, or at least warn off the people making deals with the devil.
By the "lore", the evil literally can not exist without the good. And it's not a balance of equal forces, one is definitively the lesser.
It's at least weird the entire bent of the genre is to amplify the power of objective evil, while belittling the power of objective good.
TL;DR Modern horror writers don't know how to account for the fact that Jesus wrecks their cheap little plots.
Well, God doesn't always rescue people from the forces of darkness. Things like demonic possession are real, and it doesn't always end well for the possessed. Why? We don't know. If you solve the problem of evil, let me know.
If you want a religious horror movie that's heavy on the religion part and actually handles the question well without pushing an answer, check out a movie called the Borderlands, known in some countries as The Last Prayer. It's not for everybody, but if you can go in with an open mind it's surprisingly thoughtful on this exact topic.
pretty much anything that says "devil" by default says "jeebus" by omission unless they go hard in the fucking paint to establish an order of the show's own, like Hellraiser did a decent job of that iirc then the trash later sequels were just "lol no it was just normal god/devil bullshit"
pretty much anything that says "devil" by default says "jeebus" by omission unless they go hard in the fucking paint to establish an order of the show's own, like Hellraiser did a decent job of that iirc then the trash later sequels were just "lol no it was just normal god/devil bullshit"
Limiting the question to the first two movies, which I think eliminates the confusion of the trash sequels, is there anything depicted that contradicts the existence of Jesus / God / Heaven in that universe? One of the last significant plot points of the 1st movie was Frank, wearing Larry's skin, saying "Jesus wept" right before getting ripped apart and sent back to hell. I always took this as Jesus weeping for another soul refusing to accept Him as they are condemned for eternity, yet again. We never did see Larry in hell - the Hell Priest claims he is in a 'hell of his own', but that could very easily be interpreted as a lie in order to try and break Kirsty's spirit. Very much on-brand for an inter-dimensional entity tasked with claiming souls for hell.
I always thought the scariest part of the Hellraiser series was that it was a depiction of what hell could look like, insomuch as that it plays by the 'rules' of Christian morality, showing horrible things that could transpire as souls are separated further and further from God, and that Kirsty's redemption in Hellbound was not so much a function of the puzzle box, but rather that of her putting Tiffany's needs above her own, which is a demonstration of conquering Pride. (sorry for the run-on sentence)
I'd love to hear another take, especially one contradicting mine.
I admit, I enjoy certain aspects of most of the series, even after #2. I can only remember one movie where I hated it so much, I regretted wasting time on it. But the quality drop overall is so incredibly obvious, it feels like a crime to include them in the same series. Most of them weren't even originally written to be Hellraiser movies, just adapted to keep the licensing intact, and it shows. I think Hellbound has a case for being the best horror movie of all time.
I admit, I enjoy certain aspects of most of the series, even after #2. I can only remember one movie where I hated it so much, I regretted wasting time on it. But the quality drop overall is so incredibly obvious, it feels like a crime to include them in the same series. Most of them weren't even originally written to be Hellraiser movies, just adapted to keep the licensing intact, and it shows. I think Hellbound has a case for being the best horror movie of all time.
oh yeah even the trashy dumb shit is still fun monsterslop
it was front of mind because my wife had on some recent-ish sequel where Pinhead kills some angel and then he ends up some random homeless dude as punishment from God and I was sorta "wait, like, the Hell Razors are in the same setting as real God?"
oh yeah even the trashy dumb shit is still fun monsterslop
it was front of mind because my wife had on some recent-ish sequel where Pinhead kills some angel and then he ends up some random homeless dude as punishment from God and I was sorta "wait, like, the Hell Razors are in the same setting as real God?"
Yeah, that was Judgment (I had to look up the names, they're not worth remembering which movie is which). That leaned way too heavily into the whole 'eternal struggle of heaven v hell' stuff, which the series never really did before. I think Pinhead was best portrayed as someone completely separated from anything to do with God, rather than someone working as an administrator of the 'divine system' or whatever.
I actually did like the plot, they just shouldn't have slapped the Hellraiser skin on it (ironic, considering skinwalking was a major theme of the series). It would have worked thematically, though probably not financially (not that Hellraiser sequels were financially successful anyways, lmfao), as its own franchise. They could have had the divine auditors/lawyers/judges, etc. going through the process with all sorts of different characters. It could have been really good.
They know exactly how to account for him: you don't include him.
Imagine for a second a horror movie called "The Devil's Touch" and the problem is just quickly resolved the instant the priest shows up and goes "Praise Jesus!" It would be the lamest movie in the fucking world. (the only time this is done in my memory is "Rock and Roll Nightmare" and its played as turning the tables on Beelzebub. It turns a middling budget horror movie into a comedy in the last ten minutes)
This also accounts for what the point of some of these movies is. The Exorcist highlights an actual shaking of faith and the sacrifice of Karras to protect the innocent. If the priests just showed up and exorcised the demon the actual story would not be poignant. If anything it *not* working highlights that the characters lack the conviction in their own faith, surely a demon can tell when the words you speak are hollow?
More like a Fallout: Frontier style mod. Includes an interesting idea or two, but the insane amount of faggotry makes it in the end a complete write-off.
They know exactly how to account for him: you don't include him.
Imagine for a second a horror movie called "The Devil's Touch" and the problem is just quickly resolved the instant the priest shows up and goes "Praise Jesus!" It would be the lamest movie in the fucking world.
Yeah, but that's part of his point. They're taking writing shortcuts because they want the built-in dread and horror of Satanism specifically, without accounting for Satan's weaknesses.
Consider the technological version of this problem: cell phones. As soon as they became more common than landlines, every horror movie had the problem of the audience saying "well if they're in trouble, just call the cops on their cell phone". So every movie changed its writing to account for this. A character has to hold up their phone and say "we don't get a signal out here!", or there's 2 second shot of a phone falling and breaking, or a closeup of the battery hitting 0%. Something has to account for the known immediate fix or else the entire chase and ending seems ridiculous.
A lot of directors even set their movies in the pre-cell phone era, which lets them do a nostalgia piece while solving the Internet problem too. Instant communication makes entire stories like Romeo and Juliet fall apart, because they depend on poor or impossible communication. Good writing has to deal with things like this to keep a movie believable.
It's worth noting that back in the 80s-90s, a lot of the slasher movies had to deal with the similar problem of widespread landline use. So you'll often see a scene in slasher movies where the killer cuts the phone line, and a victim character picks up the phone to announce "the line is dead!" The first Scream movie started with a clever subversion of this exact trope: the killer used the phone line itself to create fear and horror.
The Exorcist is an example of good writing handling the problem correctly, with the lack of faith preventing an easy solution. The video's complaint there is that Exorcist fits into a larger genre-wide trend of showing evil triumphing, when the mythos says good triumphs in the end. In fact evil isn't even a match for the divine power opposing it; Satan himself flees in fear when Jesus' name is invoked against him.
You can easily do modern horror without having the spiritual version of the cell phone problem mentioned above: just write your own mythos. Of course that takes more setup, better writing, believable world-building, etc. Yes, many of these movies are cheaply made throwaway flavor of the months, trying to cash in on decent box office with a tiny budget. However, better writing isn't more expensive to film, and writing your own spiritual/pseudo-demonic folklore is free. Just don't involve Satan. But it's easier to just go into a dead guy's room, open a book about "demonology", and see directions for whatever ritual the director wants in the final scene.
That would normally be a nitpick, but I just described the "secret reveal" scene of at least 50 horror movies from the last few decades. It's now a trope, which would be fine, except the mythos has a cell phone problem built in. The stupid thing is, books on demonology wouldn't say "you have to trap the demon in the sacred wood figure in the middle of a circle at midnight in the place of his first kill without looking in a mirror", or whatever. The solution would be "pray and cast out this sucker by his name, you'll be done in 10 seconds."
You can still make a good movie while having these problems; Fallen is my example for an otherwise good movie with a completely ridiculous possession mechanic. But we aren't getting Fallen or The Exorcist any more, we're just getting a slew of dumb characters doing dumb demon things, ignoring the spiritual cell phone ringing in their soul pocket.
