Is There a God? - Lol

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horsemeat69 dijo:
I always liked the idea that this life is one big test; a simulation of sorts. People are put through different life situations to see how they react - make poor decisions and show yourself to struggle under pressure, and you are a reject from the exercise and go to the largest trashcan in the universe; show yourself to be able to think objectively and not fall for tricks and tempations - go on to serve some further purpose.

You could make a solid case that the God of Christianity is running some kind of operation along these lines. You even get to tie in a bit of 40K, as there is (very limited) Biblical evidence that some kind of eternal spiritual war is being waged, and that we are not God's first creation.
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None of that fits with an all knowing god. Why test your own creations acting within the framework of another of your creations when you already know the outcome? You knew the outcome before you did it. A rather pointless test, isn't it?

Now if you want to propose a less than all knowing god these sorts of things start to work (sorta) but that's not the bible god. Then you're looking at something more like an advance form of life or something.

I mean, I can totally buy some extra intelligent human-like beings doing some dumb fucking shit like that, because I see the dumb fucking shit humans get up to. We love creating unrealistic and unwinnable virtue tests.
 
Corbin Dallas Multipass dijo:
None of that fits with an all knowing god. Why test your own creations acting within the framework of another of your creations when you already know the outcome? You knew the outcome before you did it. A rather pointless test, isn't it?

Now if you want to propose a less than all knowing god these sorts of things start to work (sorta) but that's not the bible god. Then you're looking at something more like an advance form of life or something.

I mean, I can totally buy some extra intelligent human-like beings doing some dumb fucking shit like that, because I see the dumb fucking shit humans get up to. We love creating unrealistic and unwinnable virtue tests.
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Its a challenging topic, because it essentially forces me/the opposing party to both define God's abilities, and then also their intentions - which is difficult to do given the limited amount of evidence we have to work with. But its a very interesting question nethertheless

Heres what we do know with at least some degree of certainty
1. Theres no evidence he is actively anticipating at the time that the Jews would prove to be lousy followers, and this only gradually became apparent as time went on
2. There is some evidence that he was open to the possibility of Job remaining faithful, or turning away during his trial
3. Theres some evidence he knew the OT plan would go to shit, as there are a few passages in the OT outlining Jesus coming in the far future - but these passages are written quite a bit later, so its difficult to say exactly where Jesus is an optional plan B, or whether he knew from the very start that Jesus would be required.

With these three points in mind, "all knowing" has always been a bit of a strawman. It looks like God's able to know/predict outcomes, but also open to the the possibility of things changing. From this ill conclude - what says he doesnt have different action plans for different outcomes? Different forks in the road open up different threads of fate, and you could make the case that God simply has a different action plan for different threads.
 
horsemeat69 dijo:
Its a challenging topic, because it essentially forces me/the opposing party to both define God's abilities, and then also their intentions - which is difficult to do given the limited amount of evidence we have to work with. But its a very interesting question nethertheless

Heres what we do know with at least some degree of certainty
1. Theres no evidence he is actively anticipating at the time that the Jews would prove to be lousy followers, and this only gradually became apparent as time went on
2. There is some evidence that he was open to the possibility of Job remaining faithful, or turning away during his trial
3. Theres some evidence he knew the OT plan would go to shit, as there are a few passages in the OT outlining Jesus coming in the far future - but these passages are written quite a bit later, so its difficult to say exactly where Jesus is an optional plan B, or whether he knew from the very start that Jesus would be required.

With these three points in mind, "all knowing" has always been a bit of a strawman. It looks like God's able to know/predict outcomes, but also open to the the possibility of things changing. From this ill conclude - what says he doesnt have different action plans for different outcomes? Different forks in the road open up different threads of fate, and you could make the case that God simply has a different action plan for different threads.
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The name Jesus is not the original name the original name was yeshua the Christ . yeshua in English means salvation and Christ means anointed one but different languages can be complicated it's anointed one yet in a sense hands towards an oil like anointing oil can like some languages have masculine and feminine words so when you fully translate it it would say that God is going to send his anointed oil of salvation to save man. With that said hopefully it'll be easier to understand when I say it was never a person it was a thing that happened in that thing was the sacred secretion the Christos oil that sits in your spine at the base for 3 days before Rising back up again to the pituitary gland ancient text were usually done in a metaphorical sense like a story where all the characters are just merely representing something else so you have to translate it even though it's in your language
 
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horsemeat69 dijo:
Its a challenging topic, because it essentially forces me/the opposing party to both define God's abilities, and then also their intentions - which is difficult to do given the limited amount of evidence we have to work with. But its a very interesting question nethertheless

Heres what we do know with at least some degree of certainty
1. Theres no evidence he is actively anticipating at the time that the Jews would prove to be lousy followers, and this only gradually became apparent as time went on
2. There is some evidence that he was open to the possibility of Job remaining faithful, or turning away during his trial
3. Theres some evidence he knew the OT plan would go to shit, as there are a few passages in the OT outlining Jesus coming in the far future - but these passages are written quite a bit later, so its difficult to say exactly where Jesus is an optional plan B, or whether he knew from the very start that Jesus would be required.

With these three points in mind, "all knowing" has always been a bit of a strawman. It looks like God's able to know/predict outcomes, but also open to the the possibility of things changing. From this ill conclude - what says he doesnt have different action plans for different outcomes? Different forks in the road open up different threads of fate, and you could make the case that God simply has a different action plan for different threads.
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Hey I'm not the one who wrote "Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent" in the bible. That's judeo-christian god. If you're talking about a god with incomplete knowledge you're not talking about that one. God can do ANYTHING can't he?

He made EVERYTHING. How can he not know the outcome? The universe within which the outcome is occurring was created by him, the rules were defined by him. He's not a dude with a shitty meat computer in his head, he's outside of time and space, as he created those things.

If god doesn't know everything why should we listen to his rules? What gives him any authority?
 
Corbin Dallas Multipass dijo:
Hey I'm not the one who wrote "Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent" in the bible. That's judeo-christian god. If you're talking about a god with incomplete knowledge you're not talking about that one. God can do ANYTHING can't he?

He made EVERYTHING. How can he not know the outcome? The universe within which the outcome is occurring was created by him, the rules were defined by him. He's not a dude with a shitty meat computer in his head, he's outside of time and space, as he created those things.

If god doesn't know everything why should we listen to his rules? What gives him any authority?
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authority is not derived from knowledge, not matter how you look at it. Authority can come from:
1. Making people want to follow, for example with promises of an afterlife.
2. power to crush dissent, or making people believe you can crush dissent, by sending people to hell for example.
3 A mix of the two

None of those require any knowledge, or any real extraordinary power. See cult leader successes for reference.
I mean it's quite obvious the bible could just be propaganda for a lesser demon or whatever. How would we know?
 
DNJACK dijo:
authority is not derived from knowledge, not matter how you look at it. Authority can come from:
1. Making people want to follow, for example with promises of an afterlife.
2. power to crush dissent, or making people believe you can crush dissent, by sending people to hell for example.
3 A mix of the two

None of those require any knowledge, or any real extraordinary power. See cult leader successes for reference.
I mean it's quite obvious the bible could just be propaganda for a lesser demon or whatever. How would we know?
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Uhh....

Yeah, the bible is not true. I suppose it could be not true, but there is magical stuff, just different magical stuff than it says there is. That's a fun theory I guess, like Satan is actually the good guy but god's got a better PR department.

But if you're talking from the point of view that the bible is the true account of god's will or whatever, then god knew exactly what he was doing, because the bible makes it clear he can't not know exactly what he's doing.
 
I've always seen God as a projection of what humans ultimately desire in themselves; most notably: the desire for ultimate power. I don't think it is a coincidence that the gods people worship always end up reflecting the preoccupations and the prejudices of the people who worship them, I see it as a simple manifestation of the human super-ego at work.
 
The idea of any God being real should be terrifying, in a way that we as humans don't' really experience atm. The existence of a divine being immediately changes our place in the universe and our very identity. If any god is real, then we are probably somewhere between how we view a lesser animal that we are fond of(yet is obvious separate from us) or insects. If I may borrow from Lovecraft, chances are our perception of an actual deity might actually cause us to lose our minds or otherwise alter us. There's even a bit in the OT where Moses briefly views a portion of God, and it physically changes him for the rest of his life.

I guess my main point is any God is scary because however benign they may be, what you think about fairness/right or wrong is largely inconsequential. At the end of it all, what they decide matter more then whatever grandiose machinations man concocts.
 
The "gods" originally it was a term for someone that had become enlightened having a god mind now any God that you will hear of that has rules and regulations is a man made God there is a all creator that created everything including the beginning but then Man created deities Good and Evil the concept of a fall and sin and Holiness in all those details that go with it. You can find the meaning to life in life you can find the purpose of Man by studying life you can find the goal to achieve by studying life and you can get a glimpse at the next chapter when you leave this world by studying life you just have to know how to look for The Echoes as I called them where it can be similar identical or complete opposite but still related what shows a resemblance in characteristics of the first happening.

What people fail to realize is every terrible and great thing that was ever done in this world was done by the hands of a man

Or men but either they were convinced their God wanted them to do it or they were trying to prevent somebody else's god from doing something

either way at the end of the day it was just human hands and nothing else but we reason ourselves out of it with delusion and say it was a God that did it to take the blame off of us.
 
MiyaEL dijo:
The "gods" originally it was a term for someone that had become enlightened having a god mind now any God that you will hear of that has rules and regulations is a man made God there is a all creator that created everything including the beginning but then Man created deities Good and Evil the concept of a fall and sin and Holiness in all those details that go with it. You can find the meaning to life in life you can find the purpose of Man by studying life you can find the goal to achieve by studying life and you can get a glimpse at the next chapter when you leave this world by studying life you just have to know how to look for The Echoes as I called them where it can be similar identical or complete opposite but still related what shows a resemblance in characteristics of the first happening.

What people fail to realize is every terrible and great thing that was ever done in this world was done by the hands of a man

Or men but either they were convinced their God wanted them to do it or they were trying to prevent somebody else's god from doing something

either way at the end of the day it was just human hands and nothing else but we reason ourselves out of it with delusion and say it was a God that did it to take the blame off of us.
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Holy motherfucking shit, look at that. Paragraph breaks! Did you do that just for me?

That said, you've got to work on more clearly organizing your thoughts. That first big block is a mess, and no matter how hard I try, it makes no sense at all.

I guess your final conclusion is god isn't real, just something humans invented to blame stuff on? Not a terribly unique take, but probably accurate. But I don't know what all that shit about "The next chapter" is supposed to mean, or "The Echoes" as you call them..

For reals here, not even trying to troll you, some of your writing looks like that of a person with Schizophrenia. You're taking grandiose importance on yourself on this matter, "you just have to know how to look for The Echoes as I called them where it can be similar identical or complete opposite but still related what shows a resemblance in characteristics of the first happening."

It sounds like you're searching for, and more worryingly, finding patterns in things which don't exist, and assigning importance to them. Do you find yourself having repetitive and stressful thoughts like this often? Because, for real, if you are you would be doing yourself a favor by seeing a therapist and possibly getting some medication.

Or, perhaps I'm just reading too much into the hurried words of a teenager or something. I hope so.
 
Religion: It is for the naive, gullible and autistic. Tell a Japanese in 1945 that god existed and he will show you 3 balls and an extra breast. (Maybe this is where the tranny movement started)!
 
The way I see it, all the supposed proofs for the existence of God are too weak to actually prove Its existence.

There are many ways to conceive of the universe as without the necessity of even a creator, such as the world being eternal or self-generated.

The multiverse, if it exists, would similarly obviate the need for a creator, as the overwhelming majority of multiverse models require it to be eternal in nature.

Then again, one could imagine a multiverse that is infinite, yet still created by a creator that exists above it.
 
We cannot even grasp the definition of a deity, asking if one is real is pointless because of that.

This entire concept is the result of self-awarness, the idea of eternity/death and our egos combined in a generational memetic clusterfuck as old as our species.

The proper way to attempt to answer this question is by putting our ego aside by relizing we'll soon stop exisitng and then admitting we won't be part of anything bigger just because we wanna feel special.

Even if there was either an afterlife, reicarnation or "soul recycling" as some might believe (which by themselves are already a huge stretch), even then this wouldn't be "us" but segmented leftovers of whatehver our former selves were composed of """""beyond matter""""" since the memories, experiences and character that define us as individuals and our beloved consciousness will rot away when we expire and there's more than enough scientific facts to know this certainly (Just read how memories work and brain funcion overall).

Then after we stop self-inserting ourselves on a divine fan-fiction, we can realize that even multiversal omnipotence is too low of a concept for divinity and still get trapped in an infinite conceptual vortex.


tl;dr: We can't even know what is a "god" so it's pointless to think if one exists but we still do like tards because of our ego.
 
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