Is happiness internal or external?

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Okay... I know this probably isn't an either/or question, or even a question that necessarily has a real answer. I'm just going to sperg into the void and see if the void spergs back.

There's plenty of studies, philosophy, religion, folk wisdom, etc, that tells us that you can't define your happiness by external conditions. Ultimately, what we can control is ourselves. There are societal forces bigger than us that we can't do much about. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 'twas ever thus.

So find happiness in yourself. Change your attitude. Enjoy the small things. Work, family, friends, good food and drink. Maybe religion or some form of self-help pseudo religion. Hope for justice in the next life, because you won't get it in this one.

I'm not saying this philosophy is necessarily wrong. However.

This is exactly what I would tell people if I was at the levers of wealth propaganda and wanted to maintain my power. I would continue to pursue obscene wealth while telling the peasants that money doesn't matter. Keep your head down, don't rock the boat, be grateful that you're even alive.

The commies may have been onto something when talking about societal conditions. They would define those conditions as purely material, which I absolutely wouldn't. External conditions can be material, but they can also be political, social, spiritual, and much more besides. Where I think they may be right is the lack of an individual solution.

Uncle Ted made this point as well. Make conditions intolerable, then dope the unwashed masses with drugs and propaganda for being unhappy with their slavery.

Blame the individual. Skill issue. Git gud. Grind. Hustle. Practice mindfulness in your Amazen Meditation Booth™ while you piss in a bottle.

Are we sure we wouldn't be happier if the wealth was spread around just a little more? If we had a 4 day work week? If we had a realistic prospect of home ownership? Do you just roll the dice and hope you're one of the lucky ones? Or at some point do we as a society decide that enough is enough, and do something drastic?

I do not advocate violence, for both moral and practical reasons. Before you talk about flipping the table, ask yourself whether the next game would be better. I doubt it.

But where does that leave us?

 

[herefortheactualthreads]

wealth doesnt solve all of your problems, but most of them.

going to the gym helps out mentally, lifting heavy stone making sad head voices quiet.

having hobbies or goals in life keep you busy and occupied.

everyone has their own meaning of happiness, everyone has to find their happiness themselves, whether its from within or outside sources.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

Good habits keep someone in a good mood more than anything else from my experience. As long as there is some measure of progress somewhere that a person can look forward to they are generally content. That said, of course external factors can affect your outlook.

Or at some point do we as a society decide that enough is enough, and do something drastic?

The government could blatantly be grinding people into hamburger meat while harvesting their organs and there still wouldn't be a civil war.

But where does that leave us?

A slow decline until society becomes so dysfunctional that we can no longer adequately manage supply chains, followed by billions of people starving and the future looking like the bronze age would be my bet. Probably in a few centuries.

 

[Chilson]

Its to a degree both. You need to put in the work externally to achieve internal happiness. Its all meaningless if you don't have the internal drive to do the external work. Which can come from a variety of internal and external conditions and sources.

Its why you see all these miserable nepo-babies who remain miserable despite having every creature comfort possible. They lack the internal drive to put in the work externally due to being coddled all their lives. There are also people born wealthy who are very happy because they were simply born with the internal drive to go out and do the external work.

The outcome changes based on the person, but how they got there is universal.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

My last GF was one of those women who wanted 2 things in life:
1. Something else
2. More

The line she needed to cross to be happy was always 6 months ahead of where she currently was in life.
No matter how well life was going, she was always unhappy. It was a rough relationship.

If you're always chasing the carrot on a stick, it doesn't matter what the external factors are, you will never achieve happiness.

As the lyrics to the old song go:
LOVE THE LIFE YOU LIVE AND YOU CAN LIVE THE LIFE YOU LOVE.

 

[We Are The Witches]

and do something drastic

Like what?

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

In the context of what everyone else said so far, I think it's not controversial to say that one's internal state matters, external conditions matter, and neither by itself explains why someone ends up satisfied or not.
Things get more troublesome when you're moving from describing the state of affairs to asking "what should be done about it?"

Noticing that certain conditions make people worse off does not tell you, by itself, what should change, who decides that, or what trade-offs you're willing to accept to get there.

If we had a 4 day work week? If we had a realistic prospect of home ownership?

This here, for instance.
These are not just "more happiness" buttons you can push. They change incentives, pricing, and who bears which costs. Some people benefit, some people lose out, and effects don't stay neatly contained.
So you end up needing a principle that separates "this condition affects people" from "this condition should be forcibly changed at scale"
Without that, it's easy to bounce between two unsatisfying positions (telling people to just fix their mindset / trying to engineer outcomes externally without a clear limit)

And I think this is why you're feeling stuck. The descriptive part is solid, but the decision rule for what follows just isn't there

 

[grump]

This is exactly what I would tell people if I was at the levers of wealth propaganda and wanted to maintain my power. I would continue to pursue obscene wealth while telling the peasants that money doesn't matter. Keep your head down, don't rock the boat, be grateful that you're even alive

yep, the idea that happiness is entirely internal is cope. Maybe it can be true for some masochist with high willpower but it will be a heck of a lot more natural to actually solve the external things that are making you unhappy. On the other hand there are in fact things you can't reasonably control and ways you can be unhappy no matter what. Its telling what you can solve externally and what you should solve internally thats the central issue.

 

[rel=alternate]

I don't think you can have one without the other.

Happiness is a combination of the two. Any way you want to look at it, it is. Even assuming your happy version of external is not validation but isolation, it's still part of the equation.

 

[Sneaky lurker]

I think happiness is irrelevant and shouldn't be pursued directly.

My last GF was one of those women who wanted 2 things in life:
1. Something else
2. More

The line she needed to cross to be happy was always 6 months ahead of where she currently was in life.
No matter how well life was going, she was always unhappy. It was a rough relationship.

If you're always chasing the carrot on a stick, it doesn't matter what the external factors are, you will never achieve happiness.

As the lyrics to the old song go:
LOVE THE LIFE YOU LIVE AND YOU CAN LIVE THE LIFE YOU LOVE.

Weren't you defending chibi reviews? Was your girlfriend 9?
Maybe she just wanted to play with dolls, dude

 

[Levi]

I believe happiness is directly correlated to comfort so it would be internal, while excitement being tide to happiness is much shorter lived as external.

 

[No-Eyed Square Guy]

"Happiness" is comfort—being surrounded by the necessary.

Extrapolate as you like.

 

[Margo Martindale]

There is a concept called the Locus on Control, meaning that you choose whether you focus on hapiness from within or without. To some extent we all do a bit of both.

 

[Do Not Touch Me Pls]

It needs to be both.

 

[DumbDude43]

99% external. everyone who is trying to convince you (and himself) that happiness is internal is just copemaxxing.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I think happiness is irrelevant

Irrelevant to what?

 

[Attempt Turd]

wealth doesnt solve all of your problems, but most of them.

going to the gym helps out mentally, lifting heavy stone making sad head voices quiet.

having hobbies or goals in life keep you busy and occupied.

everyone has their own meaning of happiness, everyone has to find their happiness themselves, whether its from within or outside sources.

I came from poverty and had very little for a long time. It forced me to learn to budget, repair stuff and make do. Being so poor as to have to constantly think about money and try to scrounge a few cents is an impediment to happiness.

Money doesn't make you happy but it sure does help in not being sad/worried. A sudden expense is not a life altering thing that will make waves for months/years it's just bad luck let's think about something else.

Lifting makes the valleys much shallower. When you are lifting your highs doesn't go much higher but the lowest low you get while lifting is far above the lows when you are sedentary. It also gives you energy to do more fun stuff.

You gave solid advice that would sound glib to myself in my youth but it's the simple truth.

 

[Otterly]

It’s a bit of both. Your attitude to what life throws at you is key. Circumstances do affect you, but your reaction to them is vital. Some people have learned or are able to manage this better than others
What’s difficult is evolving enough to have that kind of mentality. I am certainly not there. I’m quite melancholic- I am trying hard not to be

 

[Cherry Eyed Hamster]

Both. I believe happiness is easily influenced internally by external factors. There are several countries with higher levels of poverty and lower standard quality of living that cite higher rates of happiness than the United States because of the climate and the cohesiveness of the culture.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

Money makes anyone happy so I'd say its mostly external factors.